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RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/29/2011 9:55:21 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

If they are going for gun control, I would suspect that the murderer got his orders from the government, or at least the people who control the government. Gun control usually is introduced when a government intends to commit genocide on parts of its population, and is preceded by attacks like this one.


We have bigger problems on the horizon.

And gun control here just means knowing how to use it, and not carrying.

Overall, the number of legally registered guns per citizen here is comparable to the USA, but they're in skilled hands.

Incidentally, while I would point out the obvious fact that you're coming across a little paranoid, I can assure you it's a scenario that's been considered. Germans did, after all, get handed the country on a silver platter the last time someone wanted it. And I'm not very fond of the idea of giving up the lands of my ancestors. Takes me about three minutes to get armed, if there are hostilities. Got good people covering my back and side if that kind of shit ever hits the fan. My kill range is 400 yards with iron sights.

If you want to fund a geared-up rapid response unit, by all means send me the €uros. I'll make it happen.

Failing that, this is as good as it gets for now- not being fish in a barrel.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/30/2011 12:15:22 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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Aswad, I have taken your reply to me to heart, or whatvewr and now I shall respond. The premise of my earlier all too lengthy and detailed ad nauseum response was not all that well constructed. Sorry to waste your time.

But to set the premise, thine enemy's enemies are thine friends, and what is not apparent is that the reverse is also true. Unpublished figures would probably show that the Axis powers of the US, UK and Israel have perhaps ¼ or more of the world's population against them. This is not specific to any country per se, but it is specific to our allies. One member here, like thousands of Americans and others, uses a French or other foreign passport on which to travel abroad. Why do you think that is ?

We are not what the TV says, we are not omnipotent, no matter what the actions of our aloof and out of control government does, or thinks. We, the US have at least one BILLION enemies on this planet, and make no mistake about that. And if your country takes up with ours, you are in the same boat, but without the extreme military we have, or think we have. Fuck 9/11, what about Pearl Harbor ? What, were all he RADAR operators watching ,Captain Kangaroo or something ? Bullsit. Yes, this country does have the best defense on the planet, but sometimes they decide not to use it. I am not kidding myself that it was incompetence anymore, and really, even if it was they need a piee of lead in their head.

But what I am saying is that shit is going to happen here sooner or later, and it is best for other countries to remain neutral, and not be our ally. At least on the books.

What's more, NOT allying your country with the US, UK and Israel will probably result in more popular support for your govenment,

That is it, condensed, What do you think ?

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 7/30/2011 12:20:47 AM >

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/30/2011 5:13:42 AM   
outhere69


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FR--

Regarding the "Hitler youth" remark from early in the thread...the Tea Party has such camps, and Glenn Beck (the first guy I heard calling them "Hitler youth") supports some of them.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/30/2011 5:24:26 PM   
Termyn8or


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Fuck Dolf, he lost. He played his hand in the game, in the big game and he lost. I was not talking about that. You read the controlled news out of Arab countries and think everything is hunky-dory. It is not. They have the same fucking problem we have here - controlled elections. They CAN'T vote their way out of this and neither can we. And the US installed at least half of those governments.

The People can only be quelled for so long. When the Murrah building blew up nobody even thought a US Citizen would have done it, the REACTION was that it was Arab terrorists. But it wasn't.

You can't protect the borders against people who are already within them.

T^T

(in reply to outhere69)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/30/2011 7:55:58 PM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Fuck Dolf, he lost. He played his hand in the game, in the big game and he lost.

He was set up to lose. He was set up to be the scape-goat way long before the War.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 7/30/2011 8:16:27 PM   
Termyn8or


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Well I wasn't trying to go into that because this threadjacking sometimes gets out of hand. I can't be doing it if I want bitching rights, right ?

T^T

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 8/1/2011 4:51:07 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

That is it, condensed, What do you think ?


I think you did a good job of tightening up the post. Thanks.

Unfortunately, the point is kind of moot, as our defense strategy is based on the alliance with NATO, of which the USA is a member. Some of the political parties are vocally opposed to USA in general, but those lost their political standing to the Labor Party after the attacks last week, and the Labor Party is a pretty strong supporter of the USA. Regardless, none are voicing credible opposition to NATO membership, and that means we're military allies under article 5 etc.

With regard to Israel, however, that is a very different matter. We were in the Lebanon over a period of 20 years. We have had terrorist acts carried out on our soil by Mossad. We paid close attention to the first Gaza convoy. We had prominent politicians on the second Gaza convoy, who remain convinced Israel sabotaged it. And we've seen what happened with Arafat, and on the West Bank in general. Let's just say Jewish citizens are careful to voice their opposition Israel, so as to be able to live here. Anything else would be social suicide.

Presently, no political party has any intention of building a capable self defense force, among other things because it's a difficult job to do in peacetime. We have 1.7 million citizens that are fit for service, and about half of those have the necessary training, but in the event of an attack, the most we could hope for is ca. 400.000 armed effectives. About 55.000 of those are in the Home Guard, with only 1.200 in active service, while about 25.000 are in active service with the Armed Forces. The rest are reserves and de-facto reserves. There are no plans to supplement them with an automated defense grid, and suggestions that we move to the turnkey point in terms of nuclear are in effect political suicide, so most of our upgrades will not affect domestic capabilities.

As regards the USA specifically, the most effective deterrents are money and oil.

We've got plenty of both.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 8/1/2011 6:48:43 PM   
Termyn8or


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"As regards the USA specifically, the most effective deterrents are money and oil."

It must be more than that. Saddam had money and oil. But the situation is indeed different. Saddam was going to switch to the euro, and I think he was going to flood the world with USDs. That would not have a good effect on the US economy to say the least. Realistically, it's likely he wanted revenge because quite simply, he was tired of his treatment by the US.

However it seems you don't like the euro. I can see a nation preferring the euro to the USD given world happenings and the US' behavior. However after what I've read about your economy, if the government tried to switch to the euro I think it would be political suicide (the US dollar would probably be real suicide). I could be wrong but that's the impresson I get. It seems you have very little to do with the US dollar, and are enjoying every minute of it. I wouldn't change a thing.

It's going to be difficult not to get your feet wet when the shit starts with Iran. I don't know what they're thinking here, if left alone Iran probably wouldn't bother anyone. However they are seen as a threat to  Israel, and that seems to be intolerable. Who has Iran attacked ? At least with Iraq they could beat the drum about Kuwait, but they didn't even bother. It may be unlikely but now we have inuendo of Israel attacking Iran and of course the US will be conscripted. The real goal is to have every government in the world "friendly" to the US, UK and Israel. They want no threat from anyone, no nukes in the hands of anyone who might not be their buddies. This is probably related to a desire to have enough allies in case Russia and/or China ever make(s) a move. It may also be a test to see if Russia will aid Iran if Israel goes through with it. China wouldn't at this time, but if our economy gets alot worse, their attitude may change.

We are talking about a world war here if certain things happen. The US is not going to be anywhere near neutral, and for smaller countries neutrality is usually the best policy. You might see refugees from the US. I might be the first............

Many people like to talk about how terrible the attack was and things like that, but I question why. Why in the world would anyone mess with you ? It makes no sense, but in time more things may come to light. I doubt they will be pleasant to realize.

T^T

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 8/1/2011 11:25:17 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

It must be more than that. Saddam had money and oil.


Well, for one thing, the only thing we do have enough manpower for, is holding the oil rigs. Their only shot at getting the oil would be to bomb the rigs and rebuild new ones. And doing that with undersea oil sources on a seismically pseudostable region with major nearby methane clarthate deposits is a recipe for making Kuwait look like a regular bonfire. The chain of events leading out from such a thing can potentially render Earth unable to sustain human life. That's a bit more of a gamble than entering Iraq.

Also, they would have to kill everyone. Otherwise, they would lose every soldier and mechanized infantry unit they landed here, and the navy would find that the coastal defense grid is very much alive and kicking. It's a losing proposition in the financial sense, except with a massive aerial bombardment campaign, which would leave a lot of people less than enthusiastic. Nuclear bombs would be a problem, as there are veins of fissile material in some of the mountains, and there is limited data on which ones, since we aren't mining it.

Finally, Russia is a next door neighbour, and they don't want the USA on their doorstep.

quote:

Many people like to talk about how terrible the attack was and things like that, but I question why. Why in the world would anyone mess with you ? It makes no sense, but in time more things may come to light. I doubt they will be pleasant to realize.


Actually, the terrorist attacks in Oslo made perfect sense, and I wasn't the least bit surprised. I had a list of four likely candidates, and it didn't include a single non-domestic source. Turned out it was the first item on the list. Or, depending on how you count, the first and the second. The surprising thing is that so few people were killed, and that it was so successful in accomplishing the goals of the attack even with less than a hundred dead (though we can expect the figure to rise).

As for jihadist attacks, one of the heads of Ansar al-Islam is in Norway as a political refugee, and is currently indicted for threats against key political figures. He's being handled in the "business as usual" manner via the regular courts, and everything is quite above board in that regard (though there's clearly some ruffled feathers about the failed attempt at exiling him).The matter has attracted the expected series of threats of terrorist attacks, which is again handled in the "business as usual" manner by the intelligence and counterterrorism branches of the police force.

Incidentally, while Breivik brought some intelligence to the table, he didn't bring enough. His execution was sloppy and poorly planned in some areas. While the bombs at the government building were not the primary concern, they could have been a significant contributor to the result if he'd just investigated a bit up front. As it was, he struck (by chance) in a narrow window of opportunity when the safeguards against car bombs were down for maintenance. Additional measures were going up in the August to September timeframe. And also, the basement parking lot bore the brunt of the force of the explosion, so under normal circumstances, that particular part of the operation he carried out would have done marginal damage. That could have been foreseen with a bit more planning.

Norway is generally peacable, but there are some internal forces that are less than happy with the status quo, and some external ones that are less than happy that we've got some pretty effective troops in the Middle East, and have since the beginning. I'm guessing they were a lot more popular when they were keeping the peace in Lebanon, or when we operated a field hospital open to the public along the minefield near the Highway of Death in the First Gulf War (and a bar nearby, carefully placed so no part of it would be on the Kuwait side of the border, where drinking was illegal). Incidentally, that's the one that put a stop to the bounty on civilians collecting mines, by letting the ambassador see the combat medics at work when a load of casualties came in. Until he fainted, anyway. The same place is where they developed the current gold standard guidelines on the first aid procedures for crushing injuries and explosives injuries.

Anyway, every nation has some skeletons in its various closets.

Our closets simply happen to have Hobbit skeletons.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: There goes the neighbourhood - 8/2/2011 9:59:31 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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"The surprising thing is that so few people were killed, and that it was so successful in accomplishing the goals of the attack even with less than a hundred dead (though we can expect the figure to rise). "

That may have been the plan. I have long held that in the US the WTC was chosen for certain reasons, high on the list would be international trade. They could've wiped out the pentagon instead, or attacked some "sacred" monument(s) or even an area more populated by US citizens. I don't think their goal is necessarly to kill the most people possible. Right there in NYC they probably could've killed more common people.

I think most domestic or foreign terrorists are more after what they see as an expansionist plan to seek worldwide power via "friendly" regimes installed by the forces of the big money power. This would of course mean profit for that power.

People tend to view terrorists as stupid religious fanatics, but I don't buy it. I think they see themselves being pushed to the edge by the PTB and if able they would find other means to fight. Some people in the US are getting to that point. And every time the US takes to bombing, they create more revenge seekers. It doesn't take religion to spur people to acts of violence when they have seen their friends and families blown to bits.

One of these days the world will wake up, just hope it doesn't wake up dead. Your fissionable minerals and ocean based dangers involved in attacking don't do much to deter those who practice the doctrine of mutually assured destruction. Some people have the idea that "If I can't have it, nobody can". There may actually be no solution.

T^T

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 110
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