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RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 8:32:32 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

CONSERVATIVE estimates of the number of illegals in this country are 20 million and that figure was from '07 or '08. Lots of kids have been born since then.


That's the trouble with just making up your data--it's wrong.

You can huff and puff at these numbers, of course. But the point is, no, conservative estimates are much lower than your figure.

By HOPE YEN
The Associated Press
updated 2/1/2011

WASHINGTON — A new study released Tuesday finds the number of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. last year was roughly 11.2 million, a number virtually unchanged from 2009. In that year, the level of illegal immigration declined for the first time in two decades, dropping 8 percent from 2007, as a sour economy and stepped-up border enforcement made it harder or less desirable for undocumented workers to enter from Mexico.

The number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. labor force also was unchanged last year at 8 million, representing about 5 percent of workers in the U.S., after hitting a peak of 8.4 million in 2007, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center.

quote:

Australia is fighting border battles

Australia illegal immigration is more complex than you describe, with the government setting policies aimed at steering illegals' behavior into the labor force (for good or ill). Here's a short Economist piece about it.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/05/immigration_0


I have responded to these posts repeatedly and I'm going to do it again, here, obviously.  Bear Stearns did a study on the illegal alien population in this country in '07 or '08.  I posted the study on another thread.  Bear Stearns came up with a figure of 20 million and, OF COURSE, an admission that their figure could only be so much of a ballpark because there is no way to really calculate all of the illegals in this country like the small sea of illegal chinese that live underground in NYC....literally underground, that is.

I have asked this question repeatedly also; to comprise the numbers on the illegal alien population within the country?  Do you trust the government that is going to soft-soap the issue because if they told you a really accurate number you would go hunting for your representatives like it was deer season?  Or are you going to trust a once venerable brokerage firm that did the study to determine where they were going to make their money for the next 50 years?  I would trust the brokerage firm.  I DON'T TRUST MY GOVERNMENT, AT THIS POINT, TO TELL ME THE TRUTH ABOUT ANYTHING.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 8:39:36 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

CONSERVATIVE estimates of the number of illegals in this country are 20 million and that figure was from '07 or '08. Lots of kids have been born since then.


That's the trouble with just making up your data--it's wrong.

You can huff and puff at these numbers, of course. But the point is, no, conservative estimates are much lower than your figure.

By HOPE YEN
The Associated Press
updated 2/1/2011

WASHINGTON — A new study released Tuesday finds the number of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. last year was roughly 11.2 million, a number virtually unchanged from 2009. In that year, the level of illegal immigration declined for the first time in two decades, dropping 8 percent from 2007, as a sour economy and stepped-up border enforcement made it harder or less desirable for undocumented workers to enter from Mexico.

The number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. labor force also was unchanged last year at 8 million, representing about 5 percent of workers in the U.S., after hitting a peak of 8.4 million in 2007, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center.

quote:

Australia is fighting border battles

Australia illegal immigration is more complex than you describe, with the government setting policies aimed at steering illegals' behavior into the labor force (for good or ill). Here's a short Economist piece about it.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/05/immigration_0


Let me get this straight, Music, you blast my post and say I am wrong and you cite me to this bullshit article from the Economist to say that Australian immigration isn't as simple as I have stated???  That is extremely disingenuous.  The article doesn't talk about illegal immigration at all, does it?  It talks about Australia's need for populace but it doesn't say how many illegal people are sneaking into a country of only 22 million.  Even if we go by your figure for illegals in this country, if Australia had the same number that you posit are in the U.S., 40% of Austrailia's population would be illegal.  Right?  No...I stand by my point.  You can't compare Australia to the United States when it comes to illegal immigration and the consequences of it for each country.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 8:52:07 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Jesus, man...USE YOUR HEAD!!!  Don't be like DopiGuy, ok?  I'm not the U.S. government that has the money and resources to enforce border security and doesn't.  I live in a city that touts itself as a "Sanctuary City".  Understand?  Do YOU understand what I am saying right now???  So if my Federal Government is going to ignore their responsibility and if my own town is going to ignore the law as well, what do you think, son????  You think I am going to be the bulwark against illegal immigration?  Does that even make sense to you?  I have a 60 yard ditch that has to be dug. THAT is my reality. There are people in my town willing to do it.  The cops drive by and ignore them.  The mayor drives by and ignores them.  There is a court in town but the Judge ignores them too.   And I am supposed to say "well...I don't know whether they are legal or not so I won't hire them and get my ditch dug today for $10.00 per hour and a six pack of beer?  Are you kidding me?  What do you do for a living because it isn't business.


Oh trust me, I understand completely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx
Because there are so many people who are happy to get a tradesman for below market value. The idea of 'hiring American' is going the way of 'buying American' and hiring illegal immigrants is like shopping at Wal Mart. You know you shouldn't but it's sooooooo cheappppppp.


I'd try to bring up something about 'civic responsibility' or mention that you offering money to illegal immigrants is sort of like leaving a big dollop of honey on the table then acting absolutely fucking appalled when you see ants in your house, but I might as well be speaking klingon or something.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:00:21 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Let me get this straight, Music, you blast my post and say I am wrong and you cite me to this bullshit article from the Economist to say that Australian immigration isn't as simple as I have stated??? That is extremely disingenuous.


One trick pony, ain't 'cha.

No, I cited evidence your "conservative estimate" was crap--in fact, 167% higher than reality. If factual corrections are "blasting" your post, imagine if I played your insult game.

The Australia link is a different point, and had you read it for purposes other than self-justification, you'd have noted a new layer, the deliberate use of illegals by manipulating behavior. If the U.S. did this, there'd be outrage. Not the simple matter of preventing illegal immigration when a country is also courting it.

If you don't feel that makes the Australia immigration picture more complicated, then we disagree, and on factual matters.

But then, since you knew you were somehow going to disagree even if I claimed the sun was hot and provided a link, you'd find a way to make it wrong and dishonest.

You're such a silly open book. Find a hobby.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:35:45 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		First, digging a ditch isn't exactly getting a "tradesman" below value.  Ok?  Paying $10.00 per hour is a very fair wage for unskilled labor.

Second, don't talk to me about civic duty.  I pay my taxes and that money is supposed to go to protecting the borders.  If the borders are not going to be enforced, there is not a whole lot I can do about it and so my view narrows to the empire I can control, not what I can't control.   I am going to use whatever labor that is going to take the job.  That is the real world, Imperatrixx. 

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:37:26 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Let me get this straight, Music, you blast my post and say I am wrong and you cite me to this bullshit article from the Economist to say that Australian immigration isn't as simple as I have stated??? That is extremely disingenuous.


One trick pony, ain't 'cha.

No, I cited evidence your "conservative estimate" was crap--in fact, 167% higher than reality. If factual corrections are "blasting" your post, imagine if I played your insult game.

The Australia link is a different point, and had you read it for purposes other than self-justification, you'd have noted a new layer, the deliberate use of illegals by manipulating behavior. If the U.S. did this, there'd be outrage. Not the simple matter of preventing illegal immigration when a country is also courting it.

If you don't feel that makes the Australia immigration picture more complicated, then we disagree, and on factual matters.

But then, since you knew you were somehow going to disagree even if I claimed the sun was hot and provided a link, you'd find a way to make it wrong and dishonest.

You're such a silly open book. Find a hobby.


But you ARE wrong and dishonest, Music.  Go google the bear stearns report.  Even their report is a conservative estimate.  You want to trust the government for your figures when illegal immigration is a hot button issue?  If you do, that makes you pretty stupid...and naive.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:40:11 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Are you unaware of what a "conservative estimate" means? You do understand that would mean the low end? You did realize that the Pew Center's figure is 60% of yours?

This isn't a matter of opinion, but of pure factual definition. Even if the Pew Center is wrong, theirs is the conservative estimate.

And yes, that would make you wrong.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/17/2011 9:41:00 AM >

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:46:24 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Are you unaware of what a "conservative estimate" means? You do understand that would mean the low end? You did realize that the Pew Center's figure is 60% of yours?

This isn't a matter of opinion, but of pure factual definition. Even if the Pew Center is wrong, theirs is the conservative estimate.

And yes, that would make you wrong.





Based on a report from the Pew Hispanic Center.  That is fucking hysterical.  I noticed that you left out the word "Hispanic" in citing the "Pew Center" and you say it is wrong of me to call you dishonest?  Ok, Music.  You go put your faith in the Pew Hispanic Center.  LOLOLOLOL  Sure...they have no interest in under reporting.  Ya. 

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 7/17/2011 9:47:38 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:59:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yet again.....YOU used the phrase "even the most conservative estimate," and placed that at 20 million.

It's not. It's 12 million.

It has nothing at all to do with faith, but rather, with the range of estimates. Whether they are then correct is a separate issue. But the range remains.




(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 10:00:37 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		A complete fucking hypocrite......."I didn't create the problem,I can't fix the problem.....so I will profit from the problem"
Typical Republican.
By the way,do you have any idea what an actual "fair wage" would be? And how one goes about determining that value?
A little hint for you.....one doesn't go about setting the fair wage value.....by hiring illegals who have no recourse but to accept what is offered.HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 10:05:02 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

First, digging a ditch isn't exactly getting a "tradesman" below value.  Ok?  Paying $10.00 per hour is a very fair wage for unskilled labor.

Second, don't talk to me about civic duty.  I pay my taxes and that money is supposed to go to protecting the borders.  If the borders are not going to be enforced, there is not a whole lot I can do about it and so my view narrows to the empire I can control, not what I can't control.   I am going to use whatever labor that is going to take the job.  That is the real world, Imperatrixx. 



Well that's what I don't understand. Your view narrows to the empire you can control...but within that area you turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants because doing so is cheap and convenient. One would imagine that you really don't give a fuck about illegal immigration, because you can't even be bothered to try to keep it out of your own life. You pay your taxes and wash your hands of it, and I'm sure you sit there scratching your head, unable to see that the only fucking reason illegal immigrants come to America is because they know there are people like you willing to give them money.

Maybe it's a good thing the US doesn't have national healthcare. You'd be the type of person who refuses to cover your mouth when you sneeze, and if anyone says anything about it you'd be like fuck you, I pay taxes, it's the government's job to make sure you don't get sick now.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 10:10:12 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yet again.....YOU used the phrase "even the most conservative estimate," and placed that at 20 million.

It's not. It's 12 million.

It has nothing at all to do with faith, but rather, with the range of estimates. Whether they are then correct is a separate issue. But the range remains.




LOLOL whatever.  Pew Hispanic Center!  LOLOLOL That's rich.  Again...cited by YOU, however, as the Pew Center.  In my opinion (which I know means nothing to do you so you don't even have to say it. ) You are part of the problem because you don't want to accept the dimensions of it. The back breaking consequences of MILLIONS of illegals in your country, working and sending their money out of the U.S., getting a plethora of free services, increasing the populations of gangs and prisons....all of the myriad problems that are really helping to ruin this country, you want to ignore them because they don't fit in with your liberal construct.  Well...12 million illegals is more than the population of most of the states in this country.  It is a HUGE number.  It is almost 60% of Australia's total population.  And if Bear Stearns was right, the number would now be in excess of 20 million. 

When I needed cheap labor, it was easy to find; 100's standing around the McDonalds and the baseball field behind it.  Hundreds milling about the train station at the town next door.  Hundreds at the 7/11 and the woods and creek bank bordering the 7/11.  But those guys were eventually run off by the police because they were shitting in the woods. 

Thanks man....resident Taoist....I tend to look at things with a more jaundiced eye.  Know what the funny thing is?  I'm realizing that the more jaundiced you look at things the more frequently you get an accurate picture.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 10:25:45 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Nice change of subject.

Now you're making up my positions for me. Thanks...but you're not doing a very good job of it.

Did you cover straw man in that logic course you slept through?

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 2:33:13 PM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline 		Lockedaway which is it...did you pay the illegals a "very fair wage" or did you hire them because you "needed cheap labor"?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 5:25:30 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Lastly, I am sure I have hired illegal immigrants.  I have hired the guys hanging out at the train station to do grunt work and I doubt they were all American citizens.  But I will tell you this, please don't talk to me about people hiring them for below minimum wage; they won't work for less than $10.00 per hour....cash-ola!



You say "the flow of illegal alien migration into this country must be stopped 100%" and yet you can't be fucked checking the legal status of your employees?

How can you not realize that you are exactly what you are against?


Jesus, man...USE YOUR HEAD!!!  Don't be like DopiGuy, ok?  I'm not the U.S. government that has the money and resources to enforce border security and doesn't.  I live in a city that touts itself as a "Sanctuary City".  Understand?  Do YOU understand what I am saying right now???  So if my Federal Government is going to ignore their responsibility and if my own town is going to ignore the law as well, what do you think, son????  You think I am going to be the bulwark against illegal immigration?  Does that even make sense to you?  I have a 60 yard ditch that has to be dug. THAT is my reality. There are people in my town willing to do it.  The cops drive by and ignore them.  The mayor drives by and ignores them.  There is a court in town but the Judge ignores them too.   And I am supposed to say "well...I don't know whether they are legal or not so I won't hire them and get my ditch dug today for $10.00 per hour and a six pack of beer?  Are you kidding me?  What do you do for a living because it isn't business.


It's far more than just the illegal immigration.  You are cheating the entire fucking system. Paying cash even to a verified legal citizen is fucking bullshit and you know it. No payroll costs, no worker's comp insurance, no liability, no federal match, what the fuck, you are the reason legitimate businesses pay more than necessary. And yes, what I do for a living is run a legitimate business. You don't, not by a longshot. What are you going to do when one of these  guys gets hurt on the site and sues your ass? Because illegal or not, they can and will. Have fun explaining that to the insurance auditors and labor board.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 5:27:15 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Isn't that answer fairly obvious.....what a pair of balls to decry MM as part of the problem for a failure to recognize the size of the problem.....while he lays claim to actually employing illegal labor!
How the fuck did he type this shit and keep a straight face?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 7:01:09 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Perhaps Nicholas D.Kristof is one of our posters....or perhaps it is just coincidence that his op ed piece in today's Sunday Times.dealt with our failing educational system.Kristof cites The Center on Education Policy which reports that 70% of school districts nationwide endured budget cuts....and that 84% anticipate cuts this year !
He further goes on to cite the opinion of two Harvard economists which assert that a prime factor in the US's rise over the last two centuries was it's leadership in educating the masses.At the onset of WWI 1% of Britians young people graduated high school...compared to 9% of Americans.....by the 50% a majority of Americans graduated high school...while only 10 % of British youths did so.This trend started a downward slide in the 70's and that slide continues to this day.
Kristof quotes Derek Bok ,a former Harvard president who once observed "If you think education is expensive,try ignorance"
And just which party leads the cry to further cut education ? Whose candidates have stated that one of the first steps they would take in their zeal to slash government is to do away with the U.S. department of Education.....for in their views,despite the national implications...and the national failure....education is best left to local government,and local government alone.
This is the party that bills itself as "real Americans", which feels patriotism is exclusive to those who think like them.This is the party which trumpets the intrusion of religion into science.
Education...the silver bullet that can address both our poverty issues and our employment issues...this is where they want to cut !!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:45:53 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Lockedaway which is it...did you pay the illegals a "very fair wage" or did you hire them because you "needed cheap labor"?


Both!  I didn't pay my skilled carpenter/mason/electrician/plumber/cabinet maker...yes, he does all of that and more...$55.00 per hour to dig a ditch.  I paid $10.00 per hour to anyone that would take the job...high school kid, the people hanging out at McDonald's, etc.  So...did I use illegal alien labor?  I probably did.  Do I regret it?  No.  Like I said, if my government is not going to protect the borders, I am going to do business on the playing field they have allowed to exist.

Just so you know, however, you can't rent an apartment from me without having a valid, New Jersey driver's license.

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:51:30 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Lastly, I am sure I have hired illegal immigrants.  I have hired the guys hanging out at the train station to do grunt work and I doubt they were all American citizens.  But I will tell you this, please don't talk to me about people hiring them for below minimum wage; they won't work for less than $10.00 per hour....cash-ola!



You say "the flow of illegal alien migration into this country must be stopped 100%" and yet you can't be fucked checking the legal status of your employees?

How can you not realize that you are exactly what you are against?


Jesus, man...USE YOUR HEAD!!!  Don't be like DopiGuy, ok?  I'm not the U.S. government that has the money and resources to enforce border security and doesn't.  I live in a city that touts itself as a "Sanctuary City".  Understand?  Do YOU understand what I am saying right now???  So if my Federal Government is going to ignore their responsibility and if my own town is going to ignore the law as well, what do you think, son????  You think I am going to be the bulwark against illegal immigration?  Does that even make sense to you?  I have a 60 yard ditch that has to be dug. THAT is my reality. There are people in my town willing to do it.  The cops drive by and ignore them.  The mayor drives by and ignores them.  There is a court in town but the Judge ignores them too.   And I am supposed to say "well...I don't know whether they are legal or not so I won't hire them and get my ditch dug today for $10.00 per hour and a six pack of beer?  Are you kidding me?  What do you do for a living because it isn't business.


It's far more than just the illegal immigration.  You are cheating the entire fucking system. Paying cash even to a verified legal citizen is fucking bullshit and you know it. No payroll costs, no worker's comp insurance, no liability, no federal match, what the fuck, you are the reason legitimate businesses pay more than necessary. And yes, what I do for a living is run a legitimate business. You don't, not by a longshot. What are you going to do when one of these  guys gets hurt on the site and sues your ass? Because illegal or not, they can and will. Have fun explaining that to the insurance auditors and labor board.



You mean the system that sucks up as much of my tax dollars as it can and pays entitlements to scumbags that don't work?  You mean...that system?  You mean the system that purposefully does not close the border?  That system??  You want me to play by rules that our government doesn't even play by, is that it?  No, Ma'am, I'm not interested in playing on the downhill part of the slope.  As long as things like illegal immigration exists and the government will do nothing meaningful about it, I will take advantage of whatever situation benefits me.  Does that sound mercenary?  That is no more mercenary than a people like SlaveMike4u, Julia, ThompsonX, groveling, whining, bitching for higher taxes so they can get a free or freer ride. 

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 7/17/2011 10:03:57 PM >

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: If you want to cut education spending, but not mili... - 7/17/2011 9:52:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Lockedaway which is it...did you pay the illegals a "very fair wage" or did you hire them because you "needed cheap labor"?


Both!  I didn't pay my skilled carpenter/mason/electrician/plumber/cabinet maker...yes, he does all of that and more...$55.00 per hour to dig a ditch.  I paid $10.00 per hour to anyone that would take the job...high school kid, the people hanging out at McDonald's, etc.  So...did I use illegal alien labor?  I probably did.  Do I regret it?  No.  Like I said, if my government is not going to protect the borders, I am going to do business on the playing field they have allowed to exist.

Just so you know, however, you can't rent an apartment from me without having a valid, New Jersey driver's license.



You are probably a sub contractor without a license.... Like Joe the Plumber



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 100
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