RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation"

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RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 7/31/2011 3:12:02 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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your once great country is in the shitter because of your dumbarse governments who want to rule and rape the world and dont have a clue how to make sure its sustainable and gave everything to the corporations
nothing to do with the poor except they were "expendable" in the face of technology and greed.
Youve screwed yourself, but of course its the homeless and the poor who have all the control and funds, they just fucked themselves over by believing that working hard was going to be enough to live on.

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(in reply to gaybottomslave)

Post #: 81

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 7/31/2011 3:21:50 PM

gaybottomslave

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

thanks for clearing that up!

left = give money away

right = give no money away.

"isle" people are all loons

I'm sorry but these lefty righty arguments are so fucking infantile I could puke.

You're 100% right about the left wanting to give money (as long as it is not theirs) away.

Why should someone be allowed to suck off the public trough? This country is completely fucked because too many people think that it is okay to be a lazy, worthless, leech.

I've said it before, I'm not totally against welfare...but welfare should be a helping hand up--not a permanent way of life.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 82

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 7/31/2011 3:32:34 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

your once great country is in the shitter because of your dumbarse governments who want to rule and rape the world and dont have a clue how to make sure its sustainable and gave everything to the corporations
nothing to do with the poor except they were "expendable" in the face of technology and greed.
Youve screwed yourself, but of course its the homeless and the poor who have all the control and funds, they just fucked themselves over by believing that working hard was going to be enough to live on.

nice post!

what lucy said!

That is what de-MOBcracy does you see.

it pits one MOB of VOTERS against the other MOB of VOTERS in a perpetual NO WIN ass kicking contest of and over bullshit ENTITLEMENTS because everyone has been suckered into thinking they will get something out of "it" and that would not exist if the constitution had been adhered to, the common law and republic maintained.

The only way any one of you all can be remotely credible is if you want to get rid of literally all taxation and all entitlements, except life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Otherwise its the same shit different day of pots calling kettles black

doo de dah!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/31/2011 3:33:57 PM >

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(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 83

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 7/31/2011 3:59:32 PM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaybottomslave
Why should someone be allowed to suck off the public trough? This country is completely fucked because too many people think that it is okay to be a lazy, worthless, leech.

Good question.

Why don't we ask Exxon and GE and Monsanto and Goldman Sachs and Koch Brothers and a host of other leaches on the US Treasury why they keep stealing our money even while posting record breaking profits?

Oh, that's right, it's because YOU voted for the bitches that turned on the hydrants.

Stupidity can't be helped, I understand, but duct tape isn't too expensive and could do wonders in making you sound less stupid, if properly applied.

Find a neighbor to help you out there.

I'm not saying that giving more money to poor people would solve all problems here. I am saying that giving the richest bastards such a large portion of tax dollars causes problems beyond initial cost, substantial as that is. Problems that create more jobless and homeless.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/31/2011 4:22:15 PM >

(in reply to gaybottomslave)

Post #: 84

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 7/31/2011 9:46:03 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaybottomslave

You're 100% right about the left wanting to give money (as long as it is not theirs) away.

Why should someone be allowed to suck off the public trough? This country is completely fucked because too many people think that it is okay to be a lazy, worthless, leech.

I've said it before, I'm not totally against welfare...but welfare should be a helping hand up--not a permanent way of life.

The largest single reason why the US is so much in debt is the two wars in Asia - both of which were initiated by a Republican President:

Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan
Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
$1,225,310,385,917
http://www.costofwar.com/

I am unsure how much the US has contributed towards keeping its poor and needy alive and housed during the same period. But I gravely doubt if the figure remotely approaches the average c$122,531,000,000 per annum spent on wars, one of which was totally unnecessary. That more is spent causing death and mayhem overseas than keeping your own citizens alive speaks for itself.

So the causes of your country's debt problems have far more to do with the "lazy, worthless, leech[es]" in the Bush Administration, which enriched their plutocrat buddies through the wars at the expense of the poor US taxpayer than the homeless or the needy.

If you wish to solve this problem, a good place to start is identifying precisely what caused the problem and then remedying the defect. Reining in the bloated defence budget, increasing taxation on the oligarchs and withdrawing tax concessions to the giant corporations and the rich would be an effective beginning.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/31/2011 9:53:05 PM >

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Post #: 85

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 7/31/2011 10:50:56 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
$1,225,310,385,917
http://www.costofwar.com/

I am unsure how much the US has contributed towards keeping its poor and needy alive and housed during the same period. But I gravely doubt if the figure remotely approaches the average c$122,531,000,000 per annum spent on wars, one of which was totally unnecessary.

Not even close. Welfare spending in the US during that period averaged 4x that per year during the same period.

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Post #: 86

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 7/31/2011 11:21:13 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
$1,225,310,385,917
http://www.costofwar.com/

I am unsure how much the US has contributed towards keeping its poor and needy alive and housed during the same period. But I gravely doubt if the figure remotely approaches the average c$122,531,000,000 per annum spent on wars, one of which was totally unnecessary.

Not even close. Welfare spending in the US during that period averaged 4x that per year during the same period.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 87

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 12:07:36 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

Willbur you really ought to know that Social Security and Social Insurance taxes bring in approx 40% of the US Govt's income. So Social Security almost pays for itself and Medicare/Medicaid (which together account for 43% of total US Govt expenditure). The shortfall or subsidy from General Revenue is c 3%. So the nett cost (revenue minus expenditure) to the US taxpayer is small.

And in the chart you supplied, the max annual figure for the cost of 'Welfare" was $701 billion in 2010. Considerably less than the figures on the annual cost of Iraq/Afghanistan supplied above, not 4 times more.

All figures from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Major_expenditure_categories

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Post #: 88

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 7:52:42 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Willbur you really ought to know that Social Security and Social Insurance taxes bring in approx 40% of the US Govt's income. So Social Security almost pays for itself and Medicare/Medicaid (which together account for 43% of total US Govt expenditure). The shortfall or subsidy from General Revenue is c 3%. So the nett cost (revenue minus expenditure) to the US taxpayer is small.

And in the chart you supplied, the max annual figure for the cost of 'Welfare" was $701 billion in 2010. Considerably less than the figures on the annual cost of Iraq/Afghanistan supplied above, not 4 times more.

All figures from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Major_expenditure_categories

You really ought to know that $701 billion IN ONE YEAR is far more than the ANNUAL cost of the wars that over 10 YEARS, especially since thats the very question you asked. The average over the same period was a bit above 4x as I said.

You also really ought to know that Social Security and Health benefits (Medicare/Medicaid) werent included in the graph's numbers, so your nonsense about
40% of the governments income is your usual diversionary bullshit.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Post #: 89

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 8:02:45 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Asswipe. There is no budget item called welfare.

By far the largest category in there is federal retirement and disability followed by unemployment INSURANCE (something a peddler should know about).

Having been paid in, now you whine cuz we have to pay off?

Get a fuckin' job.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/1/2011 8:05:10 AM >

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Post #: 90

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 8:34:28 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

How we define a term or a word makes a big difference in a rational discussion.

I participate on vanilla Internet discussion boards on the topics of Politics & Religion as well as this one.

On one, I posted my concern that, if the government went into default, my Army retirement check (I served 27 years combined active Army and Army Reserves) and my military disability check (hearing loss due to an exploding IED) might be affected.

One self-identified Tea Party supporter responded that my Army retirement check and my military disability checks were "entitlements" and not "obligations". The poster took the position that military retirement checks and military disability checks were the same as welfare checks and should be eliminated as part of the overall plan to reduce "big government" and "excessive government spending".

I contend that my Army retirement checks and my disability checks are "obligations" on the part of the federal government based on the contract I made with the United States for my 27 years of military service.

I acknowledge that this individual, though they claim to be a Tea Party member, may not reflect the general position of all Tea Party members.

In the context of federal government expenditures, do you define retirement checks and medical disability checks to military and civilian federal government employees "entitlements" or "obligations"?

First and foremost, THANK YOU for your 27 years of military service!

Secondly, military pay (active duty and retired), healthcare and disability compensation are absolutely, posititvely OBLIGATIONS of the Federal government per the enlistment contract it entered into with military personel.

Third, no true Tea Party supporter would take the position that military recompense is the same as welfare.

Fourth, I am a Tea Party supporter.

Fifth, I am a Vietnam Veteran and consider my VA benefits as OBLIGATIONS of the Federal government per the enlistment contract it entered into with me.

Sixth, two days ago while visiting our troops in Afghanistan, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairnan Admiral Mullen told those troops he doesn't know if they will get paid if a debt ceiling deal doesn't get passed by August 2. If Admiral Mullen truely doesn't know, or does but doesn't have the guts to call Obama's bluff, then he should immediately resign.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 91

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 8:39:54 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

Its hard to believe there are 80+ posts between yours and mine chewing over what seemed to be a straightforward question with a straightforward LEGAL answer!

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/1/2011 8:40:14 AM >

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Post #: 92

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 8:42:51 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

The poster took the position that military retirement checks and military disability checks were the same as welfare checks and should be eliminated as part of the overall plan to reduce "big government" and "excessive government spending".

Some people are idiots. We had one on here the other day claiming that police officers are "sucking on the government tit" because their pay comes from public funds. You will never convince people like this of the truth. Just ignore him and move on.

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(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 93

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 9:16:47 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

The poster took the position that military retirement checks and military disability checks were the same as welfare checks and should be eliminated as part of the overall plan to reduce "big government" and "excessive government spending".

Some people are idiots. We had one on here the other day claiming that police officers are "sucking on the government tit" because their pay comes from public funds. You will never convince people like this of the truth. Just ignore him and move on.

Was that the claim or was it that poorly structured union promulgated pension plans have the potential to vastly inflate the value of their benefits beyond what is reasonable? I agree with you, if its the former, its ridiculous.

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Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 94

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 9:22:24 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

It should go without saying, but I will say it anyway....

The US military is not unionized.

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Post #: 95

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 11:29:11 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

your once great country is in the shitter because of your dumbarse governments who want to rule and rape the world and dont have a clue how to make sure its sustainable and gave everything to the corporations
nothing to do with the poor except they were "expendable" in the face of technology and greed.
Youve screwed yourself, but of course its the homeless and the poor who have all the control and funds, they just fucked themselves over by believing that working hard was going to be enough to live on.

nice post!

what lucy said!

That is what de-MOBcracy does you see.

it pits one MOB of VOTERS against the other MOB of VOTERS in a perpetual NO WIN ass kicking contest of and over bullshit ENTITLEMENTS because everyone has been suckered into thinking they will get something out of "it" and that would not exist if the constitution had been adhered to, the common law and republic maintained.

The only way any one of you all can be remotely credible is if you want to get rid of literally all taxation and all entitlements, except life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Otherwise its the same shit different day of pots calling kettles black

doo de dah!

I know you're a man who enjoys getting his shit wrong, but you live in a republic, not a democracy.

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(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 96

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 11:30:48 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It should go without saying, but I will say it anyway....

The US military is not unionized.

I wonder if they'd send in the National Guard as strike breakers if it was unionised?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Post #: 97

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 11:34:20 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Actually they have sent federal and state troops as strikebreakers long after the Posse Comitatus Act was made law.

Carnagie Steel in NY comes to mind right off....

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Post #: 98

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 11:40:15 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

Right. I was thinking more of the depression, but there's a few cases long after they're meant to have stopped doing that, aren't there?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 99

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement"... - 8/1/2011 12:17:13 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, not everybody seems to get the news.......

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(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 100

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