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Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 8:17:58 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I wonder why some people question another person's patriotism because they stand true to their religious ideals. That never made sense to me...


http://www.wbez.org/story/indiana-college-says-no-national-anthem-88605




You’ll no doubt be hearing a lot of "The Star Spangled Banner" during this weekend’s Fourth of July parades and ceremonies. For some people, it’s the sound track of national loyalty.

But one small private college in North Central Indiana is pulling the national anthem from its sporting events.

It says the anthem doesn’t fit its religious outlook.

Critics of that decision are calling the college unpatriotic.

snip

And what’s happening there, or rather, what’s not happening, is causing a stir!

FOX NEWS CLIP: Meanwhile the national anthem is banned in Goshen College in Northern Indiana. Normally they play the Star-Spangled Banner at its sporting events. But now, they’ve nixed it from all sporting events because they say it goes against the school’s pacifist principals.

That’s a commentator on FOX News.

FOX NEWS CLIP: So, they’re going against what American stands for.

Not surprisingly, that’s not how Goshen College President James Brenneman sees the school’s recent decision to stop playing the national anthem.

"It was never about banning anything it was just something we didn’t do as part of our religious heritage," Brenneman said.



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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 8:28:25 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		I am kinda tired of that song myself.    America the beautiful would be better. 

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 8:53:41 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Are you sure that that college isn't in CA..?

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:03:35 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		I know a lot of Californian vets that would kick your ass for insinuating that Californians are less patriotic than other people.... I would especially like to see you talk that nonsense in a military town.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:16:02 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Yes to fight against what they thought they were fighting for. Makes sense to me.

T^T

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:16:39 PM   
kat321


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Status: offline 		Now comes the interesting question:

If freedom of religion is an important American value, and this private religious college affiliated with the Mennonite Church has decided to exercise it's doctrine in this manner, why would anyone who holds American values dear dare complain?  Which trumps in this scenario, the ideology of American patriotism or the values put forth in the Constitution?

Goshen College Mission Statement: 
Goshen College is a liberal arts college dedicated to the development of informed, articulate, sensitive, responsible Christians. As a ministry of the Mennonite Church, we seek to integrate Christian values with educational, social and professional life. As a community of faith and learning, we strive to foster personal, intellectual, spiritual and social growth in every person. We view education as a moral activity that produces servant-leaders for the church and the world. (taken from http://www.goshen.edu)

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:19:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		I am not complaining, it is their first amendment right to sing whatever they like.

I think the Fox News drones parrot whatever nonsense their flag waving audience will like

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:20:16 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

FOX NEWS CLIP: So, they’re going against what American stands for.


I believe the asshole has it exactly backwards. Which of course is typical for Fox News; they don't know what America stands for any more than a chipmunk knows how a carburetor works.


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:28:56 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321

Now comes the interesting question:

If freedom of religion is an important American value... why would anyone who holds American values dear dare complain?

Just because you're free to believe whatever you like doesn't mean you're free to do whatever you like. I'd more than just "complain" if some religious nut's faith required him to sacrifice a cat twice a month.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/2/2011 9:35:00 PM >

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:29:56 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It says the anthem doesn’t fit its religious outlook.

Maybe they could sing a nice Christian song instead, like Onward Christian Soldiers.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/2/2011 9:41:39 PM >

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:38:41 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I am kinda tired of that song myself. America the beautiful would be better.


How Nice for you... I happen to think it's a healthy reminder of how we BECAME a country.
  At the same time I respect the fact that Mennonites put God before country as something at the core of their culture and religion
http://youtu.be/MH8ObibNCoo






Attachment (1)

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:43:02 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It says the anthem doesn’t fit its religious outlook.

Maybe they could sing a nice Christian song instead, like Onward Christian Soldiers.

K.




I wonder if that's in their repertoire. It didn't make it into a lot of modern hymnals.

But seriously, there's always "America the Beautifuk" or various other options.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/2/2011 9:48:53 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

I respect the fact that Mennonites put God before country

I don't respect that at all. It's not about country. It's about principles and ideals, the very ones that enable them to practice their religion freely. To place your personal religious views above those principles and ideals is to adopt exactly the same stance toward them as that being promoted by the Christian Right.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/2/2011 10:14:57 PM >

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 5:56:28 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

I respect the fact that Mennonites put God before country

I don't respect that at all. It's not about country. It's about principles and ideals, the very ones that enable them to practice their religion freely. To place your personal religious views above those principles and ideals is to adopt exactly the same stance toward them as that being promoted by the Christian Right.

K.




I put my ideals before my country, whether personal or religious, morals or ethics. But then again, I could give a rat's ass about patriotism, either.


Here is the problem with the religious right, it isn't that they have their own ideals they live by, it is that they want force the rest of us to live by them too


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:29:58 AM   
imperatrixx


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quote:

I don't respect that at all. It's not about country. It's about principles and ideals, the very ones that enable them to practice their religion freely. To place your personal religious views above those principles and ideals is to adopt exactly the same stance toward them as that being promoted by the Christian Right.


Not even. They are making a personal decision not to sing the national anthem, not trying to ban it legally.

To me they are respecting those principles and ideals more than the people criticizing them, because they are actually making use of those principles instead of trying to shame others who have internalized them. Especially over a song.

If they were selling US secrets to a foreign Christian theocracy we'd have a problem, but not wanting to sing a song? Please.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 7:15:19 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Maybe they just can't hit the high notes.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 7:45:43 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
FOX NEWS CLIP: So, they’re going against what American stands for.


So FOX thinks America stands for war?


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 7:47:45 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Kind of a stretch there, fl.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 7:51:48 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

If they were selling US secrets to a foreign Christian theocracy we'd have a problem, but not wanting to sing a song? Please.

Here's the problem. I was commenting on the idea in the statement I was responding to, not what you want to pretend my post addressed. The clue was the included quote about putting God before country. See how that works now?

Thanks.

K.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 9:06:26 AM   
imperatrixx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Here's the problem. I was commenting on the idea in the statement I was responding to, not what you want to pretend my post addressed. The clue was the included quote about putting God before country. See how that works now?

Thanks.

K.[/font][/size]


Sorry, I just assumed that you were replying to that statement within the context of this thread, since the quote you replied to about Mennonites putting God before country most likely had something to do with the OP about the Mennonite college placing its religious outlook over the national anthem.

If you were just comparing some random theoretical Mennonites with the religious right, I apologize, but you really shouldn't go off topic like that.

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