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RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 2:02:51 AM   
PainObjectForUse


Posts: 38
Joined: 7/10/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie

Well if i went REALLY deep and did A LOT of projecting of my own beliefs i would say that submission isn't as selfless as what some people make it out to be. I act a certain way because there is a payoff in the behaviour. I like to serve because it makes me feel good. Now that is not to say that it is fake imo but it certainly isn't the selfless act that some people have in their heads about what submission "should" be.

PERHAPS, and this is a huge perhaps because i would need so much more context to the conversation, that is what the person was trying to portray.


Good point. Submission = Means to an ends. We are both diferent sides of the same coin. Dominant can also become a tool in the submissive's hand.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hi Tony,
There is some ridiculous idea from some folks who call themselves dominants (not actual dominants, mind you - just ones who call themselves this) that submissive people should be completely focused on the dominant person.  They seem to think that a follower has no personal needs, wants, desires.  They think that wanting joy and love and good things is a sign that the person is not actually submissive and is in fact a fake.  This is how I read it.

Anyone who wants a HEALTHY person should expect that person to have standards.  The people who think the statement you have quoted tend to be people who are substandard (I made a word play.  YAY me!)

best wishes,
sunshine

p.s.  Welcome to the forums again.  I enjoy your posts. 



Thank you.- I hope to se more of you here also and let's give it our best. I agree that we are not devoid of personality.
I refuse objectification and yes, substandard, but also people who are somehow compensating for something. I would find it very unhealthy, not to say dangerous, to engage in that kind of relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Tony,
There are so many places I could go with that quote. The reality is though that my take on it is that none of them would go to a positive place. And suffice it to say, I just chose to spend my time and energy focusing on positive things today. This is not meant to offend you in any way, shape, or form.....It's just to say that through out your experiences on the board you will no doubt be bombarded with many negative beliefs, comments, statements and sadly sometimes down right attacks and accusations....
Take what you want and leave the rest is my motto.

Kali



Don't ever be afraid to speak your mind my dear. Yes, I know what you mean. And all I can say is that they can bring all their nastiness to the ring. I tink that uptight people and people who think too highly of themselves to simply be ...  funny. Some of them are simply blunt as a personality trait, but deep inside they reveal themselves to be great company.

I prefer to take a direct hit in the stomach than to be deluding myself and have people delude me. Naiveness has a drawing limit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve


Cynicism tends to settle in when you start feeling like an actor, a blank canvas for others to project their fantasies onto, instead of a human being with needs of your own - a dissatisfaction with being confined to a superficial role is common element among married people seeking gratification in BDSM outside the marriage for example.



Exactly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

" there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "

I was wondering what people make of this?
what would i make of it? that whoever said it knew what the fuck they were talking about. it's basically what coookie said <bitch beat me to it!>. submission does contain a degree of 'fakeness' because while on the surface its about giving, underneath its about taking. the sub doesn't submit to please the dom, he/she does it to fucking please themself. the sub gets her kick by submitting, that's why she submits.

thinking this through a bit, one could say the same fucking thing about dominance too. on the surface its about what the fucking dom wants, but underneath, a good dom knows that the sub has to be getting what they want as well. so while the dom seems to be taking, they are actually giving as well.

its a fucking yin/yang sort of thing, they aren't opposites so much as complimentary aspects of one principle. it's not that the one completes the other, its that they must both be present for either to happen. dominance without submission is fuck all, and vice versa. so submission and dominance are aspects of the same thing, so of course each has bits of the other within it.

and now i think i've gone and fucking confused myself.



Actually you made perfect sense Rocky .Welcome back to the ring.




_____________________________

"I may be submissive, but I am not your slave" by me.

- Yes , I suffer from the syndrome of over-generalization.

It's not so much what I write, but the way I write it.

(in reply to coookie)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 5:26:47 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

all the world's a stage -
If all the world's a stage, then where does the audience sit?
There's room on my face for one more!

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 6:34:38 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		To me it simply seems to say that sometimes you're not in a submissive headspace so you get your partner their coffee while mentally kvetching 'why the hell can't he ever get his own'. All submissives, like all dominants, are going to have down days where they don't feel like much more than curling up in bed with a good book. But you still do what you said you would because you still love your partner and you know they appreciate that first cup showing up magically.

In exactly the same way that you haul yourself out of bed and go to work, even when you know this isn't going to be your most productive day. The fact that you mostly enjoy it doesn't change the fact that sometimes you don't.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 6:50:11 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

" there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "

I was wondering what people make of this?
what would i make of it? that whoever said it knew what the fuck they were talking about. it's basically what coookie said <bitch beat me to it!>. submission does contain a degree of 'fakeness' because while on the surface its about giving, underneath its about taking. the sub doesn't submit to please the dom, he/she does it to fucking please themself. the sub gets her kick by submitting, that's why she submits.

thinking this through a bit, one could say the same fucking thing about dominance too. on the surface its about what the fucking dom wants, but underneath, a good dom knows that the sub has to be getting what they want as well. so while the dom seems to be taking, they are actually giving as well.

its a fucking yin/yang sort of thing, they aren't opposites so much as complimentary aspects of one principle. it's not that the one completes the other, its that they must both be present for either to happen. dominance without submission is fuck all, and vice versa. so submission and dominance are aspects of the same thing, so of course each has bits of the other within it.

and now i think i've gone and fucking confused myself.




I was going to quote Coookie and add my own spin then I keep reading and find Hannah's treasure that already did and well........I cannot add too much.

I think the problem lies when it gets off balance on one side or the other. We have ALL seen, over and over, the dominant characters that do a fabulous job of alienating everyone by their all about me attitudes and they get bashed pretty heartily.

I think the do me bottoms masquerading as s types do submissive/slave types a disservice but also do not allow for the discussion of s types that are sometimes off balance from their side of the slash also.

A friend of mine who identifies as a slave, is perhaps one of the most self centred and selfish people I know. I say friend only because in conversations with her, did I begin to understand the mindset of those like her. In reality she has become no more than an acquaintance. Not once have I had a conversation with her in which some aspect of WIIWD and how it was currently affecting her life, was not the focus of the conversation. I do not remember a single conversation about life outside of this, or in that she asked about any other aspect of my life. It is unusual for her to ask about me or my life at all. It is as though she is unable to think outside of her slavery and all that entails. Yet, for the right dominant woman, she is fantastic.

However, I think that the imbalance, the selfishness on either side of the kneel does not create long term relationships. Neither is focused on the relationship but their own gratification and satisfaction.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 7:28:40 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie
Well if i went REALLY deep and did A LOT of projecting of my own beliefs i would say that submission isn't as selfless as what some people make it out to be. I act a certain way because there is a payoff in the behaviour. I like to serve because it makes me feel good. Now that is not to say that it is fake imo but it certainly isn't the selfless act that some people have in their heads about what submission "should" be.

By definition you are fake only if you say one thing but feel another. I mean seriously, Carol is very clear about the various ways she enjoys being mine so it'd be hard to call her "intentions fake" since they are exactly as stated.

Now, I ABSOLUTELY feel this is true for everyone who says something akin to "My only desire is to serve my master..." Yup... since that seems highly unlikely to me to be an accurate statement then I register it as "fake intentions".


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to coookie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:20:23 AM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		Yes, that is the kind of blanket statement i was referring to when i made my post. It also ties into my theory about there being no real altruism either lol but that is a whole different thread.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:26:17 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

" there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "

I was wondering what people make of this?
what would i make of it? that whoever said it knew what the fuck they were talking about. it's basically what coookie said <bitch beat me to it!>. submission does contain a degree of 'fakeness' because while on the surface its about giving, underneath its about taking. the sub doesn't submit to please the dom, he/she does it to fucking please themself. the sub gets her kick by submitting, that's why she submits.

thinking this through a bit, one could say the same fucking thing about dominance too. on the surface its about what the fucking dom wants, but underneath, a good dom knows that the sub has to be getting what they want as well. so while the dom seems to be taking, they are actually giving as well.

its a fucking yin/yang sort of thing, they aren't opposites so much as complimentary aspects of one principle. it's not that the one completes the other, its that they must both be present for either to happen. dominance without submission is fuck all, and vice versa. so submission and dominance are aspects of the same thing, so of course each has bits of the other within it.

and now i think i've gone and fucking confused myself.



I agree 100%. I saw this thread and this post articulated my immediate response.

I loved how all of the shallow non thinkers chimed in in unison.

As if there is some sort of a moral high ground to submission.

it is not some sort of a fucking gift.

It is a trade off. A teeter totter of sorts.

weasels.


_____________________________



(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:29:59 AM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

<bitch beat me to it!>.


=p

edited because emotes suck

< Message edited by coookie -- 7/17/2011 9:31:11 AM >

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:40:20 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PainObjectForUs

- " there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "



I'm a hardwired submissive. I have been for as long as I can remember even before I knew what it was.
It's a yin yang thing to me.
I need to be controlled and to obey.
He needs to control and have someone who will always obey.
What's fake about that?

_____________________________



(in reply to PainObjectForUse)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:43:27 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

" there is always a level of fake in the submissive's intentions! "

I was wondering what people make of this?
what would i make of it? that whoever said it knew what the fuck they were talking about. it's basically what coookie said <bitch beat me to it!>. submission does contain a degree of 'fakeness' because while on the surface its about giving, underneath its about taking. the sub doesn't submit to please the dom, he/she does it to fucking please themself. the sub gets her kick by submitting, that's why she submits.

thinking this through a bit, one could say the same fucking thing about dominance too. on the surface its about what the fucking dom wants, but underneath, a good dom knows that the sub has to be getting what they want as well. so while the dom seems to be taking, they are actually giving as well.

its a fucking yin/yang sort of thing, they aren't opposites so much as complimentary aspects of one principle. it's not that the one completes the other, its that they must both be present for either to happen. dominance without submission is fuck all, and vice versa. so submission and dominance are aspects of the same thing, so of course each has bits of the other within it.

and now i think i've gone and fucking confused myself.



I agree 100%. I saw this thread and this post articulated my immediate response.

I loved how all of the shallow non thinkers chimed in in unison.

As if there is some sort of a moral high ground to submission.

it is not some sort of a fucking gift.

It is a trade off. A teeter totter of sorts.

weasels.



OMG...I agree with both of you.


_____________________________



(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:46:57 AM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

It is unusual for her to ask about me or my life at all.
that's because you're a hot-assed bitch and nobody fucking cares about you or your life outside of wiitwd.

sooooooooo, what are you wearing, baby? 

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:50:03 AM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

OMG...I agree with both of you.
fucking scary isn't it?

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:52:44 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I actually agree with you most of the time...just the delivery is sometimes not my style.
But I think you have a realistic grasp on life.
Even though I believe in God...

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:54:20 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		And domi...met him. He's as douchey and loveable in person.
Is it September yet and NYC meetup time?

_____________________________



(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:57:03 AM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

Even though I believe in God...
ah well, you take it up the fucking ass without lube, so pretty much any failing can be forgiven.

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 9:59:18 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

And domi...met him. He's as douchey and loveable in person.
Is it September yet and NYC meetup time?



Don't get your britches in a bundle. I have to figure out if I can squeeze in a ballgame with Shorey or not.

_____________________________



(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 10:00:29 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

it is not some sort of a fucking gift.



agreed; i'm so totally over the "submission is a gift" line of thinking -- i mean if it floats your boat, fine, but that's totally not what it means to me.

but i also don't see a submissive with her own desires as anything to do with "fakeness." D/s is a give and take; both partners are giving and taking. that's reality to me, not fake. =p

so when someone jumps up and says "there's fakeness in what you're doing!" i take that as a sign of someone who's very cynical.


_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 10:00:53 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		That would be a blast....

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 10:03:39 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Even though I believe in God...
ah well, you take it up the fucking ass without lube, so pretty much any failing can be forgiven.


It's my saving grace.

_____________________________



(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Intention of submission - 7/17/2011 10:53:12 AM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

OMG...I agree with both of you.
fucking scary isn't it?



Aww i feel all warm and squishy inside

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 40
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