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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/8/2011 10:14:49 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here so sorry if I don't respond to most of your points.

If you look past all my snark that was aimed back at crazy, all I was really trying to get at with my stuff on the definition of violence is that I, personally, draw a distinction between physical force used as discipline and violence, much in the same way that the BDSM community as a whole makes a distinction between S&M and violence.



It wasn't what you said. If the other background from the OP, about how "calling her out on it" would cause him "to slap her a couple of times" and how things that weren't about "them" were trivial to him that you seemed to have missed that was the major problem.

Missing important points in an OP is something that happens a lot around here. Either a person sees only the BDSM aspect and dismisses the other important statements such as those above, or they only see the statements above and miss the BDSM aspect.

In my opinion, the above supercedes all BDSM aspect and screams immaturity. I don't see dominance as "it's all about me and nothing else," as something anyone should ever exhibit.

So while your original post may have been good advice in the general sense, those key points about the "why" of the OP's frustration (including her parents having more control than him), along with you going on the attack when you ignored those issues does not look good for you. I stand by my opinion that the OP is acting like an immature asshole.

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 5:36:48 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

Despite these cons, I do come from a family that has a long history of using physical discipline in raising children



So what you're saying is that when a kid pushes the parent's buttons, it is appropriate for the parent to lose control and start slapping the kid around.

In my book, that teaches nothing except that the parent is a bad one who needs anger management.

I'm not saying that I've never felt the desire to slap a teen aged boy into next week. The difference is that I have sufficient self awareness to acknowledge said desire without doing so. And to sit said boy down and inform him that I will not be pushed like that. And then presented him with an alternative which was much more unpleasant for him if his behavior did not change. It changed and without me losing control and showing myself to be an abusive twit who could be controlled by a kid.


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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 7:22:15 AM   
Tristan


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In my opinion, the above supercedes all BDSM aspect and screams immaturity. I don't see dominance as "it's all about me and nothing else," as something anyone should ever exhibit.

So while your original post may have been good advice in the general sense, those key points about the "why" of the OP's frustration (including her parents having more control than him), along with you going on the attack when you ignored those issues does not look good for you. I stand by my opinion that the OP is acting like an immature asshole.


Don't forget that IntimateDarkness is young and inexperienced.  He appeared to very sincerely be asking advice on a topic that is very complex and difficult to navigate.  He also appeared to very honestly admit his mistakes.  I believe this is to be respected and encouraged.  I do not think that calling him an "immature asshole" is warranted.  By using labels like this, we are discouraging the people who most need advice from posting here, which, I believe, happens often.

Establishing the boundaries of a D/s relationship is difficult.  There seems to often be a general perception that the dominant needs to always be in control.  Understanding when to give up control is important.  This may be a more important skill than knowing how to take control.  No one is going to get it all right on the first attempt.  Hell, no one is going to always get this right in every situation.  I know that I do not get it right every time so I'm going to have compassion and understanding for those who also do not always get this right.

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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 9:03:06 AM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IntimateDarkness

We've talked about slapping and how she like's to be slapped if she gets out of line. I like to slap my submissive/slave and I've done so but only in the bedroom.

So now I just want to make sure if I do something that's hurtful like a slap, its not received in the same way.

I feel that the best way to incorporate any face slapping in this relationship is to first
discuss the relationship boundaries so she is aware of when she is out of line.

While her sassy attitude to you may appear to have crossed a line, in her opinion,
it may just have been her reacting in her usual manner. It would not be fair for you
to slap her for it if you both didn't first agree to this being a forbidden behavior.

Work more on establishing the behaviors you want her to exhibit, and there should be
no worry as to how she perceives any physical reprimand in the future.

_____________________________

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(in reply to IntimateDarkness)
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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 10:17:20 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

Despite these cons, I do come from a family that has a long history of using physical discipline in raising children



So what you're saying is that when a kid pushes the parent's buttons, it is appropriate for the parent to lose control and start slapping the kid around.

In my book, that teaches nothing except that the parent is a bad one who needs anger management.

I'm not saying that I've never felt the desire to slap a teen aged boy into next week. The difference is that I have sufficient self awareness to acknowledge said desire without doing so. And to sit said boy down and inform him that I will not be pushed like that. And then presented him with an alternative which was much more unpleasant for him if his behavior did not change. It changed and without me losing control and showing myself to be an abusive twit who could be controlled by a kid.



No, not at all. That is not even close to what I am trying to express.

In fact, everything I have said has been the exact opposite. I've repeatedly said that physical discipline cannot be done out of anger or a loss of self control.

And on that note, I am done with the discussion.

I think we are all just reading what we want to read, including myself and it's not going anywhere.


< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 7/9/2011 10:28:12 AM >

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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 11:06:21 AM   
Tristan


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In fact, everything I have said has been the exact opposite. I've repeatedly said that physical discipline cannot be done out of anger or a loss of self control.


When I was about 4 years old, I kept running into the street.  My mom told me a several times to stay out of the street, and even told me why it was important that I stay out of the street.  When I continued not to listen, she smacked me.  I remember that smack made me very clearly understand not to go in the street.  I did not feel then nor now that it was an act of violence, and to the contrary, it helped keep me safe from physical harm.  I also do not know how else my mom could have communicated the importance of staying out of the street to me as a 4 year old.  A very clear physical boundary was established with that smack.

In spite of what today's experts say on the subject, I believe there is a very limited number of instances where physical punishment of a child is important, and I agree with DecadentDesire that it should never be done in anger or with a loss of self control.  I would not hesitate to spank a child who was doing something dangerous and refused to listen.  Would I also spank a child who showed physical aggression toward me as in DecadentDesire's example?  Maybe. 

I know my dad would never have tolerated that from me, and that I learned respect and boundaries from him.  Maybe it's all in how we as a child interpret the physical punishment.  In the rare instances that I was spanked as a child, I knew that I had done something very wrong and did not feel I was being unfairly punished.  I knew that I had pushed known and consistent boundaries usually several times.  I can entirely understand that under difference circumstances, I might have felt entirely differently being physically punished as a child.  For that reason, I can understand why child experts tell us never to spank a child.

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 11:27:20 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It wasn't what you said. If the other background from the OP, about how "calling her out on it" would cause him "to slap her a couple of times" and how things that weren't about "them" were trivial to him that you seemed to have missed that was the major problem.

Missing important points in an OP is something that happens a lot around here. Either a person sees only the BDSM aspect and dismisses the other important statements such as those above, or they only see the statements above and miss the BDSM aspect.

In my opinion, the above supercedes all BDSM aspect and screams immaturity. I don't see dominance as "it's all about me and nothing else," as something anyone should ever exhibit.

So while your original post may have been good advice in the general sense, those key points about the "why" of the OP's frustration (including her parents having more control than him), along with you going on the attack when you ignored those issues does not look good for you. I stand by my opinion that the OP is acting like an immature asshole.


See....here's the thing. Your making the assumption that I ignored those "issues" or didn't catch them.

And that's where your wrong. I simply see them in a different light.

When your new and lack confidence in your dominance and authority, it's very common, particularly for male dominants, to attempt to compensate with aggression and unreasonableness, under the misguided notion that this presents a strong front.

I'm seen the scenario before and I've fallen into myself when I was younger.

But when I made that mistake, I was lucky to have a much more experienced dominant to turn to in real life. Instead of telling me how much of an immature asshole I was who had no business being a dominant, he sat me down and explained what I was doing wrong and what I needed to do.

And this is really part of a larger issue on these boards. I've seen time and time again, dominants come here who are fucking up in their relationships and looking for advice, only to have 90% of the population harp on how much of a "failure/loser/asshat/weakling" they are. I mean, does everyone think you learn how to handle a submissive in a relationship by filling out the back of a match book and mailing off for the manual? You learn by being mentored and making mistakes that leave you up to 4am, kicking yourself in the ass.

So...you can keep your opinion. Your entitled to think someone is an immature asshole. And I'm entitled to disagree with that and think your opinion isn't helping or making the world a better place.




< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 7/9/2011 11:41:46 AM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 12:07:40 PM   
IntimateDarkness


Posts: 11
Status: offline 		Update

I took the parents out last night and it went very well. In a sense I decided to go with it with the thought that I was going to treat them just because I wanted to rather then because I wanted a specific outcome. Over these past few days communication is MUCH better then it had been these past two weeks and it's most likely because I was finally able to get a grip and see where the fault lies.

I really appreciate the enthusiasm in this thread. I did take the sound advice offered early on and it was worth it. It really gave me an opportunity to take a step back and see things from multiple points of view. One of the things that stuck out for me, that I had to accept was that any control I have in this relationship is purely situational. So I either had to let go of some of the things I wanted from the relationship, or kiss it all good bye! It was my choice to make. I was either going to let my insecurities get the best of me, or not.

And as for the slapping, that's something I'm going to bring in quite gradually, and I'm leaning more towards keeping it light, like a soft tap on the face and communicating in a very straight forward manner what you want/don't want to have happen, just because it's worked so well in the past with her it felt much more natural and it's been done in a way where an issue is handled immediately. This isn't the end all be all of punishment its just the one that's on topic and I know it can be effective in the proper context.

< Message edited by IntimateDarkness -- 7/9/2011 12:09:39 PM >

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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 12:20:28 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update!

Best of luck to you.

(in reply to IntimateDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 1:43:15 PM   
Tristan


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

And this is really part of a larger issue on these boards. I've seen time and time again, dominants come here who are fucking up in their relationships and looking for advice, only to have 90% of the population harp on how much of a "failure/loser/asshat/weakling" they are. I mean, does everyone think you learn how to handle a submissive in a relationship by filling out the back of a match book and mailing off for the manual? You learn by being mentored and making mistakes that leave you up to 4am, kicking yourself in the ass.


Very well said.  I would just add that being the dominant in a D/s relationship means you are the one who is most likely to F-up, and we all make mistakes at sometime.  I really respect someone who tries to learn from his or her mistakes.  As a dominant, you're the one who is supposed to be in control, and acting upon what you understand to be your submissive's desires.  How easy is it to F that up?  I agree that too often people on these boards are very critical of a male dominant whose made mistakes, but who is also asking for advice.  One of the reasons for discussion on these boards is to learn and to improve one's understanding and skills.

IntimateDarkness - thanks for the update.



(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 1:57:29 PM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IntimateDarkness

Update

I took the parents out last night and it went very well. In a sense I decided to go with it with the thought that I was going to treat them just because I wanted to rather then because I wanted a specific outcome. Over these past few days communication is MUCH better then it had been these past two weeks and it's most likely because I was finally able to get a grip and see where the fault lies.

I really appreciate the enthusiasm in this thread. I did take the sound advice offered early on and it was worth it. It really gave me an opportunity to take a step back and see things from multiple points of view. One of the things that stuck out for me, that I had to accept was that any control I have in this relationship is purely situational. So I either had to let go of some of the things I wanted from the relationship, or kiss it all good bye! It was my choice to make. I was either going to let my insecurities get the best of me, or not.

And as for the slapping, that's something I'm going to bring in quite gradually, and I'm leaning more towards keeping it light, like a soft tap on the face and communicating in a very straight forward manner what you want/don't want to have happen, just because it's worked so well in the past with her it felt much more natural and it's been done in a way where an issue is handled immediately. This isn't the end all be all of punishment its just the one that's on topic and I know it can be effective in the proper context.


Thanks for sharing. That's simply awesome.


_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 3:31:56 PM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IntimateDarkness
I'm wondering if I should just sweep it under the rug or call her out on it when we are together in my house tomorrow. And if I call her out on it, I'm most likely going to slap her once or twice. I could genuinely use some advice because my main purpose is to maintain control and discipline not hurt her out of spite.


The way this is phrased, it's almost like you don't have any control over whether or not you slap her. I would say, raise the issue but don't slap her, simples!

owned xxx

(in reply to IntimateDarkness)
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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 4:35:57 PM   
IntimateDarkness


Posts: 11
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh


quote:

ORIGINAL: IntimateDarkness
I'm wondering if I should just sweep it under the rug or call her out on it when we are together in my house tomorrow. And if I call her out on it, I'm most likely going to slap her once or twice. I could genuinely use some advice because my main purpose is to maintain control and discipline not hurt her out of spite.


The way this is phrased, it's almost like you don't have any control over whether or not you slap her. I would say, raise the issue but don't slap her, simples!

owned xxx


Take a look at this sentence: "I'm going to the park today and if I go I'm most likely going to eat a hot dog." Does it look like this man has no control over whether or not he will be eating hot dog also?

< Message edited by IntimateDarkness -- 7/9/2011 4:36:26 PM >

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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 5:49:39 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristan

Don't forget that IntimateDarkness is young and inexperienced.  He appeared to very sincerely be asking advice on a topic that is very complex and difficult to navigate.  He also appeared to very honestly admit his mistakes.  I believe this is to be respected and encouraged.  I do not think that calling him an "immature asshole" is warranted.  By using labels like this, we are discouraging the people who most need advice from posting here, which, I believe, happens often.



My point had nothing to do with BDSM at all. Anyone in a relationship who states that things going on in their partner's life that don't include them is TRIVIAL is behaving like an immature asshole.

Am I blunt? Yep. Do I have patience for bullshit? Nope. Do I think that just because someone is new, we should coddle them when they make absolutely ridiculous statements like that? Hell no.

Regardless of BDSM or not, anyone who feels they need to slap someone a couple of times to get their point across is not ready to be anyone's "master." Anyone who wants to slap someone around to get through to their partner that HE is now in control, NOT her parents needs a couple whacks upside the head himself.

You think I was too blunt? Don't give a shit about that either. You want to play in the deep end of the pool, you damn well better know how to swim. Yes, he is young. I would have said he same thing to someone who had "been around" for years and made the same statement.

But you can feel free to coddle him all you want.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 7:26:45 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		Good to hear an update and that you are taking a level-headed approach to the situation.

Good luck OP

(in reply to IntimateDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/9/2011 11:06:19 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IntimateDarkness

Update

I took the parents out last night and it went very well. In a sense I decided to go with it with the thought that I was going to treat them just because I wanted to rather then because I wanted a specific outcome. Over these past few days communication is MUCH better then it had been these past two weeks and it's most likely because I was finally able to get a grip and see where the fault lies.

I really appreciate the enthusiasm in this thread. I did take the sound advice offered early on and it was worth it. It really gave me an opportunity to take a step back and see things from multiple points of view. One of the things that stuck out for me, that I had to accept was that any control I have in this relationship is purely situational. So I either had to let go of some of the things I wanted from the relationship, or kiss it all good bye! It was my choice to make. I was either going to let my insecurities get the best of me, or not.

And as for the slapping, that's something I'm going to bring in quite gradually, and I'm leaning more towards keeping it light, like a soft tap on the face and communicating in a very straight forward manner what you want/don't want to have happen, just because it's worked so well in the past with her it felt much more natural and it's been done in a way where an issue is handled immediately. This isn't the end all be all of punishment its just the one that's on topic and I know it can be effective in the proper context.

ID, I am very glad that you came back and offered this update.  It is commendable that you are sticking it out and seeing it through.  It shows a great measure of maturity and dedication. 


_____________________________

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(in reply to IntimateDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/10/2011 8:13:17 AM   
Tristan


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

My point had nothing to do with BDSM at all. Anyone in a relationship who states that things going on in their partner's life that don't include them is TRIVIAL is behaving like an immature asshole.

Am I blunt? Yep. Do I have patience for bullshit? Nope. Do I think that just because someone is new, we should coddle them when they make absolutely ridiculous statements like that? Hell no.

Regardless of BDSM or not, anyone who feels they need to slap someone a couple of times to get their point across is not ready to be anyone's "master." Anyone who wants to slap someone around to get through to their partner that HE is now in control, NOT her parents needs a couple whacks upside the head himself.

You think I was too blunt? Don't give a shit about that either. You want to play in the deep end of the pool, you damn well better know how to swim. Yes, he is young. I would have said he same thing to someone who had "been around" for years and made the same statement.

But you can feel free to coddle him all you want.


Quite possibly the reason so many arguments occur on these boards is that much information is lost in writing about complex emotional issues.  Everyone who responded to this post is reading something differently into the post.  To accurately describe a situation, one would have to write pages (or novels) rather than paragraphs.  For that reason, there are many ways one can read any of these brief individual posts.  I tend to believe it is better to ask the poster for clarification rather than automatically assuming the worst. 

I will leave it to IntimateDarkness to tell us (if he wants) how well you summarized his intents by your statements above.  I read things differently partly because I chose to assume that anyone who appears to sincerely be asking for advice is probably not an "immature asshole".  Yes, this is my interpretation because I believe that an immature asshole is the last person that will ever ask advice let alone honestly own up to mistakes.

No one is asking anyone to cuddle anyone else.  Also, being blunt is fine as long as you are on the right track.  However, it is easy to get off track with the brief nature of discussion board posts.  Nearly everyone who responded to this post did so from a different interpretation of the original post.  You are no more likely to understand IntimateDarkness' intent or situation than anyone else.

Finally and most importantly, labeling someone an "immature asshole" does not create a good learning environment for people to come here for advice. 

< Message edited by Tristan -- 7/10/2011 8:15:02 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/10/2011 10:08:30 AM   
winspiritsbaby


Posts: 141
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IntimateDarkness

Update

I took the parents out last night and it went very well. In a sense I decided to go with it with the thought that I was going to treat them just because I wanted to rather then because I wanted a specific outcome. Over these past few days communication is MUCH better then it had been these past two weeks and it's most likely because I was finally able to get a grip and see where the fault lies.

I really appreciate the enthusiasm in this thread. I did take the sound advice offered early on and it was worth it. It really gave me an opportunity to take a step back and see things from multiple points of view. One of the things that stuck out for me, that I had to accept was that any control I have in this relationship is purely situational. So I either had to let go of some of the things I wanted from the relationship, or kiss it all good bye! It was my choice to make. I was either going to let my insecurities get the best of me, or not.

And as for the slapping, that's something I'm going to bring in quite gradually, and I'm leaning more towards keeping it light, like a soft tap on the face and communicating in a very straight forward manner what you want/don't want to have happen, just because it's worked so well in the past with her it felt much more natural and it's been done in a way where an issue is handled immediately. This isn't the end all be all of punishment its just the one that's on topic and I know it can be effective in the proper context.

Wonderful! I'm glad to see that you actually thought things through and took some of the advice given. The ability to do that will help you in your journey. I am also glad to hear that you have improved communications, that will definitely make things easier. I wish you both lots of luck in this journey and much happiness.

< Message edited by winspiritsbaby -- 7/10/2011 10:09:46 AM >

(in reply to IntimateDarkness)
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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/10/2011 10:40:45 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		Slap that bitch.

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RE: Slap my submissive? - 7/10/2011 11:39:18 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		Yay for you both!!!!!

pam

(in reply to IntimateDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 80
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