RE: Amy Winehouse found dead

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 8:05:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Your lack of understanding an artist is not surprising. You probably only do things for the money, most if not all artists perform for much deeper and sometimes darker reasons. To see this is lost on you is par for the course. "Most if not all artists...." Do you know that many? Most musicians today may enjoy what they do for reasons other than money, but they also enjoy knowing they have a number one album, grammies, etc. Yes, they like the "acceptance" and "validation" for their art. I seriously doubt Amy Winehouse performed or made records for "deep, dark" reasons. I don't seriously doubt that Amy Winehouse had "deep, dark" problems that helped lead her to a life of addiction, which she chose not to get help for. Having seen the damage an addict does to their families and other loved ones, no I don't have all this sympathy for them or feel so sad when they die from their excess. I feel sad for their families for what they have gone through. Making statements like you think you know someone is always going to be ignorant when you know nothing about them. Nope, I wasn't terribly impressed with Winehouse's music. Not to my taste. I wasn't impressed with her lifestyle choices or the selfish, self destruct road to death she chose either. I choose to grieve for people I actually know and have a real life connection with as opposed to crying I never met. As I said, I feel sympathy for her family and loved ones. The fact that one fan chose to leave a bottle of vodka in lieu of flowers speaks volumes about the "message" she sent to people who listened to her.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 8:09:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth One small correction LL, she did go to rehab. For reasons only she knows and we certainly don't she left. Zeph Ok, so she CHOSE to leave rehab and continue using. Does that somehow make a difference? What the fuck is up your ass? You said she hadn't gone to rehab, I pointed out she had. Stop the press you were wrong! Why is that such a problem for you? Nothing is "up my ass." The point of my post and the spirit of what I said, is that Amy Winehouse CHOSE to not get help for her addiction. Leaving rehab after a short period of time to go out and get stoned doesn't change that. Sorry I'm not jumping on the grief train about a celebrity drug addict whose excess finally took their life.

tj444 -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 8:18:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady Personally, I think we all, as people who aren't celebrities, look at the lives of Winehouse, Cobain, Joplin, Hendrix, Belushi, etc. as something we just can't seem to understand. After all, these people were all where they wanted to be in their careers, and to us they were living their dream, playing their music, making movies, whatever. Maybe its once someone becomes famous, they cant trust anyone, everyones motives are suspect. How do you find love and a life partner that isnt a gold digger? I mean one that truly isnt? or one that understands the hours, the work schedule, the mood swings when they get a block and cant write the next hit song, the pressure to keep making those hits come, and the people that want to rip them off financially and family that needs $ or never having any privacy with the papparazzi always hovering and their super long prying camera lenses to get that shot of them dressing in their bathroom, not to mention friends, family and people that work for you tempted to sell the real story on them for a couple of bucks and all sorts of nasty stuff written about you and having to sue when its false, etc, etc... ..there are two sides to living that dream...

LafayetteLady -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 8:49:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady Personally, I think we all, as people who aren't celebrities, look at the lives of Winehouse, Cobain, Joplin, Hendrix, Belushi, etc. as something we just can't seem to understand. After all, these people were all where they wanted to be in their careers, and to us they were living their dream, playing their music, making movies, whatever. Maybe its once someone becomes famous, they cant trust anyone, everyones motives are suspect. How do you find love and a life partner that isnt a gold digger? I mean one that truly isnt? or one that understands the hours, the work schedule, the mood swings when they get a block and cant write the next hit song, the pressure to keep making those hits come, and the people that want to rip them off financially and family that needs $ or never having any privacy with the papparazzi always hovering and their super long prying camera lenses to get that shot of them dressing in their bathroom, not to mention friends, family and people that work for you tempted to sell the real story on them for a couple of bucks and all sorts of nasty stuff written about you and having to sue when its false, etc, etc... ..there are two sides to living that dream... I agree completely, there are two sides to living the dream. I would say as far as a partner is concerned, that would be why most celebrities tend to hook up with other celebrities who understand those issues. However, given the number of celebrities, whether it be movie stars, musicians or anything else, the number that manage to not die from addictions, or get help with their addictions is higher than the number who fail. So maybe it is more a matter of people wanting to live a dream they aren't equipped to deal with.

heartcream -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 9:27:10 PM)
quote: Lafayette I seriously doubt Amy Winehouse performed or made records for "deep, dark" reasons. I don't seriously doubt that Amy Winehouse had "deep, dark" problems that helped lead her to a life of addiction, which she chose not to get help for. You seriously doubt she made her music for "deep dark" reasons? I dont think you are one who would have the answer to that. If you had read anything about her you would know you were wrong. She only felt in control and comfortable inside her music. She was given anti depressants by a doctor at 16. Some help really sucks. You dont like her, whatever, up to you. You also dont get her at all and that is evident. I am sorry about your brother, that sucks enormously. I am sorry for her dad. I am sorry her life ended and she was positively oozing in talent. She wouldnt float everyone's boat but no one does.

xssve -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 9:41:18 PM)
Hey hey, my my...

Edwynn -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 9:58:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady Personally, I think we all, as people who aren't celebrities, look at the lives of Winehouse, Cobain, Joplin, Hendrix, Belushi, etc. as something we just can't seem to understand. After all, these people were all where they wanted to be in their careers, and to us they were living their dream, playing their music, making movies, whatever. Maybe its once someone becomes famous, they cant trust anyone, everyones motives are suspect. How do you find love and a life partner that isnt a gold digger? I mean one that truly isnt? or one that understands the hours, the work schedule, the mood swings when they get a block and cant write the next hit song, the pressure to keep making those hits come, and the people that want to rip them off financially and family that needs $ or never having any privacy with the papparazzi always hovering and their super long prying camera lenses to get that shot of them dressing in their bathroom, not to mention friends, family and people that work for you tempted to sell the real story on them for a couple of bucks and all sorts of nasty stuff written about you and having to sue when its false, etc, etc... ..there are two sides to living that dream... I agree completely, there are two sides to living the dream. I would say as far as a partner is concerned, that would be why most celebrities tend to hook up with other celebrities who understand those issues. However, given the number of celebrities, whether it be movie stars, musicians or anything else, the number that manage to not die from addictions, or get help with their addictions is higher than the number who fail. So maybe it is more a matter of people wanting to live a dream they aren't equipped to deal with. You fail to see that almost all of these folks that wanted to "be a star" pursued that route because they were taught from an early age by society, not the parents, that it was the only route to self expression and giving of their talent. It has only gotten worse here lately, and for those that need an explanation ... The money and fame is a market and business phenomenon, not always an artistic one. The artiste has one agenda, the movie producers, record labels, the 'up-skirt'-oriented hyper-obsessed media another agenda entirely. Please stifle all this utter ignorance in claiming that every performer of whatever variety actually seeks or wants all this extraneous ignorance and dart throwing from the clueless, for mere sake of mammon. And even if talking of Tom Cruise or Julia Roberts; well nice on them too. They deserve our praise for not committing suicide, by your estimation, even though it benefit the art were either or both scenarios to transpire.

tj444 -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/25/2011 10:23:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I agree completely, there are two sides to living the dream. I would say as far as a partner is concerned, that would be why most celebrities tend to hook up with other celebrities who understand those issues. However, given the number of celebrities, whether it be movie stars, musicians or anything else, the number that manage to not die from addictions, or get help with their addictions is higher than the number who fail. So maybe it is more a matter of people wanting to live a dream they aren't equipped to deal with. lots of people that arent stars do the very same thing, they use drugs or booze to escape whatever pain they have had in their life. Just they dont make the news. Being famous just means they may have more $ and access to their drug of choice. Whatever demons haunted her didnt go away when she became famous..

LafayetteLady -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/26/2011 2:03:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I agree completely, there are two sides to living the dream. I would say as far as a partner is concerned, that would be why most celebrities tend to hook up with other celebrities who understand those issues. However, given the number of celebrities, whether it be movie stars, musicians or anything else, the number that manage to not die from addictions, or get help with their addictions is higher than the number who fail. So maybe it is more a matter of people wanting to live a dream they aren't equipped to deal with. lots of people that arent stars do the very same thing, they use drugs or booze to escape whatever pain they have had in their life. Just they dont make the news. Being famous just means they may have more $ and access to their drug of choice. Whatever demons haunted her didnt go away when she became famous.. Yep, gaining fame and popularity doesn't chase away your demons, but rather opens the door wider to allow them in with larger income.

tj444 -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/26/2011 6:55:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady Yep, gaining fame and popularity doesn't chase away your demons, but rather opens the door wider to allow them in with larger income. and... imo, it makes it much harder to overcome those addictions.. everyone is watching every move you make, all is reported in the media espeically your failures,... different people pulling you in different directions based on what they want, not what is good for you.. people treat you differently i am sure from the inmates at rehab to the shrinks... .. but one does not need to be addicted to commit suicide, other famous people have taken their own lives directly too... imo, for anyone to die before their time is sad... sad because for them the demons won..

imperatrixx -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/26/2011 7:05:25 AM)
-FR- I don't feel sympathy for Amy either. Not because she was a drug addict, but because she didn't want sympathy. Amy knew she was an addict. She knew she was living a destructive lifestyle. Her songs reflect that. Her music is heroin chic, melancholy self destruction...including her most popular one where she blatantly says she does not want to go to rehab, she'd rather be at home listening to Ray Charles and Donny Hathaway. So no. Don't pity her. She was perfectly aware of her lifestyle choices and the danger associated with it. She was a beautiful, talented woman who lived her life as she saw fit. Mourn the loss of her talent if you want, but please, please, don't pity her. If you want to pity her you might as well go spit on her grave and say the flame she burned with was worthless.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/26/2011 11:06:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx -FR- I don't feel sympathy for Amy either. Not because she was a drug addict, but because she didn't want sympathy. Amy knew she was an addict. She knew she was living a destructive lifestyle. Her songs reflect that. Her music is heroin chic, melancholy self destruction...including her most popular one where she blatantly says she does not want to go to rehab, she'd rather be at home listening to Ray Charles and Donny Hathaway. So no. Don't pity her. She was perfectly aware of her lifestyle choices and the danger associated with it. She was a beautiful, talented woman who lived her life as she saw fit. Mourn the loss of her talent if you want, but please, please, don't pity her. If you want to pity her you might as well go spit on her grave and say the flame she burned with was worthless. That's kind of my point. The only thing an addict like that cares about is their next fix. They aren't worried about the pain they are causing others, or even the pain they are causing themselves. Did some reading about Winehouse's rehab attempts today. She took it as a joke. She wasn't interested in getting any help. Now her family doesn't have to worry and wonder anymore "when" she is going to turn up dead. Her mother admitted she grieved for her before she even died. Smart woman. Continuing to pray and hope in her situation would have only caused her more pain.

Moonhead -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 4:57:05 AM)
On the other hand, there's plenty of people who can last a long while with an addiction (or three), particularly if they're earning enough to keep it fed: just look at William Burroughs or Shane McGowan.

Anaxagoras -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 6:08:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead On the other hand, there's plenty of people who can last a long while with an addiction (or three), particularly if they're earning enough to keep it fed: just look at William Burroughs or Shane McGowan. Albeit technically still alive in the same sense as an amoeba, I don't know if Shane McGowan is still functioning in any sense artistically unless one counts live performances which consist of tottering around on stage croaking to music.

Moonhead -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 8:12:47 AM)
There is that. There was an alarming story in the NME a few years back about him shitting himself on stage. (Iirc, "A Pair Of Brown pants" was the headline in the NME...) On the other hand, Keith Richards is holding up pretty well, and John Martyn was in pretty good shape until he lost his leg and fell apart, which Danny Thompson has been claiming wasn't purely down to the booze.

Phoenixpower -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 8:33:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth Loooooooove Kraftwerk! Rammstein not so much... I don't care about any of those two. However, I simply disagree about her being handled as being the oh so great wonderful superstar for which each country should be fallen now (from certain posters)[8\|] when quite frankly there are many artists out there (though in other genres) who are just as good and some of them better and so quite frankly it ain't bothering much over here and I am sure that she very likely would not have been mentioned in the news, if she would have died outside of the summer time where the news are happy about such gap fillers in their programme. Overall I can only agree with LafayetteLady's view [:)] and really couldn't care less about her having left [:)]

Moonhead -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 1:02:42 PM)
Fair enough, but for Brits of my age the proper German bands are the '70s Krautrock massive. I'm particularly fond of Kraftwerk, meself, but Can, Faust and Amon Duul 2 (a sort of muso hawkwind! What's not to love?) are magnificent as well. That's without getting into the fact that those Bowie albums the bald tit out of Roxy got mad props for were basically just rip offs of Symphonia... There's plenty more stuff since that's good (Nina Hagen, Einsturzende Neubaten, Propaganda and Die Krupps in particular), but that was a very fat motherlode indeed. People are still mining it even now. Julian Cope would still be shitting out fading pastiches of Reward if he didn't have that to draw on instead, to pick the most obvious example...

Anaxagoras -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 1:23:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead There is that. There was an alarming story in the NME a few years back about him shitting himself on stage. (Iirc, "A Pair Of Brown pants" was the headline in the NME...) On the other hand, Keith Richards is holding up pretty well, and John Martyn was in pretty good shape until he lost his leg and fell apart, which Danny Thompson has been claiming wasn't purely down to the booze. I thought Keef "Turtle's scrotum" Richards was clean for a few years now? Two years ago he even offered Winehouse some advice http://www.showbizspy.com/article/60563/keith-richards-urges-amy-winehouse-to-clean-up-her-act.html quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Fair enough, but for Brits of my age the proper German bands are the '70s Krautrock massive. I'm particularly fond of Kraftwerk, meself, but Can, Faust and Amon Duul 2 (a sort of muso hawkwind! What's not to love?) are magnificent as well. That's without getting into the fact that those Bowie albums the bald tit out of Roxy got mad props for were basically just rip offs of Symphonia... Its true, Bowie and Eno took some artistic liberties. In a sense Tony Visconti contributed a lot of the most innovative aspects (i.e. production/sound engineering) to Bowie's triology. Favourite Kraftwerk album has to be "The Man Machine".

imperatrixx -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 1:29:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady That's kind of my point. The only thing an addict like that cares about is their next fix. They aren't worried about the pain they are causing others, or even the pain they are causing themselves. Did some reading about Winehouse's rehab attempts today. She took it as a joke. She wasn't interested in getting any help. Now her family doesn't have to worry and wonder anymore "when" she is going to turn up dead. Her mother admitted she grieved for her before she even died. Smart woman. Continuing to pray and hope in her situation would have only caused her more pain. Your point and my point are polar fucking opposites.

Moonhead -> RE: Amy Winehouse found dead (7/27/2011 1:29:48 PM)
That's a wonderful record. Either that one or Trans Europe Express for me. Visconti was a really good producer. You only have to take a quick listen to Transformer to see his skill for polishing turds: can you imagine how unlistenable that one would have been if they'd just left Reed to it? (Pity they didn't let him loose on Raw power instead of letting Bowie produce it in a toilet cistern...)

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