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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:22:48 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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I don't like saying this, but look for ALOT more of this going on in any country that is an ally of the US.

I know you all didn't like reading it, try typing it from HOME. Reality folks. I can handle it. Who else ?

I am telling you now, break diplomatic ties with the US and these things will be alot rarer. Sad fucking fact, but a fact nonetheless.

T^T

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 21

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:25:58 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

Thank you for the in-depth analysis, Aswad. After reading it, I don't even know what to say except I hope it's an isolated incident and not a harbinger of things to come, not only in your country but elsewhere around the world.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 22

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:26:30 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Sad fucking fact, but a fact nonetheless.

Not a "fact", or anything close to one.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 23

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:31:47 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

P.S.: Not as clear as I would have liked, but a modern political history review of a small country in Scandinavia is of interest to few

Don't you believe it.

A thoughtful and intelligent assessment is always of value.

It was a very Norwegian post; impassioned, yet fair, and as even-handed as one could imagine, under the circumstances.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 24

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:32:23 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Any thoughts on a lone demento or is this a like group of any size?

Group. Far right wing extremists in Eastern Norway. His identity was just confirmed by police, and they've all but confirmed the (pretty well known) association. All indications are he will meet with an extrajudicial 'event' before seeing daylight again, assuming he was sane. Chances are he's gone and motivated the politicians to reinstate capital punishment, or life imprisonment, too. Which sucks, as that will seriously fuck up the whole finely tuned balance of our legal system. If he's insane, he will get locked up permanently without the whole country sliding into a dumpster for the sake of politicians' pension arrangements.

Anyway, this was seriously well done as such things go, so I would not discount the possibility of other events being planned. For a plain amateur with limited abilities, he did significant damage, even without the social collateral. And that suggests he had help, as it is much, much more difficult to do such a thing without at least 2-3 people working together. Just consider how many failed attempts al-Quaeda had before they finally achieved any significant success in the west. Then consider that the damages from this event were confined to a large extent to far left wing politicians and their relatives, with the brunt of the impact confined to the members of one political party (out of a dozen major ones). As the present-day infantile form of terrorism goes, it qualifies as borderline surgical.

And they were inches away from landing the blame squarely on jihadists.

Helter skelter, anyone?

quote:

mitt hjerte til Norge

Takk for den. Det går fremover, ser jeg.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 25

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:35:53 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

A country attacking its own is the worst of many options, not the best.

Morally, yes. In terms of cultural, political and judicial consequences, no. Given the pre-attack state of affairs here, it's marginally "better" for the nation, and a lot "better" for the population as a whole (which, after all, contains a number of well-adjusted muslims who already take lots of heat for what a small, homogenous group in one city is doing, as well as for what people in the middle east are doing).

By "better", I obviously mean "less shitty".

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 26

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:39:58 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

By "better", I obviously mean "less shitty".

Or, at least, faster to polarise a country to decide where they stand on matters of liberty and their attitude to the law, and youth cultures.

But it's too early to think about that now.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 27

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:51:49 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I don't like saying this, but look for ALOT more of this going on in any country that is an ally of the US.

I know you all didn't like reading it, try typing it from HOME. Reality folks. I can handle it. Who else ?

I am telling you now, break diplomatic ties with the US and these things will be alot rarer. Sad fucking fact, but a fact nonetheless.

T^T

Imo, its got nothing to do with the US or ties to the US. Every country can have its militants, nutbars, etc. Canada had the FLQ & the Squamish 5 and that was decades ago, nothing to do with ties to the US. Just as the IRA in Ireland has nothing to do with it. And it can happen again in any country. Not everything revolves around the US, sorry to tell ya.

< Message edited by tj444 -- 7/22/2011 6:52:14 PM >

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 28

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 6:59:17 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I know you all didn't like reading it, try typing it from HOME. Reality folks. I can handle it. Who else ?

I didn't mind reading it.

I hope you don't mind me pointing out that the only available evidence right now points to a Polish connection instead.

Incidentally, diplomatic relations make little difference.

The rough size and shape of it is this: diplomatic relations provide us with a channel over which to represent our stance with regard to the Middle East. The US chooses to direct its military to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. Via the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), our military must back them up. Allies back each other up, then sort out their differences after they've dealt with non-allies. Which brings us back to our diplomatic connections affording us the opportunity to present such input. What you propose entails a presence which we have less control over. Severing ties to NATO is another ball game, and it's a high stakes one. Suffice to say the US budget deficit resembles the Norwegian budget surplus, per capita, due to natural resources.

Reality isn't always simple.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 29

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:05:00 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

"Not a "fact", or anything close to one. "

Time will tell. You don't see it for what it is, I do. And I ain't tellin' because you would just blow it off. So have a laugh. Watch some TV.

T^T

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 30

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:06:17 PM

erieangel

Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline

I heard about this on the news before I left for work at noon and almost cried.

What is the world coming to?

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 31

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:11:00 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Not a "fact", or anything close to one. "

Time will tell. You don't see it for what it is, I do

No, you don't. You have a host of personal issues, which you project onto a wider stage, while simultaneously demonstrating ignorance on a grand scale.

Out of respect for the victims of this outrage, that's all I'm going to say, other than please, for the love of all that's good, kindly shut your mouth when adults are discussing things you have no comprehension of.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 32

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:13:31 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

"Which brings us back to our diplomatic connections affording us the opportunity to present such input."

Input schminput. You got nukes ? If not you don't even have to shut up, you will be ignored. Might makes right in this world, and these assholes we got here think they are God and nobody can touch them. We are the Almighty United States Of America, and we have the power to reshape the world in our own image.

We have the power to shape the world in our own image, those words were spoken by a politician. With an attitude like that I say get away and build nukes. I suggest you do the same.

Aswad, I am sure you have loyalty to your country and so do I. But the way things are going, the only thing that can help my misguided nation is extreme strife. Ousting of the politicians, which will only happen when they can no longer pay their minions. Minions work for anyone, and the good ones are already on the side of the People, NOT the government. I see it EVERY DAY. We are rotting from within.

You would have to be here to know.

T^T

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 33

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:16:21 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

You would have to be here to know.

Out of respect for the dead, could you possibly keep your insane, tinfoil-tainted twaddle to yourself, just this once?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 34

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:44:54 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

"Out of respect for the victims of this outrage, that's all I'm going to say, other than please, for the love of all that's good, kindly shut your mouth when adults are discussing things you have no comprehension of. "

Time will tell. You, like a few others consider yourself above others, and in the merry merry Empire upon which the sun never sets you will learn, in time. Are you here ? Do you know what it is like on our streets ? Do you know what is going on here ? When were you here last ?

You claim to know more than me and try to impel me to an emotional response about a bunch of dead people ? You can cry like a baby all you want, but I deal in reality. You think the PTB are going to succeed ? Well they are in the short run. They already HAVE. But the discontent around the world, not just in this country is apparent to anyone with an objective viewpoint.

In telling me to shut my mouth when adults are speaking, you are calling me a non adult. If what you are is an adult, I want no part of it. Of course I have issues, the fucking country is going broke, the middle class is all but destroyed, the government fucks everything it does up on purpose it seems. They can't even get a budget, ESPECIALLY within their means.

Anyone who doesn't have a problem with that is not the the adult. I KNOW reality. I KNOW cause and effect. I can see it coming. So from over there you say that the US can shape the world in their own image with impunity ? If so, it is not I who is mistaken.

T^T

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 35

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:46:07 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

"Out of respect for the dead, could you possibly keep your insane, tinfoil-tainted twaddle to yourself, just this once? "

And since you mentioned it, unlike some I respect the living more than the dead.

T^T

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 36

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:50:20 PM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Time will tell. You, like a few others consider yourself above others, and in the merry merry Empire upon which the sun never sets you will learn, in time. Are you here ? Do you know what it is like on our streets ? Do you know what is going on here ? When were you here last ?

You claim to know more than me and try to impel me to an emotional response about a bunch of dead people ? You can cry like a baby all you want, but I deal in reality. You think the PTB are going to succeed ? Well they are in the short run. They already HAVE. But the discontent around the world, not just in this country is apparent to anyone with an objective viewpoint.

In telling me to shut my mouth when adults are speaking, you are calling me a non adult. If what you are is an adult, I want no part of it. Of course I have issues, the fucking country is going broke, the middle class is all but destroyed, the government fucks everything it does up on purpose it seems. They can't even get a budget, ESPECIALLY within their means.

Anyone who doesn't have a problem with that is not the the adult. I KNOW reality. I KNOW cause and effect. I can see it coming. So from over there you say that the US can shape the world in their own image with impunity ? If so, it is not I who is mistaken.

You are a truly worthless individual, and your ignorance and insanity are not excuses.

I will not respond to you again on this subject, because trolling idiots like yourself will seek attention even in moments like these, and you can claim all the "knowledge" you want to, because it's obvious you have none.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 37

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:51:15 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Thank you for the in-depth analysis, Aswad. After reading it, I don't even know what to say except I hope it's an isolated incident and not a harbinger of things to come, not only in your country but elsewhere around the world.

Thanks for the kind words. My hope is the same in this regard.

I remember hearing a recent interview with Chomsky on the subject of the political undercurrents in the US at the moment, comparing the situation to the late Weimar republic. It echoed what I had been struggling to put good words to in reply to an exchange where someone I respect was expressing enthusiasm about those exact movements. A failure of leadership can easily lead to disenfranchisement and such turning into a mob that is readily wielded by people who do not have at heart the best interests of the individuals in such a mob. Not really taking these people seriously enough is, from my perspective as an outsider, the primary failure of leadership on the part of Obama, and could easily prove the ticket back onto the downslide Bush Jr started, leading goodness knows where.

Similar problems exist in Norway, and I would not be surprised to learn they are part of how this attacker arrived at a frame of mind in which he could rationalize bombing and killing. Indeed, if there were a path out of the impasse by way of violence, I would find it a very difficult situation, morally. But there isn't. Sadly, it takes vision and alternative thinking to find ways out, and those not capable of it may well take their chances, as we've seen in Libya and so on. The sad part being that we cheer those on, even as they march onward with no viable migration path to any substantial improvement. While I may cheer the sentiment, I am not optimistic about the outcome.

I spent years arriving at a way out, without such needless violence, and was planning on spending years on giving it a go. This guy has managed to make that a lot harder, in the span of a day. Not so much so that I'm giving up on my country, probably, but enough that it has become necessary to rely on others to carry a part of the burden, and may take a lot longer to get there. Still without a guarantee of success.

So, while I still hope, as you do, that this will be an isolated event, the realist in me sees it as the logical continuation of a worldwide pattern. Taking steps to find ways to direct the sentiments found in the world today in constructive ways is probably the most patriotic and valuable action anyone can undertake for their country right now, the US included. One can't fight sentiment with law and the like. That's like fighting a river. Instead, it must be diverted to fertilize crops instead of flooding villages.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 38

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:52:07 PM

Anaxagoras

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
"Out of respect for the dead, could you possibly keep your insane, tinfoil-tainted twaddle to yourself, just this once? "

And since you mentioned it, unlike some I respect the living more than the dead.

Just wondering Termy, who are you talking to on the phone, is it a Mr. A. Jones?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 39

RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/22/2011 7:55:47 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

You got nukes ? If not you don't even have to shut up, you will be ignored.

We've got something better than nukes: oil.

Health,
al-Aswad.

P.S.: That's about as much as I'll digress on that topic in this thread.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 40

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