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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:28:47 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

LOL why does that not surprise me? You imply this is kind of a he said, she said thing. I offered you a front row seat... but no... you don't want to get involved. I guess that says it all. All talk and walk buddy. You will argue the right to talk... but you have little substance here. I can't even count on a no name (ours) email in support of laws against hitting very young children with sticks? Now that would be free speech in action wouldn't it?




So now you are going to try and guilt-trip me into somehow participating in your drama?  Front row seat?  No.  Hell no.  How dare you?

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:29:11 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Sub-text to FD post:

Gee, look how evil Christianity is ... murdering innocent children!

This use to be called "blood libel" when done to the Jewish.

Firm



You think you can stop with the drama queen nonsense?

It's a serious situation with a little girl dead, but all you can see is someone offending your Christian beliefs.

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:34:46 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

LOL why does that not surprise me? You imply this is kind of a he said, she said thing. I offered you a front row seat... but no... you don't want to get involved. I guess that says it all. All talk and walk buddy. You will argue the right to talk... but you have little substance here. I can't even count on a no name (ours) email in support of laws against hitting very young children with sticks? Now that would be free speech in action wouldn't it?




So now you are going to try and guilt-trip me into somehow participating in your drama?  Front row seat?  No.  Hell no.  How dare you?


You called me out. You insinuated a few things and my response was... come see for yourself. How dare you.


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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:34:57 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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The rule of thumb meant that you couldnt beat your wife with a rod any thicker than your thumb, and that all wife beating be finished prior to 10:00 at night so that it didnt interfere with the neighbors sleep

A lot of things were different "back in the day" and for everyone on the planet, not just this group or that group

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My dad grew up in a time when it was considered abuse if the switch a child was hit with was bigger than the adults pinky.  Look at your pinky... that could be a very thick switch.  They leave welts, rip flesh and can cause infections.

I find it strange that a book would state that a child should be beat with a piece of pvc pipe because its what "god" wants.  PVC wasnt around then.

Sounds like a couple who got off on hurting others and used religion as the excuse to do so.



< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/21/2011 2:37:23 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:35:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		If you claim a belief in something but do not follow its teachings, are you a believer?

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:43:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009
If you have never been involved or around the type of fundies who follow these ideas then you have no idea what your talking about.


In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:46:55 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The rule of thumb meant that you couldnt beat your wife with a rod any thicker than your thumb, and that all wife beating be finished prior to 10:00 at night so that it didnt interfere with the neighbors sleep


Wow, your really excellent at spouting a bunch of stuff you read on the Web without verifying your sources, huh? That is a false etymology.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:47:33 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

3/4" PVC tubing
interesting. the quotes i read all said 1/4".


He did say 1/4" tubing; flexible, so it can be rolled up.

He also said that for a 7 year old boy hitting his sister he would get 15 licks.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:49:56 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I have not read To Train Up a Child.  But I doubt very much that it states that children should be violently beaten regularly.

Actually it does.
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls


Bull. 

From the article you link:

"Much of the Pearls' instruction is not about "switching," but simply about raising cheerful, creative children, who value adventure and accomplishment, and enjoy a close bond with both parents..."

And from their own website, linked in the article:

"We believe the rod should not be used as a vent for parents’ anger. There is no place for vindictiveness or aggression in training children. The rod should not be applied at the end of an intolerance curve. Where the supreme motivation is anything other than the child’s good, the rod should not be used."

and

"You are abusing the child when it starts doing harm to the child. Listen to your friends—especially to those friends that share your philosophy. Ask the opinion of people you respect. If they think you are abusive, get counsel in a hurry. Ask the opinion of your older children. If your child is broken in spirit, cowed and subdued, you have a problem. Children should be happy and cheerful, full of enthusiasm and creativity. If your children are fearful or anxious, you should get some counsel."

Sure, you can disagree with their methods entirely... no problem.  However, in my opinion, only a twisted mind could possibly read this and think that the Pearl's advocate "violently beaten regularly".  



Did we read the same thing?

Or are you just cherry-picking?

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:51:50 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

3/4" PVC tubing
interesting. the quotes i read all said 1/4".


He did say 1/4" tubing; flexible, so it can be rolled up.

He also said that for a 7 year old boy hitting his sister he would get 15 licks.


I'm not sure why this conversation has digressed on the size of the tool used to beat a child or how many times the child is beaten.

Hitting a child with anything is not ok. Anyone who hits a child has failed the child.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:53:05 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		FR
Apparent highlights of the book (from another Christian's standpoint)
http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2010/01/to-train-up-child.html 

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:54:13 PM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
Status: offline 		At the end of an intolerance curve. That's most schoolnights, most of wet winters, yup I would call that potentially regular. But hey what do I know, I'm just a Father to a more than averagely headstrong 7 yr old.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I have not read To Train Up a Child.  But I doubt very much that it states that children should be violently beaten regularly.

Actually it does.
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls


Bull. 

From the article you link:

"Much of the Pearls' instruction is not about "switching," but simply about raising cheerful, creative children, who value adventure and accomplishment, and enjoy a close bond with both parents..."

And from their own website, linked in the article:

"We believe the rod should not be used as a vent for parents’ anger. There is no place for vindictiveness or aggression in training children. The rod should not be applied at the end of an intolerance curve. Where the supreme motivation is anything other than the child’s good, the rod should not be used."

and

"You are abusing the child when it starts doing harm to the child. Listen to your friends—especially to those friends that share your philosophy. Ask the opinion of people you respect. If they think you are abusive, get counsel in a hurry. Ask the opinion of your older children. If your child is broken in spirit, cowed and subdued, you have a problem. Children should be happy and cheerful, full of enthusiasm and creativity. If your children are fearful or anxious, you should get some counsel."

Sure, you can disagree with their methods entirely... no problem.  However, in my opinion, only a twisted mind could possibly read this and think that the Pearl's advocate "violently beaten regularly".  



Did we read the same thing?

Or are you just cherry-picking?


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:54:29 PM   
CrazyCats


Posts: 116
Joined: 2/15/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


I really like that one.

While I am not personally opposed to using pain as a teacher, there is a limit, and a line where it moves from teaching to breaking. I was spanked as a child. My family still has the two inch thick oak paddle with bible book and number carved into it. (I am planning on asking for it eventually.)

Ok... perhaps using me as an example of what spanking a child leads to in adult life isn't exactly the best example possible. After all, look where I am having this conversation!

All in all, sometimes spanking is simply necessary. It wouldn't be my first choice of correction, but I would be that it would be my last.

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quote:

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 2:56:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

You called me out. You insinuated a few things and my response was... come see for yourself. How dare you.




I did no such thing, Lockit.  I'm on thread because the OP suggested free speech was an issue.  I have some opinions on the general thread subject as well.  I didn't address your personal account at all, and that, I'm coming strongly to believe, is the root of your problem with me.  You want your story to be the center of attention, I'm interested in the bigger discussion. 

I wish your grandbabies well, and hope their granny doesn't teach them to be drama-queens, too.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/21/2011 2:57:37 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:00:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyCats


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


I really like that one.

While I am not personally opposed to using pain as a teacher, there is a limit, and a line where it moves from teaching to breaking. I was spanked as a child. My family still has the two inch thick oak paddle with bible book and number carved into it. (I am planning on asking for it eventually.)

Ok... perhaps using me as an example of what spanking a child leads to in adult life isn't exactly the best example possible. After all, look where I am having this conversation!

All in all, sometimes spanking is simply necessary. It wouldn't be my first choice of correction, but I would be that it would be my last.


I was not spanked as a child. My father suffered harsh punishments in the name of God in his childhood, and together, my parents decided to focus on non-violent discipline. What they taught me was how to talk my issues through and to communicate my feelings. I'm far from being a perfect person (none of us are) but I will tell you that I turned out pretty good.

I can't imagine any situation in which it's ok to hit a child. I know not everyone agrees with me, but I'm a bit of hardliner on this. With all the options we have to communicate with children, there is no need to resort to violence.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:01:27 PM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
Status: offline 		The only teachers I had dishing out corporal punishment were men. In no way can I be described as subservient to males.
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyCats


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


I really like that one.

While I am not personally opposed to using pain as a teacher, there is a limit, and a line where it moves from teaching to breaking. I was spanked as a child. My family still has the two inch thick oak paddle with bible book and number carved into it. (I am planning on asking for it eventually.)

Ok... perhaps using me as an example of what spanking a child leads to in adult life isn't exactly the best example possible. After all, look where I am having this conversation!

All in all, sometimes spanking is simply necessary. It wouldn't be my first choice of correction, but I would be that it would be my last.


(in reply to CrazyCats)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:04:37 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The rule of thumb meant that you couldnt beat your wife with a rod any thicker than your thumb, and that all wife beating be finished prior to 10:00 at night so that it didnt interfere with the neighbors sleep

A lot of things were different "back in the day" and for everyone on the planet, not just this group or that group

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My dad grew up in a time when it was considered abuse if the switch a child was hit with was bigger than the adults pinky.  Look at your pinky... that could be a very thick switch.  They leave welts, rip flesh and can cause infections.

I find it strange that a book would state that a child should be beat with a piece of pvc pipe because its what "god" wants.  PVC wasnt around then.

Sounds like a couple who got off on hurting others and used religion as the excuse to do so.




We are talking about a seven-year old girl who was beaten to death.

But then we have idiots like you trying to defend that.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 8/21/2011 3:05:22 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:11:06 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Well Heretic, you calling me a drama queen because I said I had a stake in this and said why and then you put words in my mouth, started all this. If it takes being a so called drama queen in your eyes to say... free speech is important but so is the safety of youngsters, why argue history of religious misdeeds and get on with doing something to protect people... a drama queen I will be. I am sure I am in good company with those that screamed about domestic abuse, stoning and rape.

Hell...  in the bible days, people would force a rapist to marry the woman he raped.. if they weren't stoned for adultery.... get on with your bad self.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 8/21/2011 3:16:06 PM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:13:29 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009
If you have never been involved or around the type of fundies who follow these ideas then you have no idea what your talking about.


In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


You know this from personal experience, eh?

Or are you just spouting rhetoric?

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 3:18:57 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009
If you have never been involved or around the type of fundies who follow these ideas then you have no idea what your talking about.


In the Bible Belt, if they don't get you with the Bible, they get you with the Belt.


You know this from personal experience, eh?

Or are you just spouting rhetoric?


Look 4 posts up from yours.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 80
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