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Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 9:24:38 AM

Fightdirecto

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We in the BDSM community know about consensual spanking, but this is definitely not the same thing:

Raw Story

quote:

CNN’s Gary Tuchman reported 08-16-11 on a fundamentalist Christian couple who killed their 7-year-old adopted daughter while practicing a violent form of discipline.

They reportedly beat their nine children regularly because they thought God wanted them to. Both parents were jailed after pleading guilty to the crime and the surviving children are now in foster homes.

Watch video, courtesy of CNN:

What action, if any, should be taken on the author of the book To Train Up A Child the couple based their "discipline methods" on?

< Message edited by Fightdirecto -- 8/21/2011 9:27:13 AM >

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 9:42:28 AM

LadyAngelika

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None. As misguided an individual he is, he has the right to freedom of speech. The only way to counter this is with education and other publications that discredit this one.

What an absolutely horrible, horrible turn of events for that young 7-year old girl and her siblings. Hopefully her death will not be in vain.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 9:43:27 AM

farglebargle

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"G-d wants them to"... The exact same motivation behind Bachmann and Perry.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 9:45:54 AM

Moonhead

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+1
You set a precedent for fuckwits pawning their personal responsibility for their actions on some writer and you'll end with Stephen King getting the chair while some serial killer who really enjoyed Rose Madder whines to Oprah about how he wouldn't hate women if it wasn't for that that bloody writer from New England...

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 9:46:53 AM

DarkSteven

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I have not read To Train Up a Child. But I doubt very much that it states that children should be violently beaten regularly.

When Charles Manson claimed that the Beatles' Helter Skelter advocated murder, nobody held the Beatles responsible for Mansons' lunacy.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 9:54:21 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

+1
You set a precedent for fuckwits pawning their personal responsibility for their actions on some writer and you'll end with Stephen King getting the chair while some serial killer who really enjoyed Rose Madder whines to Oprah about how he wouldn't hate women if it wasn't for that that bloody writer from New England...

Though you responded to my post, I highly doubt your comments were directed at me. If they were, then my comment was not clear to you.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:01:17 AM

TheHeretic

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Well, that 'freedom of speech' thing will certainly need to go, now won't it? From now on, all books will have to be carefully screened before publication to make sure there isn't anything in there some vile piece of shit might find to agree with. Only the "correct" things should ever be allowed to be printed and published.

Besides, think of all the jobs that would be created by such a nifty new government agency!

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:03:27 AM

TreasureKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

What action, if any, should be taken on the author of the book To Train Up A Child the couple based their "discipline methods" on?

In my opinion, most likely none. I say "most likely" only because I haven't read the book and I've only seen one brief news report. That's hardly enough information to form a firm opinion.

That being said, I'm a pretty big advocate of people being responsible for their own actions and not the actions of other people.

It isn't that I feel that someone shouldn't be accountable for what they teach, but that they shouldn't be held responsible for the stupidity of others. While I haven't read the book in question, I did watch the short clip of the interview with the author. In it, he did state that his children never had marks on them after being punished. From that comment, I am going to assume that no where in his book did he advocate beating a child to death, or even half to death. While it was reported that his book did say that correction did require the administration of pain, I would think that any reasonable person would understand that the production of pain comes long before any visible damage.

Which brings me to the point that these people who murdered their daughter are obviously not reasonable. They are the guilty ones.

Holding one party responsible for the irresponsible actions of another is a slippery slope. For example, it has been widely reported that studies show a low calorie diet leads to a longer life. The following is just one of the news articles touting this information:

Restricting calories may increase life span

Now imagine some idiot reads this article and thinks if he withholds food from his elderly parents, they will live longer. The article doesn't specify exactly how many calories, so he ends up starving them to death.

Do you hold MSNBC responsible? They publicized the information.

How about the National Academy of Sciences. They reported the research.

What about the University of California? They facilitated the research.

And the National Institute on Aging? They hailed the research findings as "important".

It is very easy to start blaming everyone else in this hypothetical situation, but it really boils down to the idiot being an idiot.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:11:55 AM

Lockit

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I have a personal stake in this... and it comes in the form of a five year old grandson. Daddy now has visitation with his second family and siblings he has introduced to son in the last two years and new bride has three children ages one, three and five. So our little combined family... all straightened out... because daddy wants custody... have not so blissfully been blended.

So little guy comes home saying... daddy had me spank the kids with a switch. What did the kids do? They cried. What happened then? Daddy said good job and spanked them too.

The counselor reported it... the kid was consistent and the others cried out for help telling people they were being hit with switches. Social services/protective services in MO says.. spanking is okay but not with an object.. but daddy moved to Kansas... and there... you can hit them with an object... as long as it isn't deadly or leave terrible wounds... even on a one year old.

Daddy quotes his scripture.. for which I know a bit more of it and he says it is in the bible and he has a right. (He was Muslim last year with the other family and now new lady, new religion.) What he misses is the scripture close to it that says... parents don't anger your children unto wrath. Bad paraphrase.. but that about sums it up.

So basically, the states are protecting this fucker and there isn't a damn thing we can do but watch our boy be changed by the day and hope the counselor can help us one day.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:15:58 AM

FirmhandKY

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Sub-text to FD post:

Gee, look how evil Christianity is ... murdering innocent children!

This use to be called "blood libel" when done to the Jewish.

Firm

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:26:16 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Sub-text to FD post:

Gee, look how evil Christianity is ... murdering innocent children!

This use to be called "blood libel" when done to the Jewish.

Firm

If this was the only case, it would be blood libel. But many innocent children have been killed in the name of Christianity and other religions. This is but one example.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:28:45 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I have a personal stake in this... and it comes in the form of a five year old grandson. Daddy now has visitation with his second family and siblings he has introduced to son in the last two years and new bride has three children ages one, three and five. So our little combined family... all straightened out... because daddy wants custody... have not so blissfully been blended.

So little guy comes home saying... daddy had me spank the kids with a switch. What did the kids do? They cried. What happened then? Daddy said good job and spanked them too.

The counselor reported it... the kid was consistent and the others cried out for help telling people they were being hit with switches. Social services/protective services in MO says.. spanking is okay but not with an object.. but daddy moved to Kansas... and there... you can hit them with an object... as long as it isn't deadly or leave terrible wounds... even on a one year old.

Daddy quotes his scripture.. for which I know a bit more of it and he says it is in the bible and he has a right. (He was Muslim last year with the other family and now new lady, new religion.) What he misses is the scripture close to it that says... parents don't anger your children unto wrath. Bad paraphrase.. but that about sums it up.

So basically, the states are protecting this fucker and there isn't a damn thing we can do but watch our boy be changed by the day and hope the counselor can help us one day.

I'm sorry that you, your family and most especially your grandson have to go through this ordeal. How absolutely traumatizing. I don't know American laws, but I would assume that there could be a case for child abuse made for the father having the five year old hit the other children, no?

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:31:09 AM

Sanity

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Communist butchers have killed well over a hundred million people (entire families - including innocent women and children) in order to clear the way for a perfect atheistic society.

So how is Atheism any better than Christianity or Islam, or any other belief system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
If this was the only case, it would be blood libel. But many innocent children have been killed in the name of Christianity and other religions. This is but one example.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:31:29 AM

Lockit

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We tried that angle.. so far... both states closed the case. Mo, says it is Kansas that has to deal with it because it is happening in their state and Kansas says our accusations are unfounded and there isn't a problem with state law. Case closed.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:33:22 AM

flcouple2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I have not read To Train Up a Child. But I doubt very much that it states that children should be violently beaten regularly.

Those actions from many who read the book are taken from a section called "The Rod".

It might shock you the further you venture into fundie land, especially among the evangelicals and smaller sects, how many of them beat their children.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:34:14 AM

slaveluci

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The article contained this sentence: "They reportedly beat their nine children regularly because they thought God wanted them to."

If you take that sentence and do this to it: "They reportedly ______________________because they thought God wanted them to," and then fill in the blank yourself, you could sum up many of the religious people in the world. All depends on what you put in that blank whether others consider it "bad" or "good."

Doing ANYTHING because you THINK God wants you to can be a bad, bad thing. When it comes to violently beating small children, I'm personally quite sure that fits the "bad" definition. Don't blame "God" or whatever higher power or deity someone like this chooses to follow. Blame the idiots who beat the kids...........luci

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:36:00 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Communist butchers have killed well over a hundred million people (entire families - including innocent women and children) in order to clear the way for a perfect atheistic society.

So how is Atheism any better than Christianity or Islam, or any other belief system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
If this was the only case, it would be blood libel. But many innocent children have been killed in the name of Christianity and other religions. This is but one example.

You might want to brush up on your history before you go around spoutting unfounded comments like you just did.

Myth:
How Many Were Killed by Communists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?

Response:
None, probably.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:37:53 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

We tried that angle.. so far... both states closed the case. Mo, says it is Kansas that has to deal with it because it is happening in their state and Kansas says our accusations are unfounded and there isn't a problem with state law. Case closed.

Oh that's just awful. There are few things that get me terribly upset, but child abuse does. I really do hope there is a way to resolve this soon for all of your sakes.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:45:40 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Communist butchers have killed well over a hundred million people (entire families - including innocent women and children) in order to clear the way for a perfect atheistic society.

So how is Atheism any better than Christianity or Islam, or any other belief system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
If this was the only case, it would be blood libel. But many innocent children have been killed in the name of Christianity and other religions. This is but one example.

You might want to brush up on your history before you go around spoutting unfounded comments like you just did.

Myth:
How Many Were Killed by Communists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?

Response:
None, probably.

Another good example of determining what the definition of "is" is, I think.

Firm

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 10:47:54 AM

Sanity

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Read beyond what you read from one single atheist and dispel your delusions

The Wiki article on Marxism and religion for example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion

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