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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 2:44:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		what huge difference are you referring to?  if I have 40 dollars and you take 39 of them my bottom line is not gaudy.  but mathematically

(1000 + 40) - (8 + 31)  =  x is a pretty straightforward proposition.

Now, answer me this what if we were to introduce a negative square root of one in there?

it is a meaningless playing with numbers (a masturbation or playing in the shit in your diapers) in any way you do it.

So now if we take the averages of the actual picks of each number in order of the six numbers making the powerball winners

(hey and do it two ways---all winners or winners actually holding the winning ticket , what do we have?) 

THE power ball winners?

Nope, what we got is our dick in our hands, same-same here.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/9/2011 2:53:53 PM >

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 2:46:30 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

Yeah but you are missing another important point one you can learn from watching 'its a wonderful life' Back in the day before all this inflation hype occurred you never would have gotten 4% return on dick. Shit a mortgage interest rate was at like 2%, and that was considered robbery. Greedy people want to see lots of money. It just doesn't come out of thin air. You never would have your 20k$ just for sitting on your ass. Inflation, is just one crap way of playing the same crap game. You just have to watch the speed, hyperinflation is when you loose control of the ship.


of course if you go less than 4% you will start to lose your initial 1000 dollar investment to [[[[[[[[[[[  inflation!  ]]]]]]]]]]]]

See these variants only produce worse results than I have shown!

The ratio between the inflationary side and the noninflationary side would still remain constant.

well the gubafia designed this so we would all get sucked into it.  Making legal tender laws, commercialization of everything including you, your labor, and your kids labor (slavery) and the whole system is designed to suck you in and swallow you up and the biggest difficulty is that it is so incredibly simple and right in front of us and the very hardest things in life to see is whats in front of us.



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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 2:48:50 PM   
MileHighM


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Status: offline 		please reread my post and think about what I said for a moment......

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 2:55:54 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		well why not introduce y^3 then?  

I am a bit surprized no one has figured it out yet.

why is the inflation side such a money killer?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 2:56:53 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		it is not.

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 2:57:54 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

please reread my post and think about what I said for a moment......


well what point should I derive then?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MileHighM)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 2:59:00 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		when you hear the answer from me or someone else your face will be red 

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 3:00:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		no it wont.  you will be wrong. you have never been right to this point in anything, and you are not about to change.

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 3:06:41 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		it is a meaningless playing with numbers (a masturbation or playing in the shit in your diapers) in any way you do it.


how about your check minus all of it to pay me...... is that also masterbation in shit diapers LOL  Heres a couple asswipes!






the huge difference is what your 1000 dollars netted you after 100 years in the bank with 4% interests, 20% taxes, 3% infation.

the HUGE difference is that with 3% inflation you only made 100 bucks after 100 years.

Without inflation you made 23grand after 100 years.

They sold us snake oil!

Do you think inflation is a good thing then, is that it?  or something not worth concering ourselves with?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/9/2011 3:28:45 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 3:22:30 PM   
MileHighM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

please reread my post and think about what I said for a moment......


well what point should I derive then?




The point is if you didn't have inflation you wouldn't get 4%. At the end of the day you would still only have that $200. Before there was inflation, you might get a fraction of a point interest. That's it. The point of inflation is to ensure that you have a new source of tax revenue, ie cap gains. Whether or not there is inflation, you make dick. Your premise that without inflation you would make the 20K is false. You never would. The earning on money just wasn't there. Inflation of currency creates an artificial sense of security (pay raises, revenue growth) while permitting a new avenue of taxation.

Your 4% is based on postinflationary returns not pre.

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 3:39:36 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

please reread my post and think about what I said for a moment......


well what point should I derive then?




The point is if you didn't have inflation you wouldn't get 4%. At the end of the day you would still only have that $200. Before there was inflation, you might get a fraction of a point interest. That's it. The point of inflation is to ensure that you have a new source of tax revenue, ie cap gains. Whether or not there is inflation, you make dick. Your premise that without inflation you would make the 20K is false. You never would. The earning on money just wasn't there. Inflation of currency creates an artificial sense of security (pay raises, revenue growth) while permitting a new avenue of taxation.

Your 4% is based on postinflationary returns not pre.


Inflation can exist with anything but we just happen to be working with money here.

Interest and inflation are not connected. 

I can prove it.

If you borrow a cup of sugar from me and I say ok if you pay me back with a cup and 10% more more when your cane crop is ready to harvest where is the inflation in that?

What inflation is (generically), is if you have a group of people and they need 1000 dollars to trade among themselves so they circulate that much in their society.

Now for whatever reason or lack of tomorrow the person in charge puts another thousand into society what happens to the value of the money that was already in circulation when the second 1000 was released?

instant 50% inflation.

So I do not agree with your interest analogy.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MileHighM)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 4:05:53 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline 		Part of the reason I am willing to pay the high interest rate is because of inflation. Inflation, effectivly errode my debt over time. Therefore, interest and inflation are linked. Why do you think we have so much debt??? We think we can inflate our way out of it.

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 4:32:07 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

Part of the reason I am willing to pay the high interest rate is because of inflation. Inflation, effectivly errode my debt over time. Therefore, interest and inflation are linked. Why do you think we have so much debt??? We think we can inflate our way out of it.


without turning my mind to mush with RO's nonsense this late in the day, the return offered/demanded on a fixed income investment is:

(real return + inflation + inflation risk premium + default risk premium)

If comparing investments with different tax ramifications (eg triple tax free munis vs fully taxable Treasuries) then an additional factor for taxes would be added.

If RO is assuming that you can get the same returns in an environment of low inflation and low risk of future inflation as you can in an inflationary environment, and then compares the net value at the end net of 0 inflation and net of some inflation, he's just playing games. He's not that stupid, he just thinks we are.

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 4:37:52 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

Part of the reason I am willing to pay the high interest rate is because of inflation. Inflation, effectivly errode my debt over time. Therefore, interest and inflation are linked. Why do you think we have so much debt??? We think we can inflate our way out of it.


yes and

no it wont.  not for you!

that is the misnomer.

The only people that works for is the treasury and favored pals because they have the inside info on the moves, hell they handle it all, and deal in trillions.

Business people who are on the ball are fucked because if they raise their prices too soon they lose and too late they loose.

Work3rs are fucked because their wage increases might be a year late!

You loose because to take advantage of that cheaper money to pay your bills you would need a raise in perfect sync with them inflating the system and you dont and it wont ever happen.

You will get your raise for the last bout of inflation (meantime the next one and all the associated bank fraud that goes with it), is coming into play and you will always be behind the cheap money, like a carrot in front of the donkey, whereas banks and people on top are on it that second!  who is making the money?

Interest and inflation are not linked just because they float together in the same deal.  The closed loop monetary system is the ultimate blame, and yeh interest creates the debt but inflation is created when you have more money in the system than is needed for people to trade.

Franklin used script and proportioned it to the needs, no interest, and it worked well with no inflation.

Now you realize that paying high interest is a personal decision and thats up to you.

I cant imagine why you would however turn down a huge return on your dollar like that since ultimately you are paying a bunch of crooks to run this country in the ground and steal everything we have just like the "founders" said would happen if we didnt watch out shit.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MileHighM)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 4:43:30 PM   
MileHighM


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Status: offline 		I agree the system is fucked. But I just don't agree with your analysis of it.

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 4:54:32 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

Part of the reason I am willing to pay the high interest rate is because of inflation. Inflation, effectivly errode my debt over time. Therefore, interest and inflation are linked. Why do you think we have so much debt??? We think we can inflate our way out of it.

without turning my mind to mush with RO's nonsense this late in the day, the return offered/demanded on a fixed income investment is:


(real return + inflation + inflation risk premium + default risk premium)

calculating YTM does not distinguish between an inflation return and a noninflation return which is the point here.  To show how we are getting truly sandpaperfucked on this deal, bonds are the vehicle I will give you that.

If comparing investments with different tax ramifications (eg triple tax free munis vs fully taxable Treasuries) then an additional factor for taxes would be added.

No this is talking about a macro version not dissecting a little slice here and a little dice there for some advantage in this that or some other area.

Does that mean you feel inflation is not a huge factor and rip off?  Nothing to be concerned about?


If RO is assuming that you can get the same returns in an environment of low inflation and low risk of future inflation as you can in an inflationary environment, and then compares the net value at the end net of 0 inflation and net of some inflation, he's just playing games. He's not that stupid, he just thinks we are.


I can apply inflation to any model you want and come up with near the same results.

I am still waiting for someone to see why you make shit loads of money when being taxes but not in an inflation economy.  No one has picked up on it yet when it should be smacking them in the face.




This is a simple macro analysis or the very fundamental workings of inflation, not how we can slice a chunk here and there.

So how do those numbers come up with such a huge difference?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 5:20:11 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

I agree the system is fucked. But I just don't agree with your analysis of it.


yeh but you can pull it right off of wiki, they say the same thing and there are thousands of articles out there with this version of it.

Now I would agree that it is ignored and shoved under the table so people dont get pissed.

here is wiki:

quote:

However, the consensus view is that a long sustained period of inflation is caused by money supply growing faster than the rate of economic growth.[7][8]


That is sort of the example I gave or at least alluded to.

they like to catagorize it to muddy the waters.  Short inflation is more difficult for people to deal with than long inflation since it is always attached to boom busts.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MileHighM)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 6:08:52 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		If the money supply were shackled to the rate of growth, it would certainly keep inflation under control, but would probably result in deflation as not all of the money supply is in circulation at any given time.

One theory about the mortgage meltdown is that it was the result of the flood of cheap capital from China - which may be - but the current systemic problems with employment are largely the result of the Bush administration cutting off research spending ten years ago - the technologies that are maturing now are being leveraged by China and other countries, we're behind the curve.

And again, if employment continues to slide, all this debt abuse is going to make the mortgage meltdown look like a mild hiccup - you can't keep borrowing against a future you don't have.

< Message edited by xssve -- 8/9/2011 6:09:22 PM >

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/9/2011 10:22:51 PM   
Termyn8or


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For those who don't think inflation is a factor, remember that when it takes a wheelbarrell full of money to buy a loaf of bread. Remember where that little story came from and remember Dolf did not fucking cause it. Extreme foreign debt caused it.

And we have now ? How's about running the numbers for the GDP (which used to be GNP until they changed it) for that country, versus the population, back in say 1936 or so. Forget the real nubers and look at the ratio and tell me where we stand today. We are a couple of wrong moves away fom real martial law to prevent a revolution, and you can see it coming if you can see. I'm not saying it'll happen this year, but the trend is there. Well this finacial mess we have now - the trend was there decades ago and those in power were either blind to it or didn't fucking care.

That paves the way for a popularly supported radically militant government. It HAS happened before. Is that what you fucking want ? Once that shit happens we will find scapegoats all over the place, just like last time. Is that what you want ?

So remain ignorant in those ivory towers, until they come crashing down. It woudn't be the first time in history and I'll bet the galaxy that it won't be the last. Fascist regimes just love these conditions, they grow really well. Is that what you want ? We are already trying to take over the world and you fucking know it. What do you think people will do without the constraints of a national debt ? We will pay people in scrip to build bombs and drop them. We already fucking do that ! It'll just be a few easy steps until everybody knows it the world over.

And as you know, it has happened before. You think the Constitution is going to save us ? Go back to your own planet, there are so many shit stains on that rag that we can't even discern the first three words. And you know it. So sacred it was. Well a bit less than a century ago so was loyalty to the Kaiser. And it all turned into a bunch of bullshit. Can't happen here ?

Watch and see. You think not ? Our population here are many fold times more stupid than they were there, and they fell for it. They are still paying the price. I think with the crop of people we have here it will cost alot more, possibly the sovereignty of this nation, what's left of it.

Think about it, long and hard. A people so fucked over will do things that they normally wouldn't. I would. I am already to the point where I would kill anyone, any thousand or even any million if I thought it would help. I would even kill myself. Now just wait until you know what I know. Just wait until people who still have the capacity to love and/or hate get to know just how bad it is, people who may be driven by passion. Just fucking wait, and then watch the shit hit the fan. They will be willing to do things that will make the events of human history pale in compare. Some already do.

Happens every time, just look at history

T^T

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RE: Have no fear! US Economy: well on the way to recov... - 8/10/2011 9:03:19 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		ok this has been up here long enough and no one has demonstrated knowledge as to why inflation is so destructive even beyond taxation as I have shown in the spread sheet.





what every one fails to see is the difference in the way taxes work versus inflation.

Inflation works on the sum total of all assets ("soft" and some hard assets as well), both new money coming in and old money and assets that you already have, everything.

Taxes only operate against "profits", new money etc coming in and leaves your old money, the money, the assets you already have alone.


It appears that no one here is capable of doing their own taxes, and if that is the case there is no way in hell they can figure out how inflation works.

For those who do not understand how this works, when you file your taxes you only pay taxes on "new income", profits, etc.

Inflation on the other hand invisibly takes the value away from your all your soft assets, NOT just profits and new income.

People foolishly think that "prices are going up" and its a natural occurance and it is not.  It is the value of the dollar going down as a result of devaluing inflation, and then everyone is forced into raising prices to make up for the LOSS OF VALUE.

There are 2 sides to supply and demand equation and the money we only get one side, the devaluation side and never the re-valuation side.  In other words we continually inflate reducing the value of the dollar and NEVER DEFLATE TO REPLACE THE LOSS AND INCREASE the value of the dollar.

Its a constant loss of wealth.

Inflation slowly steals your labor and your assets by milking it from you and unseen to you.

When money is capped by a resource there is no excuses that a guv mafia can make to get around it.  When they went off the gold standard the caps were removed and they now have a blank check and what do we imagine they will do with a blank check?  The value of a dollar is maybe about a cent right now and about to get much lower.

They do not give a fuck about you or me all they care about is themselves.  They knew this when when they made this system and they play on the ignorance of the people and the proof is that no one here was able to point out how inflation works and why the big difference in your wealth without it.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 120
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