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RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 6:29:18 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Quickly skimming through this thread, I was struck by the level of fear underlying people's posts...

So my question is why do Americans feel so frightened?

My question would be, why do you interpret what you read as reflecting "fear"? Why not realistic precaution, born of common sense? It has been proven over and over again to be foolish to imagine that "it won't happen to me."

Semper Paratus - Official motto of the United States Coast Guard
"Be Prepared" - The Scout Motto

"Frightened" is what you feel, and all too often the last thing you'll ever feel, when you're unprepared.

K.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 101

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 6:37:41 AM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So my question is why do Americans feel so frightened?

Not that I could explain how or why, but there is some foundation for it, tweakabelle.

Sometimes I think that fear begets whatever there is fear of, for one thing, but things are just unstable here, reason for that being subject of another post.

I have walked through the 'bad' neighborhoods of Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, and elsewhere, unarmed at all times, and no trouble from any of it. (I just like to take very long walks, and don't worry where it leads).

On the other hand, a good friend of mine who also was never armed and never had the inherent fear of man that some have was driving home from work late at night and was shot in the face through his car window by some young hoodlum. Fortunately it was a very cheap 'Saturday night special' and that and the closed window meant that he wound up with only a few medium sized pock marks, the doctor needing only ten minutes to pick the specks of lead out.

It's just weird over here, but all the more reason that I'm not going to live in fear of it.

I've walked past the scene of that crime at least 10 times since. No different than walking where a tornado struck earlier.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/17/2011 7:09:33 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 102

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 6:41:58 AM

kdsub

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quote:

So my question is why do Americans feel so frightened?

We don't feel frightened...we just hold people accountable for their actions.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/17/2011 6:43:31 AM >

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Post #: 103

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 6:45:51 AM

Iamsemisweet

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In my case, it really isn't fright. I live in a unique situation, and I consider it being prepared.

_____________________________

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Post #: 104

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 6:48:53 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

In my case, it really isn't fright. I live in a unique situation, and I consider it being prepared.

I carry a condom, just in case.

Does that count?

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 105

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 6:54:39 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I carry a condom, just in case.

Does that count?

When the pussy is ready in seconds, a dick wrapper dispenser is only minutes away.

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Post #: 106

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 6:58:11 AM

LillyBoPeep

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here's a link -- http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html -- to a blog that was inspired by a similar conversation to this one, but in 2007 (the writer updated it again in 2009 with more statistics). granted, statistics can be read or interpreted to mean anything you want, but there you go. according to those, the UK has a VERY high crime rate.

i think the difference is that gun ownership became very tied to our national identity; people like to relate to the militias who fought during the revolutionary war, and other similar events. they relate to these people who exhibited their national pride by fighting to make this an independent country. the "right to bear arms" is as integral as apple pie and baseball to some people, and so it's justified by "i don't want someone coming into my house at night, so i NEED this gun!"
our media also does a wonderful job of sensationalizing violent crime and causing us to hyper-respond to anything similar that we hear about. kinda like hardcybermaster said -- 1 person was violently killed, but 300 million others were not. =p we focus on that 1 person and think "that could be me!!"

still, other people just like guns. my uncle just liked them. he would read little articles about the mechanics of them, something like how this gun's trigger works in a miniscule different way compared to this other gun, or whatever. he was also a brainy, science-minded guy, a pharmacist, and a Democrat. =p not all gun people are beer-can smashing rednecks as they're often portrayed by people who don't like this part of American culture. and being a beer-can smashing redneck really ISN'T that bad of a thing. i've known some pretty nice ones, who were more open-minded and interesting than some of the uptown, liberal leaning, "we're so much better and more open than you" types. =p

we had guns because we had a reason to; our home/property was threatened a lot because a business ran there, and the people thought they could steal checks, steal merchandise, steal tools (all of which did happen), and usually these people were armed and whacked out on meth. it was precaution, because we had an idea of who we were up against, and the threat of a gun was the only way to deal with them.
now, i don't feel a reason to have one, because my neighborhood is pretty safe; not a lot of violent crime here.

it isn't necessarily fear that motivates gun owners.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 8/17/2011 7:12:02 AM >

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Post #: 107

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 7:03:34 AM

Iamsemisweet

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I keep some of those in the house too. So i guess I am prepared for anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

In my case, it really isn't fright. I live in a unique situation, and I consider it being prepared.

I carry a condom, just in case.

Does that count?

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 108

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 7:35:34 AM

igor2003

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know about you but for me it is much easier and more accurate to aim a long barreled weapon from the waist than a hand gun of any kind…Just a slight tendency to shoot high…but who cares if you blow their head off instead of a center shot. It is no less maneuverable and a shotgun in close quarters is a lot more deadly and forgiving and less likely to penetrated walls...And... if they are too close you can club them with it.

BUT... the big advantage is it is nearly impossible for a small child to shoot themselves and less likely that they would be capable of shooting another small child with a long barreled weapon. That is not the case with a hand gun.

No brainer for home defense ...at least in my opinion.

Butch

As I said, in some instances a shotgun might be a better home defense weapon...in some instances. But you're saying you can maneuver a 48 inch shotgun in a 36 inch hallway with a 7 1/2 ft ceiling just as easily as I can maneuver an 11 inch long .357 in the same confines? That is simply laughable. You can also use the .357 as a club, much like a hammer, and again it is easier to swing in a confined space.

Personally, I don't have kids so keeping guns out of reach of them is no problem. And if you are concerned about wall penetration you can get birdshot for most revolvers as well. I've even had birdshot for as small as .22 caliber.

Again, I'm not saying a shotgun is a bad choice. It just isn't right for me or my own circumstances.

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Post #: 109

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 8:26:43 AM

housesub4you

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Well, I live in the last state to not allow concealed carry...So tell me, has the crime rate dropped in the rest of the country because they allow concealed carry? Not according to the FBI.

So other than feeling more powerful because you have a weapon concealed, where is the data showing it has reduced crime like they always say it will when they have passed the law allowing it.

I'm a hunter and have handguns in my home, loaded NO way I have children, can I get access to them if need be. Yup.

I just never felt the need to carry a gun outside as a form of protection, never been robbed, never had a crime committed against me. Lived 40 years in Chicago and not once was mugged, hassled by a street gang. And no I did not live on the Gold coast.

The law in my view has not done what they claimed it would, reduce crime, what is has done is increase the number of people shooting themselves,

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 110

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 9:24:30 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

So other than feeling more powerful because you have a weapon concealed...

What the fuck is this, a fucking psychoanalysts convention?

K.

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 111

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 12:15:35 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
i think the difference is that gun ownership became very tied to our national identity; people like to relate to the militias who fought during the revolutionary war, and other similar events. they relate to these people who exhibited their national pride by fighting to make this an independent country.

Would it be snide to suggest that the people who won't shut up about that are mostly so full of shit that they squelch when they walk, and that they'd no more use their constitutionally defended stash of guns to preserve their freedoms and defend their country than they're able to bounce to the moon on a pogo stick?

I don't see anything wrong with owning a gun, particularly in an armed society, but people who feel the need to constantly justify doing so with that sort of drivel are protesting far too much. And if they don't believe the crap they're spouting, they've a bloody nerve expecting any fucker else to...

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Post #: 112

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 12:29:32 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

here's a link -- http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html -- to a blog that was inspired by a similar conversation to this one, but in 2007 (the writer updated it again in 2009 with more statistics). granted, statistics can be read or interpreted to mean anything you want, but there you go. according to those, the UK has a VERY high crime rate.

Well, the problem is that the blogger is one of those gun obsessed assholes who fails to actually give a real statistic that you can check, think he has much of an agenda?

Let's take total crimes and compare the US with the UK (that would include non-violent crimes) oddly enough the US seems to be leading in almost all violent crimes, the UK has more nonviolent crimes like bribery or car theft and drug offenses...

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime

According to credible sources (an gun wielding idiot with an agenda and faked statistics is not very credible) the UK has a lot less violent crimes, a lot less murders and strangely enough a lot less murders with fire arms, could that have anything to do with the fact that people here don't carry?

I feel a lot more safe knowing that most people don't own and carry a weapon than worry about the idiot with road rage losing it, or the neighbour getting a bit paranoid and when I tend my garden thinks I'm a robber... People tend to lose their temper and make the wrong choices, without a gun the result might just be a lot lethal...

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Post #: 113

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 2:50:09 PM

hardcybermaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

So other than feeling more powerful because you have a weapon concealed...

What the fuck is this, a fucking psychoanalysts convention?

K.

helpful post k
Seems obvious to me that there must be a section of gun owners who feel big and tough because they are packing. Thet are probably idiots with issues but it doesn't alter the fact that feel empowered by carrying

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Post #: 114

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 3:04:02 PM

Moonhead

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That may be projection.

Of course, if it isn't, those are the last people you want packing, aren't they?

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 115

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 3:04:10 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I feel a lot more safe knowing that most people don't own and carry a weapon than worry about the idiot with road rage losing it, or the neighbour getting a bit paranoid and when I tend my garden thinks I'm a robber... People tend to lose their temper and make the wrong choices, without a gun the result might just be a lot lethal...

Whatever the value of this information might be to you:

I don't worry about safety or being threatened, etc., having no clue as to who is packing or not, other than that the majority of time probably not.

My apartment or house has been broken into and burgled on half those occasions, once when I was in the shower and I came out dripping wet and said "Hey!".

Still don't have a weapon here, likely never will. But we have very different and very individual ways of dealing with a variety of situations that don't exist elsewhere, (and it might be good to study rather than judge on that score, as I preach here) and I am in no hurry to pronounce judgement on others' measures for dealing with whatever they are presented with.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/17/2011 3:06:14 PM >

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Post #: 116

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 3:11:26 PM

hardcybermaster

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[/quote]
Whatever the value of this information might be to you:

My apartment or house has been broken into and burgled on half those occasions, once when I was in the shower and I came out dripping wet and said "Hey!".

broken into?
That's HOME INVASION!!!!
You have the right to kill them
You have a duty to kill them

In fact if you had killed them they would not be able to INVADE anyone elses home
Think about it Ed, you've let yourself down, your friends and neighbours down and you've let the land of the free down.
Shame on you

edit for bad quoting......so shoot me

[/quote]

< Message edited by hardcybermaster -- 8/17/2011 3:13:17 PM >

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Post #: 117

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 3:11:31 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

That definitely helps, rob. Even you, though, have to admit that most of your co-workers arent exactly "Quigley Down Under".

My FiL is the Marshal, and our dept is rather small, so we all go to the range. The county sheriff's deputies, that's another story, and Chicago PD? Forget about it, I'd rather have a civilian Hoosier back me up that a CPD Cop.

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Post #: 118

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 3:17:24 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Seems obvious to me that there must be a section of gun owners who feel big and tough because they are packing.

Seems obvious to me that what seems "obvious" to you exists only in your apparently puerile imagination.

K.

(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 119

RE: Who else carries? - 8/17/2011 3:17:58 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

So other than feeling more powerful because you have a weapon concealed...

What the fuck is this, a fucking psychoanalysts convention?

K.

helpful post k
Seems obvious to me that there must be a section of gun owners who feel big and tough because they are packing. Thet are probably idiots with issues but it doesn't alter the fact that feel empowered by carrying

But with no numbers to back that up, much less any creditable substantiation of any sort ...

I was just wondering here, ...

If the UN's P5-Plus-One folks (look it up) have anything at all to do with their arms exports having any destabilizing influence upon the world. (the US being only one of the "P5_Plus-One would indicate to sharper minds here that the US is not the sole purveyor of weapons and ammo to the world).

You know, just a little, maybe.

Oh my goodness, WHAT am I talking about here?

US domestic gun ownership is what screws up everything in the world, coz everybody here is all just about whoop-ass and nothing else.

Glad we got all that figured out.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/17/2011 3:38:06 PM >

(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 120

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