RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (Full Version)

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NuevaVida -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 8:08:41 PM)

LOL! 

Okay, Hannah. [;)]



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 8:17:56 PM)

here's how i see it.
why do you submit? because it gets you off, it's your kink. it is an expression of your particular sexuality. heather gets wet washing the floor, its overtly fucking sexual to her. i don't get wet telling her to wash the floor, but i sure as fuck like having the authority to tell her. it is one of ways i express my sexuality. submitting is one of the fucking ways you express yours.

why do you write those journals? he told you to, right? well why do you do what he tells you to? because it is the natural order of things and as a woman you must obey your man? no you do it because it makes you feel good to do it. not in the "i bought my mum a book" feel good, but way fucking deep down inside where it's dark and scary and you can't explain shit. that's where it feels good. and that's where fucking happens too. way down in the hole, buried under all the shit and crap we wrap ourselves in to be civilized, way down in your most primitive self, where there are only three drives. eat, survive, fuck. you are driven to eat so you can survive, and you are driven to survive so you can fuck. fucking is the prime directive, its your sole biological purpose.

that's where your submission lives, that's where my dominance lives, it's where all of wiitwd lives. and its not eating, its not surviving, so it has to be fucking.

think about it, think it all the way through, and if you still honestly think i'm wrong, tell me how.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 8:19:32 PM)

nah you're never wrong hannah; the way things work for you and heather are obviously the only ways they work for anyone ever on earth ever unto perpetuity ad infinitum, etc.
(everyone knows we've been down this road with you shouting "i'm right, you're wrong" at anyone who thinks differently than you (even to LadyPact, of all people), so i really don't know why you expect people to engage you anymore. i'm not going to.)



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 8:24:29 PM)

and all of you keep shouting at me that you are all right and i'm wrong. but tell me this, where does your submission stem from if not from your most primal self? it's not something you put on and off, submitting to the right person is as natural to you as eating and shitting, isn't it?



Awareness -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 8:43:29 PM)

  Unfortunately, shagnuts is right.  The D/s interaction is fundamentally about fucking.  People can bleat all they like about service subs and the like, but that shit is just exploiting the stupid or broken.  People engage in this shit because it turns their crank.  And the most primal crank-turning we bother with is fucking.

I've never met a sub yet, who hit subspace without being phenomenally turned on.  And the desire to please which drives many subs and slaves is based upon a reciprocal response from the dominant.  It's about interaction, it's about response, on some level, it's always about fucking.



leadership527 -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 8:56:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
You know, I'm wondering if my posts are coming across really wrong or something, because I'm not *defending* online, I'm just not understanding what people get out of telling the onliner's they're doing it wrong, or living in a fantasy, or anything else.  I guess I'm just not in the camp who finds fulfillment out of discounting the experiences of others.

This, also, is fairly easy to understand.

It's a really, really hard thing to do to get into someone else's mindset if their viewpoint is substantially different than your own. Most people don't even try. Even when you try, it's hard as hell.

So what that means is anything outside of someone's personal experience is "impossible" or "wrong". So if someone has not ever treated "online" in a serious fashion, then to them it's not serious and they cannot even conceive of anyone else seeing it differently. There is just isn't such a category in their head and there's no way to get one there. To them, it in fact is impossible and always will be. That is the ultimate problem with an inability to see outside one's own skin.

This same thing is the basis for pretty much all the "fake" accusations and a fair number of the "abusive" allegations. It accounts for why the TPE people get accused of "living in a fantasy". It's why the goreans and BDSM'ers don't mix. It actually explains a lot of things. In my opinion, it is small minds doing the small mind thing. And yes, it is human nature.

Now, as to why then, not understanding and seeing it as flatly impossible or, in Hannah's case just recently, downright evil... they post because... well... because they think they are right. Additionally, they may post simply because they think they can lift themselves up by pushing other people down. That also is a time-honored human tradition. You know, actually asking questions might make it look like they don't already posses infinite knowledge.



BitaTruble -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 9:02:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcademyForSlaves

Hi.

There's such a difference of opinion on if online slavery is real slavery or if it's only real if it's in person, yet there's so many slaves that like being dominated online. We're all even online now as we read this forum. So what's your opinion? Do you like online slavery like we do or do you only like it in person, and why?


It's not my thing but whatever trips your trigger. It really doesn't afffect me one way or the other.



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 9:04:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

...others say if it's in the mind but not also physical, then it's not real.



I was hungry... I closed my eyes and saw a juicy, cheese, mushroom, and onion smothered hamburger in my mind and envisioned eating it -- and yes, I pigged out on the cheese-paper too.  Then I opened my eyes... I was still hungry. [8D]




LadyPact -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 9:24:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
(everyone knows we've been down this road with you shouting "i'm right, you're wrong" at anyone who thinks differently than you (even to LadyPact, of all people), so i really don't know why you expect people to engage you anymore. i'm not going to.)

For what it's worth, I firmly believe in the principle of "questioning your elders".  This is how we grow.  I don't want anybody on this site to ever think that I never challenged anyone.  Yes, sometimes, I got slapped the hell down.  More than once in this journey, I've been told, SHOWN, that I didn't know crap about whatever I was talking about.  Granted, it doesn't happen much these days, but it's still there.

On this subject, however, I am still not convinced.  If I can not touch a thing, it does not have the same validity to Me.  Touch taste, and smell are still categorized among the senses. 

A person can pretend all they like.  It does not affect Me.  Shut the internet connection off and see how often the 'pay for play domme' cares about the poor shmuck who isn't handing over the cash for the fantasy.  So few even bother to recognize that if the internet goes down for a few months, no deposit in the bank account, that was the only connection they had.

Prove Me wrong.  Those "online only" folks.  Shut your computer off for six months or a year.  Two years?  Ten?

Just don't be angry at Me.



NuevaVida -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 9:25:01 PM)

Hi Jeff,

Yeah, you make good points.  I understand the difficulty of trying to understand a mindset different than your own.  I try, and sometimes fail greatly at that.  But if I'm not understanding, then I just chalk it up to "Ok, they think differently than me, and I'm just going to let this one go with the thought that maybe I'll understand it later." 

As for that human nature thing, I'll agree with you there, too.  I suppose some people own and protect what they believe to be true, because to do otherwise can feel like you've lost something.  It's a mindset I had, a long time ago.  The way I see it now, I'm pretty comfortable in my own views, so if someone disagrees I don't see it as a threat of some sort. Depending on my interest level, I might try to figure out those differences in views, because I might learn something about myself along the way.  But after awhile, if the other party isn't interested in actual productive dialogue, I move on.

I don't know about your characterization of evil, though.  Evil is pretty damn dark and I think very few people are capable of it. I think fear drives most of what's behind what looks like evil on the outset. I say this because that's where I used to come from in earlier days.  But hey, it's all good.  People are who they are, and they're wherever they need to be at any given time.  While I don't always understand negative behaviors, I still feel the urge to question them from time to time.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 9:44:12 PM)

i can generally agree with Jeff's points. even if i say "i believe X about Y," i still hope someone who thinks B about Y will come and explain to me and maybe change my mind, or at least give me some insight into why they believe what they do. that's the most interesting thing about talking to people, at least to me. that's why i don't tend to put my own opinions in OPs; i want to hear what other people think and have an exchange. and i do believe in questioning your elders, to answer that point. but to me, there's a way to have a dialogue with someone. there's a way to make another person want to engage you and feel like an exchange with you is worthwhile, and we're a little short on that around these parts. if you feel like you're running into a brick wall, common sense says "stop, turn around, go somewhere else, or climb the wall and forget about it."

to me, when i do something for someone, i get a warm fuzzy feeling. sometimes there are things about it that turn me on, but that's not "warm and fuzzy." if i wash dishes for someone who appreciates it, it IS like "bought my mom a book" good to me at times. i don't feel any one thing the same way every time i do it, so i can't and won't say "that's how it is all the time." i won't deny that i am turned on by control, i'm turned on by a Dominant personality interacting with me. but i also feel a ton of other things, too, that warm and fuzzy feeling is a big one. i want to make someone's day better, period. it's the same part of me that volunteers, the same part of me that rescues animals, tutors people and teaches. that, to me, is part of what service is and it isn't always about sex.
i want to belong to someone because it's comfortable for me. it makes me feel safe and like i belong. an Owner is someone who sees something in me worth possessing, and since i'm also looking for a romantic relationship, there are sexual aspects to that, too, but BDSM and power exchange aren't the same thing. they can occur together, but they aren't the same. power exchange is not always about sex, whereas BDSM sure as hell usually is (and of course there are plenty of people who will say that BDSM is not about sex for them, either; i don't agree with them, but maybe that opinion is totally right for them).

being turned on isn't the only thing i feel; i feel comfortable, i feel normal. i like watching the movies someone else wants to watch, i like eating the foods someone else wants to eat, talking about things that matter to them, reading books they like, going places that are important to them. and anyone who knows me knows that i'm fully functional and have plenty of my own opinions, theories, and hobbies. i'm not a broken or malformed person; i have gone through a great deal of shit and managed to put myself back together every time. but that's just who i am and who i have always been. there are aspects of it that are about sex, sure, but the WHOLE of it is most definitely not 100% sex for me.



BitaTruble -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 9:49:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

  Unfortunately, shagnuts is right.  The D/s interaction is fundamentally about fucking.  People can bleat all they like about service subs and the like, but that shit is just exploiting the stupid or broken.  People engage in this shit because it turns their crank.  And the most primal crank-turning we bother with is fucking.

I've never met a sub yet, who hit subspace without being phenomenally turned on.  And the desire to please which drives many subs and slaves is based upon a reciprocal response from the dominant.  It's about interaction, it's about response, on some level, it's always about fucking.


I can't get to subspace when I'm turned on. If I'm wet from whatever, my pussy gets itchy for something hard and solid. Since filling that need would most likely bring about excruiting and unbearable *bad* pain and leave me doubled over in the fetal position, I don't much enjoy getting turned on then left feeling frustated because I can't get to the end result. The actual fucking part. Anything beyond clitoral stimulation is generally a thing of the past for me. Subspace is completely different. Hard unrelenting *good* pain is the only way for me to get to there. Subspace is the shut down that takes place when my body can't take whats happening anymore and my mind says.. "Say what? Fuck this.. let's go on vacation."

Himself is going to be 60 years old soon. He's a diabetic. He's has high blood pressure. He takes tons of medication to stay alive and he has had ED for several years as well as Peyronies disease. I have horrible endometriosis. Fucking is near impossible for us and we rarely even try anymore. We do other stuff. Lots of other stuff. Some of it is very spiritual for us, like ritual blood letting, some of it is cathartic, some of it is just plain silly fun.

We don't have a BDSM or M/s script we follow.. BDSM and M/s are what WE allow them to be to us. They slave to us.. not the other way around.

BDSM or D/s or M/s.. maybe it's all about fucking to you and others, but 'we' are not you or others. We are in a different place. It's a good place for us. We are happy here. We deal with our issues and seek no quarter from anyone else.

BDSM, D/s and M/s are all about power. If it's not all about power for you... then obviously you are doing it all wrong. How about them apples?

Jesus christ.. open your fucking mind and get some actual awareness that the world and the people in it do NOT fit into this narrow little paradigm you've created in your own mind.. or at the very least quit thinking that you have any ability whatsoever to change my universe and make it look like yours. Yours is far too vanilla for my taste.











leadership527 -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 10:03:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
Even if i say "i believe X about Y," i still hope someone who thinks B about Y will come and explain to me and maybe change my mind, or at least give me some insight into why they believe what they do.

This is me too. In my experience, some people live to be right. Within limits, I prefer to be wrong -- at least in this context. That way I learn and grow.

I love weedling away at conundrums [to me] like the entire "Cannot leave" crowd. I was quite pleased when I finally understood it. Hell, the whole sexual dominance and submission gig was an utter mystery to me for the longest time. I cannot even tell you how many relationships I've run across that started out as "you gotta be kidding" in my head and ended up at, "Yeah, I can see how that works for you two."

Oh yeah... and laughably, TPE was kind of "you gotta be kidding" to me. I ran into some guy's slave early on and asked the limb-chopping question and she said after careful deliberation, "Yes I would". Man, I was nearly scarred for life. Nowadays that is exactly where Carol and I are at -- or nearing anyway. I have learned a lot since then -- largely from agirl in this case.



BitaTruble -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 10:20:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

This is me too. In my experience, some people live to be right. Within limits, I prefer to be wrong -- at least in this context. That way I learn and grow.

I love weedling away at conundrums [to me] like the entire "Cannot leave" crowd. I was quite pleased when I finally understood it. Hell, the whole sexual dominance and submission gig was an utter mystery to me for the longest time. I cannot even tell you how many relationships I've run across that started out as "you gotta be kidding" in my head and ended up at, "Yeah, I can see how that works for you two."

Oh yeah... and laughably, TPE was kind of "you gotta be kidding" to me. I ran into some guy's slave early on and asked the limb-chopping question and she said after careful deliberation, "Yes I would". Man, I was nearly scarred for life. Nowadays that is exactly where Carol and I are at -- or nearing anyway. I have learned a lot since then -- largely from agirl in this case.


You know, Leadership.. I don't always agree with you but I gotta say that of all the 'doms' on these forums, I do believe you have been told more often than any other how you do all this shit wrong. If you and Carol are this stupid happy doing it wrong all this time, imagine what's going to happen when you finally start doing it right!

Of course, what the fuck do I know. I've been doing it wrong for the last 30 years myself. Welcome to the Wacky Waffle brigade where we all chop off our limbs and crawl around with our bloody stumps behind us and our nipples can't even drag on the floor because, well, they've been cut off, too.

[8D]



snappykappy -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 10:33:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Of course, what the fuck do I know. I've been doing it wrong for the last 30 years myself. Welcome to the Wacky Waffle brigade where we all chop off our limbs and crawl around with our bloody stumps behind us and our nipples can't even drag on the floor because, well, they've been cut off, too.

[8D]


bita u got me rolling on this one



Awareness -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 11:09:07 PM)

  Christ, ritual blood-letting.  What next?  Cannibalism?  Is that a spiritual practice too?

I'm amused to the degree by which people have this urge to conflate sadomasochism with D/s.  The two have nothing whatsoever to do with each other, it's just that some people think that D/s implies you become a sensation freak with sadomasochism as a natural progression.

You wanna practice S&M, be my guest - but don't pretend you're doing anything that's in any way a D/s interaction.  Two freaks cutting each other ain't D/s, although you could call it the ritual of the Fried Green Tomatoes if you're so inclined - that still wouldn't mean the label you'd given it had any meaning whatsoever.

If you're so happy in your world, you wouldn't care about the opinions of anyone else, so cry me a river if you're not getting the validation you seek from someone on an internet message-board.

Sometimes I have real trouble believing you people are adults.



littlewonder -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 11:21:06 PM)

quote:

why do you write those journals? he told you to, right?


Actually, no. I don't write journals. He doesn't require them. When I used to write them it was for my own use for letting off steam.

quote:

well why do you do what he tells you to? because it is the natural order of things and as a woman you must obey your man?


Actually that's exactly why I do it. It's  how I was raised and what I'm comfortable doing.

quote:

 no you do it because it makes you feel good to do it.


No always. I do it because the consequences are worse than not doing it or because he makes sense and it should be done anyway..

Not everyone does this because it's all about fucking. When he tells me to go and make him some toast and tea I don't get turned on. For you guys it may be all about getting all hot and bothered. For some of us though it's simply because of the reasons I stated above.



Kaliko -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 11:45:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

It's about interaction, it's about response, on some level, it's always about fucking.



Oh, I wouldn't say that. It's sexual, yes. I don't deny that so much of what I do in my D/s relationship is rooted in how it makes me feel so good on a sexual level. But it doesn't involve actually having sex for me. I have been with my (ex, sort of) Dominant quite a few times (in real life), and yet, there has been no fucking for almost a year. Interaction and response, yes. Fucking? No.






HannahLynHeather -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/30/2011 11:54:01 PM)

you know little wonder, you i believe. the rest of them are still blathering on about it not turning them on, when that isn't what i actually said, but fuck it, they won't read any better than you did.

but you, yeah, it's not fucking for you. for you it is all wrapped and tangled in your religious beliefs, and well, you should probably know what i think about those, so its really not a compliment that i believe you.


to everybody else, fuck off, you are all pretending to yourselves and if you actually read what i wrote you'd see it wasn't what you responded to. i never said i got all sexed up by the d/s part, i in fact said i didn't. but you all glossed over that didn't you. well i'd stick around and discuss more, but i just got some fucking bad news tonight, so i really don't have the time or emotional energy to deal with your delusions.

go ahead and pretend whatever the fuck makes you feel good about yourselves, hell wrap yourselves as deep in fantasy as jeffy and his amazing invisible bint have, i don't give a flying fuck anymore, have fun not fucking, each and every one of you.



leadership527 -> RE: Real Life vs Online Slavery (7/31/2011 12:21:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
You know, Leadership.. I don't always agree with you but I gotta say that of all the 'doms' on these forums, I do believe you have been told more often than any other how you do all this shit wrong.

Well, it's a pretty good thing that you don't always agree with me. I've been fabulously wrong in the past and I fully expect that annoying trend to continue on into the future. Actually, the doing it wrong stuff is understandable. The abusive commentary is just plain hilarious given the actual reality of our marriage.

More importantly though, now that I'm a WWB member, do I get a lapel pin or something?



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