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RE: A new drug for hysterical leftists! - 7/23/2011 9:30:02 AM   
VideoAdminTheta


Posts: 3967
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Status: offline 		LOL RealOne!

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A new drug for hysterical leftists! - 7/23/2011 9:30:10 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k_TLz_f8SU&feature=player_embedded




How many times are you going to post this lame-ass link?

This has to be the third or fourth.

(in reply to ArizonaBossMan)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 9:30:37 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		I just thought it might help you with coming to terms with the inner turmoil you feel over this horrible crime.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 9:34:26 AM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW
I'm sad, and angry for the Norwegians. I tried calling a friend of mine there, but haven't been able to reach him yet, so hope he wasn't directly affected.


Due to the tragedy the phone system is overburdened, so stay calm, took me a lot of tries to reach my friend, if you have the mobile number, try sending an SMS, chances that it might get through are better.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely try that. M


_____________________________

"..touching was and still is and always will be the True Revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 9:37:13 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

quote:

In another tread you queried that I was glad he was caught alive. The reason I said so was because we need to understand this kind of evil people to stop them before it comes to what happened here. When that process is complete and we can gain no more knowledge from them, then I certainly agree with your sentiment. I would even gladly give you a femhundredlap to help purchase the oil.


I do not think it is possible for sane people to understand such evil.

I wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 12:16:30 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Nephandi,

I'm truly sorry you are feeling so horrible and conflicted.

I understand people being against the death penalty, but as you can see here, there are circumstances where the "punishment" may not fit the "crime." There is no doubt here about what this man has done, and believe it or not, while there are mistakes made, those mistakes are being lessened by techonology and progress.

In most western countries, the death penalty being permitted as a possible sentence is not all that easy to get "on the table." I appreciate LC's link about the innocence project, but you have to remember that statistics can and are always spun to support the position of the person or group using them.

When one looks at the Innocence Project and the sentences being overturned, it is important to look at when those convictions were, what the circumstances were. In the US, someone is not sentenced to the death penalty and executed the next week or even within the next year. There are mandatory appeals, because the justice system DOES want to be sure that the person convicted is indeed guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

Back in 1936 when Bruno Richard Hauptman was executed for the kidnapping and killing of Charles Lindbergh's son, is not something that would ever happen today. That was where my interest in law and the death penalty started. I truly believe that Hauptman was railroaded, and he was executed within two years of his conviction. That could not happen today.

When Charles Manson was convicted and sentenced to death there was no doubt at all about his guilt. Yet, today, Manson still sits in prison, nutty as ever. There is no reform or rehabilitation possible for this man, and he will never be released. Not because parole is not an option, but because there are still concerns that he would commit more murders and he still has "followers."

Even life in prison does not always equate to rotting in a cell until death. As Manson's case shows, parole hearings do come up, and so even convicted murderers are turned back into society. Wyldhrt posted on another post a list (that I believe was partial) of people who were set free to commit more and often more violent crimes.

The common saying of letting 10 murderers go free rather than convict one innocent person is a lovely sentiment. But that is truly all it is. Because those 10 murders could then conceivably kill hundreds more. Are those hundreds that die for the sake of one innocent person (who does have the ability to prove his innocence and go free) worth less?

No system is perfect. Obviously, Norway's justice system has its issues, just as the US does. But in both instances, we try to improve those systems to make sure that innocent people don't waste away in prison, but also to make sure that violent criminals don't have the chance to harm more people.

Am I saying that I think those innocent people should rot in jail? Of course not. That's what organizations such as the Innocence Project are for. But have you ever thought about the number of criminals who are aquitted "technicalities?" Those technicalities have nothing to do with guilt or innocence, but with the rules of court and making sure that everyone is playing by the rules. That is just one of the ways Justice Systems have progressed to protect society.

That doesn't mean police don't get over zealous in their investigations, or that prosecutors sometimes abuse their positions. But thinking that is the norm rather than the exception is a huge mistake. I can't speak for Norway, but in the US, there are thousands of murder trials per year that don't make the national news, and probably close to a million criminal trials for other offenses per year. The Justice System in the US does everything it can to ensure that the right person is convicted. Of all those some 10,000 murder trials each year, the death penalty is a possible sentence probably for less than 100 cases. In all those cases, the crimes were particularly heinous (such as what you are currently going through) and the evidence being presented against the person is usually very tremendous.

My point is that while it is easy to say that the death penalty is equal to murder, it isn't. It isn't one person making a decision that they justify in their mind to take another life. Not everyone can be rehabilitated, and in the states that have capital punishment, the decision was made that when a crime is particularly heinous, or that rehabilitation is simply not going to happen, then the taxpayers should not have to pay for these people to live in already over crowded prison systems that cause us to then release people that shouldn't be released so they commit more crimes.

In the US, our citizens felt much like you do, maybe even worse on 9/11. That wasn't hundreds senselessly killed, but thousands. A decade later, many of us believe that justice was finally served. Justice won't take that long in this case, and while the pain you and your country are feeling will fade, but it may cause your country to re-evaluate their Justice System to make improvements and changes to see this doesn't happen again.

I hope you feel better soon.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 12:23:39 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

I do not think it is possible for sane people to understand such evil.


I disagree completely, and it pains me to see such words from you, and it weakens my hope in the future of humanity in general, and the western hemisphere in particular. If everyone thinks this way, we shall see more such attacks, and fail to stop them, succeeding only in destroying ourselves irrevocably in the process.

Be well, my love.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 12:25:35 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

In most western countries, the death penalty being permitted as a possible sentence is not all that easy to get "on the table." I appreciate LC's link about the innocence project, but you have to remember that statistics can and are always spun to support the position of the person or group using them.




Actually that is an incorrect statement - the US is the ONLY western country who has the capital punishment, I don't think you can speak of "most" if all others have abolished it as barbaric. Now how can you spin wrong convictions? Will there ever be a reason to risk killing an innocent person? Most civilized countries will say NO, however the US thinks differently - one of the reasons why I am glad to not live there anymore.


_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 12:32:15 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		most people out here don't care if they continually forward or support erroneous information.

That is what makes this site suck so hard.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 12:36:22 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

I do not think it is possible for sane people to understand such evil.


I disagree completely, and it pains me to see such words from you, and it weakens my hope in the future of humanity in general, and the western hemisphere in particular. If everyone thinks this way, we shall see more such attacks, and fail to stop them, succeeding only in destroying ourselves irrevocably in the process.

Be well, my love.



Actually I think nephandi is correct, it is almost impossible for a sane person to understand what goes on in the mind of somebody who is not sane, we can try to understand and try to grasp what motivates and drives them, but I doubt we ever will really understand how their minds work, would be nice if we would, because then we could possibly fix the problem.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 1:05:38 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi


I am still against the death penalty, however some thing in me says that this monster deserves to die, he should pay with his life for his crimes against the Norwegian people, against humanity, my head says capital punishment is not the way to go, but my heart cry out for blood.



I think your feelings are a normal reaction, I don't think none of us would cry for the guy if he had the most horrific accident and death, anger at such a horrible crime is a normal reaction, and yes he would deserve to die, however by killing him, you let a criminal turn you into a killer, or somebody who supports taking lives - and that would make him and the likes of him win.



Lady C, boy, that's a stretch.
How can "he" win if he's d-e-a-d?
And how does "he" turn me into a killer by having my taxdollars dispatch him?
You're really reaching there. Many many people do not share your.....thoughts on that.
Executioner Popeye

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 1:34:05 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		There's no evidence he wasn't sane. Be nice and comfortable if there were.

But, sadly, the evidence points to him being misinformed, more than anything.

Words like "insane" and "evil" are nothing more than a way to ward off a too unpleasant or frightening thought. The thought that this was a random event is scary. The thought that it happened for a reason that we can understand is even scarier. It implies we have something inside ourselves that is somehow comparable to something inside someone else. But if we put those feelings aside for a moment, and proceed from the assumption that we can understand, and that there's probably a reason behind his actions that made sense to him at the time, then we can identify and understand the cause of this event.

If we do that, we can possibly fix the problem.

If not, it will just be another "never again"... a nice slogan, but impotent and without substance, touted most often by those who will be first in line to repeat history when it comes 'round again (with a different scapegoat the next time, probably the muslims). I'll stake a home-cooked meal that this guy has spoken those exact words at some point (they're quite popular here, in relation to the German occupation). Words are meaningless if we don't back them up with understanding. "Never what again?"... we can't deny cause and effect, so we must address the cause, if we are to prevent the effect. What I see here, and elsewhere, is a commitment- by the majority- to make sure this will happen again.

That nauseates me like no media coverage of the event ever could. Not directed at anyone in particular. Just nausea at the thought that we, collectively, will probably have some part in the reoccurence of such an event in the future.

Hope that was reasonably clear. I'm somewhat emotional about the whole thing, past, present and future parts of it.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 1:59:31 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Actually I think nephandi is correct, it is almost impossible for a sane person to understand what goes on in the mind of somebody who is not sane, we can try to understand and try to grasp what motivates and drives them, but I doubt we ever will really understand how their minds work, would be nice if we would, because then we could possibly fix the problem.


how do you correlate sanity with lack of understanding?

Then it goes without saying that one must be insane to understand.

Further meaning that psychologists are nuttier than fruitcakes.

Which from what I have seen that is not far from the truth, though I have met a few with both feet on the ground.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 2:50:00 PM   
imperatrixx


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Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Isn't it strange how the people who are in favour of capital punishment find it offensive that women should be allowed to terminate an unwanted pregnancy?


Not really. The two really don't have anything to do with each other. That's like saying isn't it strange how people who are in favor of legal abortion are opposed to sending people to die in Iraq? GET IT LOL ITS BOTH DEATH ITS TOTALLY THE SAME THING

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 2:57:14 PM   
RqrCompanionS


Posts: 76
Joined: 7/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Isn't it strange how the people who are in favour of capital punishment find it offensive that women should be allowed to terminate an unwanted pregnancy?



Not that I'm in favour of capital punishment, but, I would say that is not the same thing. Babies don't commit crimes. They don't kidnap little girls, rape them, then bury their bodies in the woods. They don't even rob banks. Most of the time, when babies are killed, it's because someone else failed to exert a little self control, got selfish, got lazy, or, committed the crime of incest or rape that caused the baby to start, in the first place. And, the rest of the time, it's because someone didn't have the right ingredients, made a faulty baby, and, instead of loving what they created, despite its faults, they decided to deny having created it in the first place.

Most criminals are criminals because they chose to be criminals.

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 3:05:47 PM   
RqrCompanionS


Posts: 76
Joined: 7/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Actually I think nephandi is correct, it is almost impossible for a sane person to understand what goes on in the mind of somebody who is not sane, we can try to understand and try to grasp what motivates and drives them, but I doubt we ever will really understand how their minds work, would be nice if we would, because then we could possibly fix the problem.


Actually I think: What makes you think you are sane?
Sane people are well balanced, not unweird. And, balance means a greater grasp of empathetic ability. In other words, a mostly sane person is far more likely to understand a mostly insane person, than, another insane person, of similar or lesser insanity, is. Unfortunately, there are very few sane people in the world, because, to be considered sane, you have to over 95 percent balanced, and, most people who believe they are sane are only 60 -85 percent balanced.

Those who are sane are perceived as being insane by the majority, too - because, they are so different from you (you, the majority, not you specific).

Sanity, in other words, is a very lonely, but, empathetic, state of being. If you don't understand insanity, you are not sane enough to grasp it. lol

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 3:17:09 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi
Greetings

I am against the death penalty, I have always believed that no human being have the right to murder another, that to kill a crimenal strapped to a chair or a pole or placed against a wall, captured and helpless makes a nation no better than that criminal, and in addition in most cases one can not be 100 percent sure one have the right guy. I have argued this point, quite vocally many times, but today I feel my faith on this matter have been shaken.

A man in Norway have set a bomb that first killed seven people and seriously hut at least 14, then he want to a summer camp for teenagers and people in their early 20's. Kids, just innocent kids and killed 84 of them in cold blood and who know how many are hurt. The bastard had even remembered to bring protection for his ears so his hearing would not be harmed by the sound from the weapons as he walked around executing children! This monster did all this, well none are completely sure why yet, but the current theory is that it is because he is a right wing extremist and he hated the fact that our government accept as many refugees and immigrants as we can support. His motivation might be something else, that part is not clear yet, but what is clear is that he executed dozens and dozens of defenseless children and youngsters.

Now in Norway this monster risks 21 years in prison, 21 years!!! Now he might get sentenced to be secured for a longer time, but in theory the longest time he will be spending in prison is 21 years and he will be out after half of that with good behavior. I am enraged, why should a pig that have taken so many innocent lives be free after two decades, it is against any feeling of justice I have. Now this man can never pay for what he have done, but at least he should be locked away forever, and the priviliges that prisoners have in Norwegian prisons like TV in the room, access to internet, library, a relatively comfy room and so on, all that should be taken away, they should drop this man in a dark hole and never let him out again.

I am still against the death penalty, however some thing in me says that this monster deserves to die, he should pay with his life for his crimes against the Norwegian people, against humanity, my head says capital punishment is not the way to go, but my heart cry out for blood.


Nephandi,

Allow me to express my sadness that such an awful thing has happened to you, your countrymen and your nation. Almost ten years to the day, the good folks of Norway offered to help the United States of America after it suffered the worst terrorist attack on its soil. I do believe, your countrymen would have come through with that request. Also, believe most of us could have used a hug at the time.

I understand the pain and suffering your now going through, by what you write. Its going to get uglier before it gets better, I'm sorry to say. But don't let in to the demands of those that seek retribution without thought or wisdom. They will lead you down a road full of war and destruction. But rather be thankful that things, while very bad, could have been worst. It'll take a long time for your country to heal the wound this person has created.

Even right now, I'm sure each country has or is conducting a search for any and all possible 'helpers' to this crime. If they exist, they'll be hunted down and eliminated I'm sure. An I'm sure many countries will offer help if your country needs it.

As for the death penalty, allow me a moment to give you some advise. The person accused, if found guilty will not live long in prison. There will always be someone who lost someone, that is currently imprisoned and decides on killing the person. They have nothing to lose as they are already in prison. If anything, maybe their parole will look favoribly on them for this. Yes, I know it sounds ugly and cruel. I did say things will get ugly before they get better, right? The ugly part will not last for very long, but, yes, it'll feel like forever.

If it helps, I'm sorry your country had this happen to it. And I'll be happy to give you a hug, should you want it.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 3:28:23 PM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
But if we ... proceed from the assumption that we can understand, and that there's probably a reason behind his actions that made sense to him at the time, then we can identify and understand the cause of this event.

If we do that, we can possibly fix the problem.

The murderer likely is a sociopath: somebody without a conscience. They often are born to murder. The less bright ones may murder at random. Others most definitely will murder for their own gain. Then there is yet another group again, who know that they must murder, but who feel that - or justify it like that - what they do must benefit humanity. A prime example is the fictional television character Dexter, who murders murderers who escape conviction. Hypothetically, they might decide that it will benefit society to murder people who litter, or to murder people who have their music on so loud that their neighbors are stressed out. In this case the murderer decided to murder children.

Thus, the motivation is the secondary factor in such murders. The primary factor is that a sociopath does it. (I have to say too that there are many more sociopaths who never murder.)

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 3:42:05 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
The person accused, if found guilty will not live long in prison. There will always be someone who lost someone, that is currently imprisoned and decides on killing the person.

Prison ought not to be a place where people are free to perpetrate crimes against other prisoners.

For the record: I am against prisons. Just chain a criminal to a pole on a platform or in a pit, and if someone throws them a scrap of bread, or gives them a blanket in winter, they will live. And if not, they will starve or freeze...

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/23/2011 4:04:39 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		I understand your feelings and see where you are coming from. However, the bottom line for me is that I am against it, no "but's." My faith in my anti-death penalty belief is shaken everytime something extremely heinous comes to light, esp. horrible abuse of children. I feel like they "deserve" to die according to my gut. But then rationality takes over and I know that I still believe our system is too fallible to support capital punishment........luci

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(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 60
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