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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:18:59 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I know them all too well, Flco.  The preferred tenet was along the lines of, "wickedness and deceit live within the heart of the child, but the rod of correction shall drive them far from him." (I know that is an amalgamation, not a specific verse.  So did they.)  That branch of the family turns out pretty much ok.  Even the alcoholics are the functional sort, and nobody has ever been hauled in by Child Protective Services.


Then are you out to just argue with Ken?

My parents weren't overboard and we were never beaten.  The Mrs, well they were beaten pretty well.   After a few legal problems, terrible accidents, and stints in rehab most of the siblings are becoming OK.

You should know the kind of people who take this and run way overboard.  I would not say the 2 children which have died or the ones who have had to be taken to the hospital are "doing OK".

It is nice you see a functional alcoholic as doing OK.


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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:20:16 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Bullshit. Treasure is arguing violence against children isn't violence.


Not hardly.  Your inability to comprehend is showing. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is very simple, the Pearls book advocates striking small children with a length of PVC 10 times every time the child does anything the parents disaprove of.


And again... I call bull.  Please link the exact place where they advocate "striking small children with a length of PVC 10 times every time the child does anything the parents disaprove of."  Their website is available here.  They have an entire section devoted to child training.  I'm sure you can find something to make your head spin.

Once more, disagree with their methods if you want... I'm certainly not enamored with their beliefs... but do not lie or distort their position so you can argue against them.


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 8/21/2011 3:23:43 PM >

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:25:10 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

I can't imagine any situation in which it's ok to hit a child.


I can; when my daughter was 4 and decided it might be fun to stick her toys and fingers in an electrical outlet. Thankfully I caught her before anything happened and I smacked her fingers and then her ass and she was sent to her room. She never did it again after that.

I never did corporal punishment when she was a child except in such circumstances and now that she's an adult she says to me from time to time "mom you know I would have been a better daughter if you would have just spanked me when I was bad". According to her I was too lenient. I have a feeling when she has children she will probably spank them and if it helps that child to understand what they are doing is wrong then so be it.

As for what those parents did, they took it to the extreme. Anything to the extreme is never good.....period. This has nothing to do with religion or a book and all to do with parents who simply were stupid.



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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:27:16 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009
If you have never been involved or around the type of fundies who follow these ideas then you have no idea what your talking about.


In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


You know this from personal experience, eh?

Or are you just spouting rhetoric?


Look 4 posts up from yours.


Are you saying that your father grew up in the Bible belt?

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:28:32 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

As for what those parents did, they took it to the extreme. Anything to the extreme is never good.....period. This has nothing to do with religion or a book and all to do with parents who simply were stupid.


Exactly.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:30:09 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
But then we have idiots like you trying to defend that.


Nobody is trying to defend these sick excuses for parents, RML.  If you'll read the OP, you'll see the topic is whether the author of a book on corporal punishment should be held accountable.

Can reasonable people differ on the uses of spanking and physical chastisement in raising the young?  Even if the answer is, "yes," there is no sign of anyone being reasonable about it here.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:32:59 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

I can't imagine any situation in which it's ok to hit a child.


I can; when my daughter was 4 and decided it might be fun to stick her toys and fingers in an electrical outlet. Thankfully I caught her before anything happened and I smacked her fingers and then her ass and she was sent to her room. She never did it again after that.



Are you suggesting that the only way to prevent her from sticking her finger in an electrical outlet was to hit her?

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:34:03 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
Are you saying that your father grew up in the Bible belt?

He grew up in Europe. Your point?

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:34:53 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

3/4" PVC tubing
interesting. the quotes i read all said 1/4".


He did say 1/4" tubing; flexible, so it can be rolled up.

He also said that for a 7 year old boy hitting his sister he would get 15 licks.


I'm not sure why this conversation has digressed on the size of the tool used to beat a child or how many times the child is beaten.

Hitting a child with anything is not ok. Anyone who hits a child has failed the child.


I think it is relevant: some people were arguing that the person who wrote the book was sounding pretty reasonable.

I think if one is going to spank (and I am not going to argue the rightness or wrongness of that) that 15 times on a 7 yr old is excessive.
And I think 1/4" pvc can do a lot of damage (he is using it as an example in lui of a belt).

Furthermore, spanking very small children (babies) as explained in my following post is just wrong by any way of looking at it.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:41:09 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009
It is nice you see a functional alcoholic as doing OK.




There are lots of alcoholics/addicts on most branches of the family tree, Flco.  It's almost like we have a genetic predisposition to it, regardless of how we grew up.  Yeah.  I prefer the functional addicts to the walking disasters.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:44:52 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The rule of thumb meant that you couldnt beat your wife with a rod any thicker than your thumb, and that all wife beating be finished prior to 10:00 at night so that it didnt interfere with the neighbors sleep

A lot of things were different "back in the day" and for everyone on the planet, not just this group or that group

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My dad grew up in a time when it was considered abuse if the switch a child was hit with was bigger than the adults pinky.  Look at your pinky... that could be a very thick switch.  They leave welts, rip flesh and can cause infections.

I find it strange that a book would state that a child should be beat with a piece of pvc pipe because its what "god" wants.  PVC wasnt around then.

Sounds like a couple who got off on hurting others and used religion as the excuse to do so.




We are talking about a seven-year old girl who was beaten to death.

But then we have idiots like you trying to defend that.



No where did I mention a thumb.  And, yes, I am familiar with that as well.  Im talking about something different.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 8/21/2011 3:45:47 PM >

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:45:07 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Your point?


So you admit that you were just spouting rhetoric when you said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


I presume you just thought this was a cutesy saying.   I understand that pithy comments like these seem like good, clean fun... however, they often just demonstrate ignorance and hatred. 

In this case, it appears you like the saying because it conforms to your idea of people who hold religious beliefs.  It appears that you don't have any experience living in the Bible Belt, or being raised by anyone from the Bible Belt.  Why else would you say something like that?

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:48:21 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Your point?


So you admit that you were just spouting rhetoric when you said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


I presume you just thought this was a cutesy saying.   I understand that pithy comments like these seem like good, clean fun... however, they often just demonstrate ignorance and hatred. 

In this case, it appears you like the saying because it conforms to your idea of people who hold religious beliefs.  It appears that you don't have any experience living in the Bible Belt, or being raised by anyone from the Bible Belt.  Why else would you say something like that?


He was not in the Bible Belt persay, but he grew up in a similar environment. You know, the US isn't the only place where you can find Christian religious extremism.

Do I feel anger towards people who hit children, hell yeah!! There is no ignorance nor hatred, just anger and sadness for children abused in the name of God.

Edited to add: there is nothing cutsey about the saying nor is there anything cutsey about child abuse.

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 8/21/2011 3:50:28 PM >

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:50:59 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

There is no ignorance nor hatred, just anger and sadness for children abused in the name of God.


Shouldnt matter what the reason for the abuse, should it?  Your post indicates your anger and sadness are restricted just for those children who are abused by Christians.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:52:11 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

There is no ignorance nor hatred, just anger and sadness for children abused in the name of God.


Shouldnt matter what the reason for the abuse, should it?  Your post indicates your anger and sadness are restricted just for those children who are abused by Christians.


I said in the name of God. You do realise that other people in other religions have Gods as well? Stop trying to put words in my mouth: it makes you look petty.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:54:50 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

I can't imagine any situation in which it's ok to hit a child.


I can; when my daughter was 4 and decided it might be fun to stick her toys and fingers in an electrical outlet. Thankfully I caught her before anything happened and I smacked her fingers and then her ass and she was sent to her room. She never did it again after that.



Are you suggesting that the only way to prevent her from sticking her finger in an electrical outlet was to hit her?


She still remembers it to this day and never did it again.
My daughter was/is the type that if you just tell her no even if you tell her why she's still going to do it. Sending her to her room? Ppfftt...kids will gladly go to their room and spend their entire lives there. Take things away from her? Did that. Never even bothered her one tiny bit. Make her sit in a corner? Did that. She'd make friends with the shadows on the wall lol.
Smacking her fingers and spanking her seemed to do the job of what I was looking for.
Some kids may learn from taking things away or by you simply telling them no. Mine didn't.



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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:57:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

There is no ignorance nor hatred, just anger and sadness for children abused in the name of God.


Shouldnt matter what the reason for the abuse, should it?  Your post indicates your anger and sadness are restricted just for those children who are abused by Christians.


I said in the name of God. You do realise that other people in other religions have Gods as well? Stop trying to put words in my mouth: it makes you look petty.


I also realize that children are abused by people who do not believe in any god. 


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:58:08 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		And what of those who are abused in the name of nothing at all, LadyA?  This sort of thing is hardly restricted to those of religious faith.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:59:32 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

I can't imagine any situation in which it's ok to hit a child.


I can; when my daughter was 4 and decided it might be fun to stick her toys and fingers in an electrical outlet. Thankfully I caught her before anything happened and I smacked her fingers and then her ass and she was sent to her room. She never did it again after that.



Are you suggesting that the only way to prevent her from sticking her finger in an electrical outlet was to hit her?


She still remembers it to this day and never did it again.
My daughter was/is the type that if you just tell her no even if you tell her why she's still going to do it. Sending her to her room? Ppfftt...kids will gladly go to their room and spend their entire lives there. Take things away from her? Did that. Never even bothered her one tiny bit. Make her sit in a corner? Did that. She'd make friends with the shadows on the wall lol.
Smacking her fingers and spanking her seemed to do the job of what I was looking for.
Some kids may learn from taking things away or by you simply telling them no. Mine didn't.


I'm not a parenting expert, but I will tell you that many leading experts in child psychology argue that there is always an alternative to physical violence. Always.

I know I sound harsh, what's a little slap now and then when it really does the trick? I'm definitely not comparing that to the abuse in the OP. But in my opinion, from my perspective, it's all a form of abuse. If you were to slap an adult (at least I know for sure in the US or Canada), you would be charged with assault, and there's a reason for that. It's not OK to hit people.

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:03:12 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And what of those who are abused in the name of nothing at all, LadyA?  This sort of thing is hardly restricted to those of religious faith.


That doesnt fit in to that neat little box they want to build, Rich.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 100
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