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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:16:36 PM   
Sanity


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Wasnt the UK a workers paradise

What socialist policies or programs are they lacking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I see this as a result of the failure of the capitalist system to effectively provide for the lowest strata of society. The failure to provide all members of society with the means to lead a decent life, is the weakness of the present system, and until it is addressed, these sorts of disturbances will only become more and more common. And more violent.


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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:18:58 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Wasnt the UK a workers paradise

What socialist policies or programs are they lacking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I see this as a result of the failure of the capitalist system to effectively provide for the lowest strata of society. The failure to provide all members of society with the means to lead a decent life, is the weakness of the present system, and until it is addressed, these sorts of disturbances will only become more and more common. And more violent.



Do you wonder if Qaddafi will recognize the rioters and looters in the UK as the legitimate government?


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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:19:28 PM   
Arpig


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Socialist policies slapped on top of the global corporate system are a stop gap at best. The underlying system is flawed.




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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:26:08 PM   
Sanity


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You see a very heavily socialist system as deeply flawed...

So the fix is what. Total anarchy? Pure forced communism? What is it that you have in mind.



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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:33:45 PM   
Sanity


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Should the UN try to kill the British leadership in support of the people?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Do you wonder if Qaddafi will recognize the rioters and looters in the UK as the legitimate government?



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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:44:26 PM   
Lucylastic


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And that was the end of the stupidity and ignorance hour here on P&R, now back to your regularly scheduled programs

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:47:02 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Should the UN try to kill the British leadership in support of the people?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Do you wonder if Qaddafi will recognize the rioters and looters in the UK as the legitimate government?




Maybe just some non-hostile drone bombing.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:49:00 PM   
Aneirin


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I don't know where you are in the strata of society, but from my level their is an air of anger, hopeless anger, an air which has been becoming tighter and tighter over the years and seems to be falling on the present government and undoubtedly their austerity and money grabbing policies have accelerated that feeling culminating in, perhaps what we are seeing on the tv these last few days.

There is a definite feeling of there's them, and then there's us, and this feeling permeates all levels of society, we are definately not an United Kingdom, perhaps in reality, never were.

Now many of those at my level of society are not benefit scounging scumbags, but work for a living, some even have struggling small businesses, people who just get on with life lawfully in the best way they can, but they are struggling, swimming against a tide of decreasing funds and with that increasing government inspired demands, the austerity measures and lack of service that appear to be hitting the lower stratas of society the worst. The small businesses, well as you know the banks are jacking them, and the politicians though they may mouth words, seem toothless in the face of the great god that is the banking system, but when what is described as life's little pleasures after a hard day's work, the pub is hit hard, then one tends to feel the action more, as the pub, is a British institution.

Now one of the biggest complaints I hear, and I do agree, is about that necessity to life, the use of the private motor vehicle, as believe it, what passes for public transport in this area, part city and part rural, is an expensive unreliable joke, in fact from my position as unemployed, employers are now asking does one have their own transport to get to work, as no one wants an employee who fails to start on time through public transport issues, and I do understand the employers completely in this respect, and don't blame them. I blame the forces that have taken the necessary use of the private motor vehicle into the realms of a luxury commodity as increasingly, employed persons are finding it very difficult to pay the increased sums demanded for their lawful pleasure of living in the UK, as to remember, everything we need to live by, is governed by the fuel cost to the customer and undoubtedly unchecked greed. But many of those whom I know may rant and grind their teeth, but they perhaps exist at a higher flash point than the young and that due to maturity. As to whether maturity means one with age gets wiser, or one with age becomes eroded at what they see and experience with age is a good question. But do the mature flash like the young, perhaps through hopelessness they have learned not to, for there is a hell of a lot of middle aged depressive issues around at the moment.

But, what is affecting the young, well undoubtedly their parents struggles do not go unnoticed, but they have their own problems to contend with, and one of the biggest with the kids of the aforementioned adults I know, is unemployment. Many have degrees and other qualifications up the yinyang, but can they find a job, well, a few are lucky if their parents are in a position to employ or influence employment. But even with the young employment is not an easier existence, for the employed young fall into the same crap the mature have to deal with and because of their youth and stated inexperience, they do not receive good wages thus making their living perhaps harder than that of the elders, for one has to take into account their transportational issues and housing problems, many young people cannot afford car insurance, and of course you know about the housing problem. Many whom I have known to be in employment, have opted for the social benefit existence, because in many cases one can be better off in receipt of benefits, but the benefits lifestyle is no life at all, it destroys the mind, erodes hope and belief paving the way for anarchistic and revolutionary beliefs to take root and ferment, the benefits lifestyle is a thought realignment exercise.

But of these riots, my understanding is the mob who we see smashing, burning and looting is a willing and ready tool, a tool to be used and perhaps discarded, but behind the tool is a tool user, for this does strike me as in many ways organised and not the result of interweb hue and cry, there is political agenda at work here, but what agenda and who is the question. What was that someone said about the fighting nation that is the British, the only time they can stand together as one is in violence.

One thing is apparent from the reports of the riots though, is what is being attacked by the rioters, the locations and the businesses, was this a central intelligence requirement, or was it the feeling in the minds of those at the forefront, if the latter, then this reveals more about the source of the action, a probable palpable class divide. Then there is the police, you know those who enforce government policy, and that, the latter is becoming more apparent as the years go by, for they no longer appear to be interested in protecting the public, all the public, not just those with influence, for as has been reported with these riots, the police have neglected their duty to protect. But why attack the police, well, could that be because the police as governmental policy enforcers are seen as the face of the government on the street ?

Or is it The UK is run like a British War ship of old, Marines protect the officers from the crew ?

Now the government, any government, for they are all the same no matter what party is in power, many whom I know feel disconnected from government to the point where government is seen as a parasite, bleeding the people dry, as one thing is often forgotten, the money they keep telling us about, is the people's money, not the governments, yet that money has been seen to be given to the wealthy whilst the poorer are told to pull in their belts. They say they listen, but in reality they have no idea, and that because what the government is, many of them, political affiliation irrelevant sat in the same classrooms in the same public schools in their youth, therefore they cannot understand what conditions face many stratas in this society, with them I perceive a Mary Antoinette syndrome, aka haven't got a fucking clue beyond what their inexperienced thinking gives them.

I feel what is increasingly at work in the problems of this time is that age old British chestnut ; class divide



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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:49:57 PM   
Sanity


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Technically we wouldnt be at war or anything, no harm no foul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Maybe just some non-hostile drone bombing.


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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:51:18 PM   
Lucylastic


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and it appears we have technical difficulty with dribbling bullshit... stay tuned

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:54:51 PM   
philosophy


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Seen all this before. Late 80's, the middle of Thatcherism.

In every generation there are a few yobs, but usually not that many. What has changed when a significent number of people who wouldn't usually riot, riot?

It happens when the subtext from government is that a sector of society is worth less than another. When it seems that government just isn't listening.

The message sent by a government that acquiesed in bailing out banks to the tune of billions, then triples tuition fees for students, is not one of a great society, or one where each voice carries as much weight as the next voice.

It says, you don't matter as much...because you're poor.

Happened in the 80's too. It's easy to go to the poor when you have to have austerity if you're a government, difficult to go to the rich. But keep taking away and there's a risk. In the US the same thing created the Tea Party, in the UK things are usualy dealt with a little more impulsively. Neither is really a good thing.

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:55:34 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I don't know where you are in the strata of society, but from my level their is an air of anger, hopeless anger, an air which has been becoming tighter and tighter over the years and seems to be falling on the present government and undoubtedly their austerity and money grabbing policies have accelerated that feeling culminating in, perhaps what we are seeing on the tv these last few days.



And it is this that causes people to /lootsteal plasma tvs? Would it help in the taxpayers bought every person on the dole a plasma tv?

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:56:44 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Technically we wouldnt be at war or anything, no harm no foul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Maybe just some non-hostile drone bombing.



What is one more front, after all?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 3:57:29 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee



And it is this that causes people to /lootsteal plasma tvs? Would it help in the taxpayers bought every person on the dole a plasma tv?


...no, but it would help if they would stop moaning about money spent to create jobs. Better a government funded job, where you get a living wage and pay tax and have a damn stake in society.....than to sit on the dole and know you dont count.

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 4:00:44 PM   
Aneirin


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It is an increasing belief in the UK that many of us don't count beyond our ability to pay taxes and keep the lower house running

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 4:20:48 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Should the UN try to kill the British leadership in support of the people?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Do you wonder if Qaddafi will recognize the rioters and looters in the UK as the legitimate government?




That was a BBC broadcast "Sanity and Aylee talk bollocks"

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 6:05:28 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Technically we wouldnt be at war or anything, no harm no foul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Maybe just some non-hostile drone bombing.

Well shit sanity there are rumors that the British posses WMD....perhaps we should invade,if only to secure these weapons....lest they fall into the wrong hands.
By the way.....when was the last time I told you that you are an asshole ?

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 6:11:14 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I see this as a result of the failure of the capitalist system to effectively provide for the lowest strata of society. The failure to provide all members of society with the means to lead a decent life, is the weakness of the present system, and until it is addressed, these sorts of disturbances will only become more and more common. And more violent.
That would be the historical pattern.

Some things never change.

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 6:11:45 PM   
Moonhead


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All you have to do to take possession of the WMDs is to refuse to accept the next payment for them.
We'd have been a lot better off buying nukes from France: they wouldn't have got us into Iraq and got half the public transport in London blown up...

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RE: Riots continue to spread in UK/ is this a means of ... - 8/9/2011 6:18:00 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Wasnt the UK a workers paradise

What socialist policies or programs are they lacking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I see this as a result of the failure of the capitalist system to effectively provide for the lowest strata of society. The failure to provide all members of society with the means to lead a decent life, is the weakness of the present system, and until it is addressed, these sorts of disturbances will only become more and more common. And more violent.

Birmingham is a steel/manufacturing town, pure working class - clearly, they listened to the neo-cons and following their "milk the middle class dry and let the devil take the hindmost" formula.

You know those guys are all "reformed" socialists, they want capitalism to collapse, there is no other explanation for their economically suicidal policies, I cannot understand how "real Americans" such as yourself can sit there and lap it up, you're a chump baby.

Like Murdoch is "a man of the people", lol - they're laughing at your ignorant ass, all the way to the bank.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 100
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