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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

Unfortunatly the citizens of London have been disarmed so they have no way to protect themselves or their businesses. It is rather sad actually.

Yeah, it would be nice if there could be a little more bloodshed.

You fail to take into account that both sides would be armed.

Another slight problem with Aylee's claim is that the citizens of London were never armed in the first place .......

I get the impression that there is considerable resentment among sectors of the population that the police are armed at all. AFAIK, UK police have been unarmed traditionally, though, to a certain extent, this has been changing slowly in recent years.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

*I know there is similar thread on this subject, BUT I didn't see any real questions being asked about WHY this is happening, what is causing the growing frustrations in the UK, and is this to be expected people who are already poor and disenfranchised have to face cuts in social programs?

The BBC has done a smashing job, giving a timeline of the rioting, as we are heading towards day 3 of the rioting.

London Riots Timeline

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ORIGINAL: Arpig
we have to find a way for everybody to live well. there is more than enough wealth available, it's just concentrated in too few hands.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

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so if there wont be any substantive changes then why burn down London?

Because those people are angry and frustrated, and feel disempowered. They feel they have no other outlet but to go on a rampage.

And that is why I think there will be more riots.

not if they are all in jail

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

Frustrated and angry that the free money is going to stop. Unfortunatly the citizens of London have been disarmed so they have no way to protect themselves or their businesses. It is rather sad actually.

As per usual, more ill-informed crap. Firstly it would seem many of those involved in last nights trouble were just young kids out to rob premises. Secondly Londoners dont feel the need to carry arms and havent done so for 200 years.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
*Hard to comment on this phone
Great post Tweaky!!
I understand their frustrations, but I don't agree with their methods.
I advocate Continuous On-going non violent protests, whenever possible.

Similar riots occurred in Greece last year - also triggered by the police shooting some one IIRC. It might be pertinent to note that both the UK and Greece going through periods of financial turbulence. Both countries have reacted by reducing Social Security and Govt spending due to 'budget considerations' (sounds familiar hey?) after decades of policies of wealth redistribution from the poor to the richer sections of society.

The speed with which the riots have spread across the UK suggests that are huge numbers of angry, disadvantaged, alienated youths who feel no loyalty to the system, who see no future for themselves as things currently stand. All of which illustrates the potential risks of removing or diminishing the safety net during periods of high unemployment. It really ought to alert us to the dangers of fiscal policies that squeeze the poor and favour the already wealthy.

People who have a stake in the system act accordingly. People who have nothing to lose act accordingly.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

Yes dear. Good for you, but I really don't have any interest in discussing this further with somebody with no understanding of the issues, and such simplistic and unrealistic solutions. Let them eat cake didn't work in 1790 and it won't work today.

There is increasing anger and frustration among the disenfranchised worldwide with a system that increasingly concentrates more and more wealth in fewer and fewer hands, and unless something is done to change that system, then I see only more frequent and increasingly violent outbursts of unrest, and a rise in the popularity of extremist political solutions. It bears keeping in mind that those disenfranchised make up an overwhelming and ever growing majority of the world's population.

If your only answer is to jail them all and ignore the rest of the world, then I'm afraid you have become a part of the problem. Burying your head in the sand is not going to change the facts, nor alter the outcome.

Good luck with that.

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ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

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ORIGINAL: tj444
not if they are all in jail

I have to agree with Arpig on that one. Over here in the news they also mentioned that the integration politics from other cultures hasn't been dealt with good enough and quite frankly, to jail all the trouble makers they more likely would at first have to build some new ones [8|]

Personally I was always missing more culture aspects during my life in the UK. Over here (Germany) we have plenty cheap offers for kids to attend sport classes and music instrument classes etc....from spring to autumn we have countless village and town festivals, where kids help their sports clubs to raise funds for their club and the ones who take part in orchestras perform during such festivals...when I was in Orchestras, the Instrument didn't cost me a penny, as it was lent from the music club...so it was up to my parents, at a later stage, to decide if I stick with them and buy me my own one or not...however, it gives over here simply young kids plenty opportunities to spend their time with useful activities...without that it costs their parents an arm and a leg.

Now...I can be wrong, and maybe there are such hidden treasures in the UK, too...however, I never heard of them as I also spoke with young parents who want to enable their kid playing an instrument or attending sports classes but fear the costs it involves to them...

So quite frankly, when the kids are bored, they are more likely to develop (or join others to do) stupid ideas...

A while ago I read in an article that in London 205 gangs would be known about to the police...so considering a gang commonly involves more than one person there is a heck of a lot of folks available who are happy to join such an opportunity...

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ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

ohhhh okay i see, so as long as we synchronize our watches and jot it all down in our planners, destroying other people's property is totally okay. 

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

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ORIGINAL: tj444
not if they are all in jail

I have to agree with Arpig on that one. Over here in the news they also mentioned that the integration politics from other cultures hasn't been dealt with good enough and quite frankly, to jail all the trouble makers they more likely would at first have to build some new ones [8|]

Personally I was always missing more culture aspects during my life in the UK. Over here (Germany) we have plenty cheap offers for kids to attend sport classes and music instrument classes etc....from spring to autumn we have countless village and town festivals, where kids help their sports clubs to raise funds for their club and the ones who take part in orchestras perform during such festivals...when I was in Orchestras, the Instrument didn't cost me a penny, as it was lent from the music club...so it was up to my parents, at a later stage, to decide if I stick with them and buy me my own one or not...however, it gives over here simply young kids plenty opportunities to spend their time with useful activities...without that it costs their parents an arm and a leg.

Now...I can be wrong, and maybe there are such hidden treasures in the UK, too...however, I never heard of them as I also spoke with young parents who want to enable their kid playing an instrument or attending sports classes but fear the costs it involves to them...

So quite frankly, when the kids are bored, they are more likely to develop (or join others to do) stupid ideas...

A while ago I read in an article that in London 205 gangs would be known about to the police...so considering a gang commonly involves more than one person there is a heck of a lot of folks available who are happy to join such an opportunity...

I'm sorry but its up to parents to teach their kids and find ways to keep their kids from being bored and burning down their town... it doesnt have to cost a lot, just needs parents that fucking get involved with their own fucking kids...
There are others in the world that actually do need help, not a bunch of bored kids with a dangerous mob mentality..

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

Unfortunatly the citizens of London have been disarmed so they have no way to protect themselves or their businesses. It is rather sad actually.

Yeah, it would be nice if there could be a little more bloodshed.

You fail to take into account that both sides would be armed.

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One of the more depressing things about these riots is the way that the only thing that the Police can think of to say to us non-looters and non-arsonists is: "Don't join in" and "Let us handle it". If the bad guys start to torch your house, let them get on with it. If they attack your next door neighbour, don't join in on his side. Run away. Let the barbarians occupy and trash whatever territory they pick on and steal or destroy whatever property they want to.

There was a fascinating impromptu TV interview with some young citizens of Clapham last night, not "experts", just regular citizens, one of whom stated the opposite policy. Law abiding persons should get out of their houses, he said, en masse, and be ready to defend them.

The trouble with "letting the Police do their job" is that in the precise spot in which you happen to live, or used to live, their job probably won't start, if it ever does start, for about a week. In the meantime, letting the Police do their job means letting the damn looters and arsonists do their job, without anyone laying a finger on them, laying a finger on them being illegal. This is a doomed policy. If most people are compelled by law to be only neutral bystanders in a war between themselves and barbarism, barbarism wins. The right to, at the very least, forceful self defence must now be insisted upon. The Police, as we advocates of the don't-disarm-the-victims-of-crime policy have been pointing out for decades, can't be everywhere. They cannot instantaneously attend every crime, and magically prevent it. Only the potential or actual victims of crime can sometimes immediately prevent or immediately punish crime, provided only that they not forbidden to.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

The Boston tea party was PLANNED. Any thing coming Ofc the cuff of the protests against the shooting of the guy by the police IS SPONTANEOUS and pure bs of violence and destruction. Actually I have talked to people in London who have talked to others. It's pure bs and people destroying their own fucking towns which THEY will need to pay to recoup. This was not planned. Idiots are probably using it as an excuse but there is NO excuse for the destruction and it's NOT planned.

Yeah let's destroy our neighborhoods and towns. THAT'LL teach'em.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

It' the whole free market dominated international economic system that is broken. that is why there is increasing unrest around the world. The poor people are getting poorer all over the world, and the rich are getting richer all over the world. Those who have nothing, are getting fed up with the situation.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

These riots are simple -- they are a bunch of thugs who took a serious situation and turned it into a reason for looting, violence and destruction of other people's property.  Anyone trying to make this anything else is simply making excuses.  There is no reason for the violence and destruction of people's properties, there is no reason for the looting, no reason to set houses and cars and such ablaze.  Those doing so are thugs who saw a fun time. 

Anyone supporting or making excuses for these people need to open their eyes instead of finding ways to make excuses.

angel