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RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 9:42:09 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
We love America the way a responsible parent loves their child.

We seek to correct her when wrong and support her when right,the same way a good parent guides their most precious blessing.




Just a benevolent big brother, huh, O59?

Fucking fascist pig.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 9:43:24 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Yeah, Ken, I bet the idea of the People telling the government how increases in the property taxes are going to work just burns you up.  Fucking ignorant proles.  These decisions should be made by their betters, and they should be happy to obey, and pay up, huh?  And just think, if nobody is willing to put their names on a petition, only the "right" ones will ever get on the ballot, at all!  Is that somewhere at the heart of your position?

You'd love to talk about a big, complicated thing like fighting wildland fires under extreme weather conditions instead, I'm sure.  You're sitting there, defending trying to frighten people away from participating in the process, and the only fire I'm going to talk about here is the one your feet are in.

Have a nice evening.

There's nothing big and complicated about 90+% of wildfires of Southern California They could be controled quickly and efficiently if the area had the same density of firefighters and equipment as the resyt of the nation. The reason the area doesn't is because property taxes in areas converted from farms to subdivisions are still paying property taxes like the area was rural because the counties are prevented from raising the millage rate by a dumbass ballot initiative from the 1970's.


Youre right, theres nothing big anc complicated about it..but it has nothing to do with density of firefighters and everything to do with building in dry forests with roads that have limited access. The Jarvis tax bill is the only thing that is keeping CA houses somewhat affordable. At 1% of 100% of assessed value CA property taxes arent that much lower than other large states to begin with. If there were no constraints they would be double that by now.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/6/2011 9:45:19 AM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 9:47:00 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		aww,stung a little I know,but only because it`s true.

Everyone plays their part,and the "America,love it or leave it" types have there parts too.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 9:49:54 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

First of all, you don't have that ability here. You don't get to control how people say things here, you should know that by now.


Of course I do. It's called the block button, Arpig. You should know that by now.

quote:

Second of all she was correcting an obvious mistake you made in defining a term, there was no point in quoting more of what you said as she was simply disputing that definition.


She dismissed a qualifier I used to point out the difference between what a republic allows and what representative democracy allows. The definitions we used as to what an actual representative democracy is were the same. So, no, she did not point out an 'obvious mistake' that I made as I wrote nothing but fact. Dispute, if you can, what I wrote.

You can't. Nor can she and she knows it.

If you want to discuss this further with me, Arpig, I'll do so on the other side not here. None of this is related at all to the actual topic.

OP, sorry for the brief highjack.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 8/6/2011 9:54:26 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 10:17:52 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Stung?  No.  It just left me a little nauseous, but that is a normal reaction, from seeing the true colors of your kind.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 10:44:17 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

It's called the block button, Arpig.
I'm of the opinion that only closed-minded people and intellectual cowards use that function. Neither of those is a category into which I had heretofore placed you, of all people. I have to say I'm really pretty disappointed to learn that I was apparently wrong.

quote:

She dismissed a qualifier I used to point out the difference between what a republic allows and what representative democracy allows.
I don't see the qualifier. There is no difference between a republic and a representative democracy. One last time: a republic IS a representative democracy, there can be no difference between them, as the one (republic) is a subset of the other (representative democracy).

quote:

The definitions we used as to what an actual representative democracy is were the same. So, no, she did not point out an 'obvious mistake' that I made as I wrote nothing but fact. Dispute, if you can, what I wrote.

You can't.
They very clearly were not. You used represntative democracy to describe a system different from the US system, which, as I have pointed out is patently wrong.
Here are your exact words:
quote:

Well, not quite. A representative democracy allows for a monarchy and our form of government does not but they do serve similiar functions in that they both allow the people to elect reps to speak on our behalf. Our one up is that we can recall any rep up to and including the president any time we choose if we can gather enough voters to do so. By contrast the Queen of England can dissolve parliament (at her peril of course) and the President does not have the power to dissolve a duly elected Congress.
The bolded bit is where you have gone wrong. You are using "representative democracy" in place of "constitutional monarchy" or "parliamentary democracy" (either term would have been appropriate.) in addition, you were responding to willbe's remark that
quote:

Maybe you missed it but another name for our form of government is representative democracy.
You began your remark by saying "Well, not quite", when in fact he is in fact exactly 100% correct with absolutely no qualifiers whatsoever. You presented the US republic as somehow different from a representative democracy. You were wrong to do so, as it is.

quote:

Nor can she and she knows it.
I doubt that, seeing as she did dispute, correctly, what you wrote, so she clearly can, and knows she can.

quote:

If you want to discuss this further with me, Arpig, I'll do so on the other side not here.
Nobody is discussing this with you Bita, we are informing you. You used the term incorrectly. You were corrected, you disputed the correction, you were corrected again, you disputed it again, and I am correcting you yet again...I'm pretty sure you will dispute this as well. You want to be right so very badly you are ignoring several things.
1. What the terms you used actually mean.
2. How you used those terms in what you actually said
3. What was actually said in reply to you.

quote:

None of this is related at all to the actual topic.
Yet you felt it was appropriate to make the point in the first place, you only seem to consider it off topic and unimportant when it has been pointed out that you were mistaken.

Now I am done correcting you, feel free to continue in your mistaken belief that you used the term correctly if it's so important to you, those of us who understand what it means know you did not.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 10:50:33 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I compared the way citizens relate to their government,quite clearly,and you read big brother and fascism?

Those things,those obsessions, are in your mind and heart.

This why folks think you`re an extremist.From what you say.

It`s your mind and extreme POV that`s in the gutter. It`s your paranoia that see`s evil,dark scenarios in our towns,states and nation.

And,............. it`s going to be you paranoids,who`re going to save us from "them"?!!

LOL....Who`s going to save us from you?



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/6/2011 10:53:53 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 10:59:51 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Actually, what I get a visual of is a little porker, dancing around, and talking fast.  "Comrade Napoleon is always right," right?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 11:07:30 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I`ll use picture so ya get it.



Then.



And.




Finally.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 11:10:14 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		what about the printing mistake that the wisconsin AFP made sending out absentee ballots with a return date two days later than the election???
a mistake? There needs to be more oversite covering who can and cannot send out and recieve absentee ballots.
Fuckers even  had a non existent address.
Caught,  they rely on the mistake.
and yes I know the reality of two districts being held on the 16 but the majority being held on the 9th
poor damnexcuse, kinda like the dog ate my homework



_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 11:16:48 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Yeah, Ken, I bet the idea of the People telling the government how increases in the property taxes are going to work just burns you up.  Fucking ignorant proles.  These decisions should be made by their betters, and they should be happy to obey, and pay up, huh?  And just think, if nobody is willing to put their names on a petition, only the "right" ones will ever get on the ballot, at all!  Is that somewhere at the heart of your position?

You'd love to talk about a big, complicated thing like fighting wildland fires under extreme weather conditions instead, I'm sure.  You're sitting there, defending trying to frighten people away from participating in the process, and the only fire I'm going to talk about here is the one your feet are in.

Have a nice evening.

There's nothing big and complicated about 90+% of wildfires of Southern California They could be controled quickly and efficiently if the area had the same density of firefighters and equipment as the resyt of the nation. The reason the area doesn't is because property taxes in areas converted from farms to subdivisions are still paying property taxes like the area was rural because the counties are prevented from raising the millage rate by a dumbass ballot initiative from the 1970's.


Youre right, theres nothing big anc complicated about it..but it has nothing to do with density of firefighters and everything to do with building in dry forests with roads that have limited access. The Jarvis tax bill is the only thing that is keeping CA houses somewhat affordable. At 1% of 100% of assessed value CA property taxes arent that much lower than other large states to begin with. If there were no constraints they would be double that by now.

And considering the difficulty of providing services in those ravines and deserts the property taxes should be higher than in places more suited for human use.

Thanks for proving my point.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 11:16:54 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Why do all the election "mistakes" seem to be on the republican side and always favor republicans.

The law of averages would say that at least some of the irregularities would favor the democrats.

But in republican controlled states,they all seem to favor or fall to the con`s side.



Now that seems kinda authoritarian....yes?


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 11:25:21 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Ever heard of a guy named Kennedy?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 11:30:27 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		This is your way of admitting to election fraud today.


Bring up one from over a half century ago, as if that`s a justification.



Thank you,that was easy and no,it`s not.



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/6/2011 11:31:18 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 12:09:59 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Bring up one from over a half century ago, as if that`s a justification.
What's you justification for that one?

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 12:12:49 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Yeah, Ken, I bet the idea of the People telling the government how increases in the property taxes are going to work just burns you up.  Fucking ignorant proles.  These decisions should be made by their betters, and they should be happy to obey, and pay up, huh?  And just think, if nobody is willing to put their names on a petition, only the "right" ones will ever get on the ballot, at all!  Is that somewhere at the heart of your position?

You'd love to talk about a big, complicated thing like fighting wildland fires under extreme weather conditions instead, I'm sure.  You're sitting there, defending trying to frighten people away from participating in the process, and the only fire I'm going to talk about here is the one your feet are in.

Have a nice evening.

There's nothing big and complicated about 90+% of wildfires of Southern California They could be controled quickly and efficiently if the area had the same density of firefighters and equipment as the resyt of the nation. The reason the area doesn't is because property taxes in areas converted from farms to subdivisions are still paying property taxes like the area was rural because the counties are prevented from raising the millage rate by a dumbass ballot initiative from the 1970's.


Youre right, theres nothing big anc complicated about it..but it has nothing to do with density of firefighters and everything to do with building in dry forests with roads that have limited access. The Jarvis tax bill is the only thing that is keeping CA houses somewhat affordable. At 1% of 100% of assessed value CA property taxes arent that much lower than other large states to begin with. If there were no constraints they would be double that by now.

And considering the difficulty of providing services in those ravines and deserts the property taxes should be higher than in places more suited for human use.

Thanks for proving my point.


Youre welcome, even though I didnt prove your point. Do you know how much of the firefighting in CA is paid for by property taxes vs other taxes and private money?

Here is one source who knows that you are totally wrong wrt San Diego county, a hotspot for brush fires last year. Note paragraph 3. Other counties are no different.

http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_rider/2011/01/02/more_firefighters_and_taxes_are_not_worth_it




< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/6/2011 12:19:28 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 1:53:06 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Bring up one from over a half century ago, as if that`s a justification.
What's you justification for that one?


Same justification he has to try to keep people from petitioning the government for redress of greivances.  The Democrat did it, so it's all good.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 2:01:56 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

It's called the block button, Arpig.
I'm of the opinion that only closed-minded people and intellectual cowards use that function. Neither of those is a category into which I had heretofore placed you, of all people. I have to say I'm really pretty disappointed to learn that I was apparently wrong.


If you want to see a closed mind, Arpig.. you need look no further than a mirror. The rest of your post, I've already addressed. I think you are wrong in all aspects of it, already gave my reasons for it so we're done here.

Bye.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 2:54:45 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Yeah, Ken, I bet the idea of the People telling the government how increases in the property taxes are going to work just burns you up.  Fucking ignorant proles.  These decisions should be made by their betters, and they should be happy to obey, and pay up, huh?  And just think, if nobody is willing to put their names on a petition, only the "right" ones will ever get on the ballot, at all!  Is that somewhere at the heart of your position?

You'd love to talk about a big, complicated thing like fighting wildland fires under extreme weather conditions instead, I'm sure.  You're sitting there, defending trying to frighten people away from participating in the process, and the only fire I'm going to talk about here is the one your feet are in.

Have a nice evening.

There's nothing big and complicated about 90+% of wildfires of Southern California They could be controled quickly and efficiently if the area had the same density of firefighters and equipment as the resyt of the nation. The reason the area doesn't is because property taxes in areas converted from farms to subdivisions are still paying property taxes like the area was rural because the counties are prevented from raising the millage rate by a dumbass ballot initiative from the 1970's.


Youre right, theres nothing big anc complicated about it..but it has nothing to do with density of firefighters and everything to do with building in dry forests with roads that have limited access. The Jarvis tax bill is the only thing that is keeping CA houses somewhat affordable. At 1% of 100% of assessed value CA property taxes arent that much lower than other large states to begin with. If there were no constraints they would be double that by now.

And considering the difficulty of providing services in those ravines and deserts the property taxes should be higher than in places more suited for human use.

Thanks for proving my point.


Youre welcome, even though I didnt prove your point. Do you know how much of the firefighting in CA is paid for by property taxes vs other taxes and private money?

Here is one source who knows that you are totally wrong wrt San Diego county, a hotspot for brush fires last year. Note paragraph 3. Other counties are no different.

http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_rider/2011/01/02/more_firefighters_and_taxes_are_not_worth_it




You're trying to use arguments about San Diego county to justify the situation in non urban counties? Do you even understand the idea of apples and oranges?

Instead let's try a community in Riverside
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/canyon-lake/article_d556c64e-b93e-5ebc-8f08-071ffa39a106.html

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Fearmongering and political petitions - 8/6/2011 3:05:51 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I hate to interrupt a conversation where you haven't stomped on your own dick yet, Ken, but would you care to apply your disregard for this activity to the recall efforts in Wisconsin?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 120
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