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RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 8:20:37 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
I'm very angry about it all, and would cheerfully render harm to the individual concerned if he were in this room now. But I'd be wrong, and that's why laws are made - to be followed in circumstances where instinct and gut reaction fail us, and to maintain a sense of higher purpose within us.

Absolutely, and that's something some of the more hysterical over reactions from a few posters are missing: the law applies to everybody, however big a shit they are, and if you start banging on about special cases requiring special punishments, you might as well get rid of the whole legal apparatus and be done with it.

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RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 8:26:48 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Absolutely, and that's something some of the more hysterical over reactions from a few posters are missing: the law applies to everybody, however big a shit they are, and if you start banging on about special cases requiring special punishments, you might as well get rid of the whole legal apparatus and be done with it.


Ding and, may I venture to suggest, further ding.

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RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 8:34:42 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

Absolutely, and that's something some of the more hysterical over reactions from a few posters are missing: the law applies to everybody, however big a shit they are, and if you start banging on about special cases requiring special punishments, you might as well get rid of the whole legal apparatus and be done with it.


Yeeeeeeah, as long as appropriate punishment is given. It horrifies me when someone who is clearly a monster is given a sentence that means s/he will serve virtually no time and be out on the streets in a short time.


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RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 8:38:02 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Sorry, but either the same law applies to everybody, or it's worthless.

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RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 8:46:40 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Status: offline 		Moonhead I'm AGREEING with you. Please read my post again! I'm not saying that everyone shouldn't be given the same due process, what I'm saying is that sadly sentences that are too lenient are often given. 

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RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 8:48:52 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I wasn't arguing with that, just pointing out that the alternative is worse, dig?

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 8:51:35 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Status: offline 		In as much as I'm capable of it in this hot apartment, yes. 

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 9:14:27 AM   
FirstQuaker


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Status: offline 		A criminal code is in large part nothing but a list of things considered making war on the people drawing the code up together with a list of punitive measures hoping to discourage such conduct. Though often the criminals are not thinking they are making war, but merely stealing or robbing and such.

On the international level, most things done as acts of war are also considered very serious crimes by the nations involved and by others too.. HOwever on the international level, there is no higher power, and it is up to the  nations involved to discourage such attacks on themselves.

Individuals have always been able to wage war, on their own or other people, but must fear the consequences. Consider pirates who are deemed to be at war with all nations.

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RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 9:26:39 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		In fact, a lot of pirates were licensed by one nation to act as a sort of auxilliary naval force against the shipping of rival nations. Google "Privateer" sometime.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 9:51:59 AM   
FirstQuaker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

In fact, a lot of pirates were licensed by one nation to act as a sort of auxilliary naval force against the shipping of rival nations. Google "Privateer" sometime.


There was a legal difference between those with letters of marque and those without, that could affect the length of the crew's necks.

Privateers were the Blackwater of the day.



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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 1:23:13 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		A nice analogy, but the borders between piracy and freelance naval hostility under a letter of marque were more porous than they seem now, particularly as a lot of privateers didn't always restrict them to shipping from the nations that had been deemed fair game. Samuel Peyps had a fair bit to say about this iirc.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/24/2011 2:05:42 PM   
FirstQuaker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

A nice analogy, but the borders between piracy and freelance naval hostility under a letter of marque were more porous than they seem now, particularly as a lot of privateers didn't always restrict them to shipping from the nations that had been deemed fair game. Samuel Peyps had a fair bit to say about this iirc.


Perhaps,  but considering the various crimes Blackwater and their peers and rivals have been caught at world wide, the difference between the modern mercenaries and organized gangsters is not always that cut and dried either.  From drug running to murder for hire, the corporate military has been caught at everything any drug cartel or organized crime family has.

They are just not bold enough to take to the seas yet, modern nations still have enough military power to find and destroy any pirates bold enough to try openly operating any sort of real warships.

< Message edited by FirstQuaker -- 7/24/2011 2:06:39 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/25/2011 7:55:31 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Tell that to the Somalis.

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/25/2011 8:24:48 AM   
FirstQuaker


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Status: offline 		While they are obviously still skilled seafarers to be able to raid modern shipping thousands  of km offshore, with small open boats and hand weapons, I don't think the Puntish pirates will be operating any frigates or torpedo boats in the area any time soon.

Blackwater/Xe is known to be building its own navy and marine corp however.

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/25/2011 8:40:51 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		True enough. The Somali thing is purely based off small (mostly coastal, as you say) boats rather than warships. I missed that was what you were stressing.

The blackwater thing is an interesting notion: I wouldn't have thought even they had the money to blow on warships.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/25/2011 8:59:39 AM   
FirstQuaker


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Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Well they were not technically warships as they wer enot armed, the crew was.Mn ay countries, including both the US and Canada prohibit private persons and companies from outfitting or 'flagging'  'armed' vessels.

Probably true in the UK, too, yoiiuu  might take a look at what it woudl take to try and register your own functional destroyer.

But it looks like the flagship of the Blackwater navy is up for sale - http://blog.usni.org/2010/01/04/blackwaters-pirate-fighting-navy-has-sunk/

Not that some of the other dogs of war don't have vessels they can deploy from.

But yes, the answer is private individuals certainly can make war. According to the Torygraph, the Norwegian terrorist spent 132,000 pounds on his publicity stunt, which he recorded in his accounting of his plan in his manifesto.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/25/2011 11:17:28 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The Torygraph may not be the most reliable source for his finances: they'll probably be claiming that he acquired all £132,000 in a benefits swindle in the next paragraph, after all.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: I am against the death penalty but... - 7/25/2011 11:52:29 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Nephandi, all they have to do is give the guy his "21 years" then let him out in 30 days and let the Norwegian People give him one hell of a "blanket party."



I was thinking prison was going to be the safest place for him. Unless, like US prisons, Norwegian prisons are exceptionally hard on perps who abuse children.

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Profile   Post #: 118
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