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Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 3:42:18 PM

imperatrixx

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I saw someone in another thread write that his "greatness" should be remembered. I asked what made him a great President, but I want to open this up to everyone in general.

I was born in 1983, I don't remember the Reagan presidency, but what immediately came to my mind is Iran-Contra, and skyrocketing national debt. Reagan also started the "war on drugs" and the amount we've spent in the past 3 decades on trials, incarcerations, food and housing of prisoners convicted of non-violent drug crimes shows the financial toll, the meteorical rise in power of organized crime in urban areas shows the human toll.

So to me, our 40th President is the guy who sold guns to terrorists, conspired to keep US citizens as hostages so they would be released only during his inauguration, secretly broke a US embargo to sell weapons to Iran, began the costliest "war" we've ever had, tripled the national debt...I mean, there are a lot of Presidents who you simply can't say were "great" but he actually seems kind of terrible.

So for those of you who think he is great, why do you think so? What did he do that would be considered great?

And please note...I want to hear why you think he's great, not niggling about why what I listed isn't so bad as I think or whatever...this isn't the "why Reagan isn't quite so awful" thread, it's genuinely wondering why some people see him as a great President. Or even a good one. What did he do that was good? How did he help the US? What positive results did his administration deliver?

None of that partisan trash about him being a Republican either...I can't stand that shit, I want actual facts and discussion about the Reagan Presidency, not partisan snipes about Reagan's political party that their author thinks are "clever."

I hate that I have to specify that. But please. I would appreciate it.

Ok go.

Post #: 1

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 3:46:28 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx
So for those of you who think he is great, why do you think so? What did he do that would be considered great?

In the case of most of the posters who make excuses for him, that he isn't Carter.
(Why an oil crisis that was more Ford's work and a botched hostage rescue makes Carter inherently worse than Reagan has never been made clear, mind.)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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(in reply to imperatrixx)

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RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 3:51:00 PM

Tantriqu

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On the 'scary' list, don't forget he had Alzheimer's in office, and his decisions were deeply influenced by his wife's astrologer. What could be worse? Oh, right, George W.

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RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 4:01:26 PM

Aneirin

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I was born in '67, but up until the last few years I couldn't give a fuck for politics, but Reagan was Luck and Flaws regular guest of honour and it was there that I knew him, but I remember his election to the presidency and remember the saying at the time that America was so great, that even an actor could become the leader, but then as an actor Reagan was well versed in being told what to do, perhaps more than any since.

Are presidents told what to do, well who knows, but how does one explain promises made at election time, never realised, Obama being very much like that feckless waste that we have Deputy PM Clegg who is reknowned for promises made and later back tracked on once in power. I still await Obama's riddance of dependancy on foreign energy as he promised, and that because whatever America does the UK soon follows.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Post #: 4

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 4:01:42 PM

imperatrixx

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Wow...the astrologer thing I didn't know, that's pretty awful.

< Message edited by imperatrixx -- 7/5/2011 4:02:38 PM >

(in reply to Tantriqu)

Post #: 5

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 4:06:19 PM

Moonhead

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For some reason, his apologists on here don't like to dwell on that one. It's pretty well documented, though. Google Joan Quigley.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to imperatrixx)

Post #: 6

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 4:10:23 PM

Aneirin

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So if Reagan was mentally deficient due to Alzheimers, what use was he as a leader ?

That is of course if the elected leader is the actual leader.

But, it begs the question, is there any psychometric testing for people in positions of power, or is that just reserved for the minnions applying for jobs.

How does one know what they elect, for anyone could be a smiling knife.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 7

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 4:25:25 PM

MasterG2kTR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So if Reagan was mentally deficient due to Alzheimers, what use was he as a leader ?

Reagan was a puppet leader. George H.W. Bush (George senior) was the guy pulling the strings on Reagan. What most people fail to remember is that before becoming the VP, Bush was the head of the CIA. That made him privy to a plethora of information that even Presidents don't have access to.

Oh and gee, who was it that followed Reagan as POTUS?....oh yeah....G.H.W. Bush! Go figure....

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 8

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 4:43:43 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Wow...the astrologer thing I didn't know, that's pretty awful.

His foreign policy decisions were not influenced by astrology. After he was shot Nancy Reagan heard that an astrologer predicted it. She enlisted the help of an astrologer to prevent him from getting shot again. In other words, his travel plans and scheduled events were sometimes influenced by astrology, nothing more.

I can't stand the Reagans, but to be fair, if he were my husband and I believed some supernatural thing could prevent him from coming to harm, I would employ it too. She was only guilty of loving and worrying about her husband... which isn't evil in my mind

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Post #: 9

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 4:50:59 PM

imperatrixx

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Ahh that's not that bad then. I mean, if Caesar had listened to his wife's dreams and the astrologer in the crowd, he wouldn't have been stabbed a whole bunch of times. At least according to Shakespeare.

;)

And yeah, Nancy Reagan's pretty off limits in this thread, I'm not into bashing politician's families.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 10

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 5:24:14 PM

Tantriqu

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Not quite. According to 'Time', Nancy had been into astrology since the 60's, but became obsessive and obstructionist after the assassination attempt: "no presidential public appearance was slated without Quigley's say-so."
Meanwhile, any political and security expert could have 'foretold' an attempt on a president's life [eyeroll].
SCIENCE!

(in reply to imperatrixx)

Post #: 11

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 5:25:20 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

So if Reagan was mentally deficient due to Alzheimers, what use was he as a leader ?

He did what he was fucking told to do -- just like Presidents are supposed to do.

See Also: Abraham Zapruder

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Post #: 12

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 5:36:26 PM

EternalHoH

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You forgot the beginning of 30 years of Wall Street government. The S&L bailouts from Reagan's start of our deregulation slide was only the beginning of Wall Street's fleecing of the taxpayer, only the beginning of the great transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

One good thing about Nancy Reagan, she HATED Don Regan, and SHE was ultimately behind his departure.

< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 7/5/2011 5:39:48 PM >

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Post #: 13

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 5:41:14 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Not quite. According to 'Time', Nancy had been into astrology since the 60's, but became obsessive and obstructionist after the assassination attempt: "no presidential public appearance was slated without Quigley's say-so."
Meanwhile, any political and security expert could have 'foretold' an attempt on a president's life [eyeroll].
SCIENCE!

snip

"I advise them when to be careful," she says. "I don't make decisions for them." It was on the basis of her readings, claims Quigley, that Reagan chose January 1984 as the time to announce his bid for re-election. "An astrologer just picks the best possible time to do something that someone else has already planned to do," she adds. "It is like being in the ocean: you should go with the waves, not against them."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,967410,00.html#ixzz1RHRkGwgx

Here is another Time article.

The secret: First Lady Nancy Reagan's reliance on a San Francisco astrologer to determine the timing of the President's every public move. This was more than a charming eccentricity shared with the 50 million or so other Americans who, casually or in dead earnest, look to the alignment of the stars for guidance. As White House chief of staff for two years, before he was forced to resign in February 1987, Regan was in a position to see how the First Lady's faith in the astrologer's pronouncements wreaked havoc with her husband's schedule. At times, he writes, the most powerful man on earth was a virtual prisoner in the White House.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,967389,00.html#ixzz1RHSM1WaI

This is all from one source, which he never claimed that Reagan used an astrologer's advice for policy... it has been said he overstated the influence of astrology in planning trips, etc. As far as Nancy Reagan believing in astrology... big fucking deal, I see no difference between that and believing that some guy who lived 2000 years ago was resurrected from the dead and absolved humanity of their sins, etc... as our current president believes.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Tantriqu)

Post #: 14

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 5:45:36 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

One good thing about Nancy Reagan, she HATED Don Regan, and SHE was ultimately behind his departure.

Which was why he exposed the astrology thing, he had a bone to pick with her and was out to humiliate her

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to EternalHoH)

Post #: 15

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 5:55:31 PM

Politesub53

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One thing I will give him full credit for is starting meaningful talks on reducing nuclear weapons.

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RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 6:10:17 PM

kat321

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Reagan was the soundbite President. He made the nation feel good by winnowing difficult concepts down to the simplest of terms making the average Joe feel as if he could decipher the most complex and delicate issues of foreign policy and finance.

It is up to you whether or not you see this a good thing.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 17

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 6:30:03 PM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

One thing I will give him full credit for is starting meaningful talks on reducing nuclear weapons.

I can't quite remember, was that before or after the failure of the Star Wars project ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 18

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 6:55:36 PM

imperatrixx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

One thing I will give him full credit for is starting meaningful talks on reducing nuclear weapons.

That's actually something I approve of :)

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Post #: 19

RE: Ronald Reagan - 7/5/2011 7:03:42 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Wow...the astrologer thing I didn't know, that's pretty awful.

His foreign policy decisions were not influenced by astrology. After he was shot Nancy Reagan heard that an astrologer predicted it. She enlisted the help of an astrologer to prevent him from getting shot again. In other words, his travel plans and scheduled events were sometimes influenced by astrology, nothing more.

I can't stand the Reagans, but to be fair, if he were my husband and I believed some supernatural thing could prevent him from coming to harm, I would employ it too. She was only guilty of loving and worrying about her husband... which isn't evil in my mind

Yes, because love excuses stupidity.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 20

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