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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:04:36 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And what of those who are abused in the name of nothing at all, LadyA? This sort of thing is hardly restricted to those of religious faith.

It's hardly not restricted to religious faith, nor did I ever imply that.

If you read my posts on this thread, I actually have said that the is NO excuse for hitting a child, anyone for that matter. But look at the title of the thread: Spanked to death in the name of God? I was addressing that.

I find it sad that the last few posts addressed to me are people splitting hairs and insinuating that I've said certain things, wanting to start arguments. Such pent up anger, which actually is really the source of violence.

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 8/21/2011 4:07:15 PM >

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Post #: 101

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:08:15 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I can think of a few instances where it's ok and even legal to hit another person so yeah, it's ok

And I guess I better tell Master to never hit me again. lol

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Post #: 102

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:10:37 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I can think of a few instances where it's ok and even legal to hit another person so yeah, it's ok

And I guess I better tell Master to never hit me again. lol

Alright, you have a point. The exception is consensual kinky play.

When I think of hitting, even though I'm quite sadistic, I never think of it in terms of BDSM, because BDSM and violence exist in 2 different parts of my psyche.

_____________________________

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Post #: 103

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:11:54 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
But then we have idiots like you trying to defend that.

Nobody is trying to defend these sick excuses for parents, RML. If you'll read the OP, you'll see the topic is whether the author of a book on corporal punishment should be held accountable.

Can reasonable people differ on the uses of spanking and physical chastisement in raising the young? Even if the answer is, "yes," there is no sign of anyone being reasonable about it here.

Yes, he should be.

And there is precedent for that.

I'll post a link or two when I get back from dinner.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 104

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:12:42 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And what of those who are abused in the name of nothing at all, LadyA? This sort of thing is hardly restricted to those of religious faith.

It's hardly not restricted to religious faith, nor did I ever imply that.

If you read my posts on this thread, I actually have said that the is NO excuse for hitting a child, anyone for that matter. But look at the title of the thread: Spanked to death in the name of God? I was addressing that.

I find it humourous that the last few posts addressed to me are people splitting hairs and insinuating that I've said certain things, wanting to start arguments. Such pent up anger, which actually is really the source of violence.

lol.. whats humorous is the fact that you believe you have the ability to make me angry.

what is also humorous is the fact that you are now backpedaling and that we are supposed to read your mind.

something else that is humorous is that you are holding a rod in your photo, yet make the following statement...

quote:

If you were to slap an adult (at least I know for sure in the US or Canada), you would be charged with assault, and there's a reason for that. It's not OK to hit people.

This isnt a case about adults.

Obviously assault charges arent always filed. Sometimes it IS ok to hit people.

A smack on the ass is a hell of alot different than a beating with a pvc pipe.

And nonreligious people beat their children.

As far as the author of the book... nothing should be done... nothing can be done. If that were the case, and they could be charged, then every author of kink related books would be open to charges as well for someone who did as suggested and something went wrong.

Blame those who did the deed. Religion didnt make them do anything. A book didnt make them do anything. The state didnt make them do anything.

They beat that little girl all on their own and, in my opinion, they should fry for it.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 8/21/2011 4:13:25 PM >

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 105

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:16:57 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

He was not in the Bible Belt persay, but he grew up in a similar environment. You know, the US isn't the only place where you can find Christian religious extremism.

Do I feel anger towards people who hit children, hell yeah!! There is no ignorance nor hatred, just anger and sadness for children abused in the name of God.

Edited to add: there is nothing cutsey about the saying nor is there anything cutsey about child abuse.

So it's okay to be disparaging about an entire geographic area and the people who live within it because you think they behave a certain way... and, because you believe people who behave similarly live elsewhere, too? That makes it alright?

I've not seen a single person in this thread who does not agree that it is absolutely horrible what happened. I doubt very seriously that there is anyone here who isn't saddened and angered by children being abused... regardless of whether it was done "in the name of God" or not.

As someone who was raised in the Bible Belt by fundamentalist Christians (according to modern definitions), I find your comment ignorant and demeaning. While my father often reminded me that "Pat Boone still spanks his 16 year old daughter", I can tell you that I was never spanked or struck by him in any manner. Only once was I ever spanked by my mother, and it wasn't with a rod or belt. I can also tell you that one time I was only five and I really deserved it!

So either your comment was trying to be pithy and cute, or you truly believe that within the Bible Belt children are abused in the name of God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They beat that little girl all on their own and, in my opinion, they should fry for it.

Absolutely!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 106

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:17:10 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

something else that is humorous is that you are holding a rod in your photo, yet make the following statement...

I already addressed that here.

I've been pretty clear on my stance to date. I've been down this road with you before. You have this way of spinning everything in the direction that suits your reality. Frankly, I'm not nearly even close to being enough of a masochist to try an reason with you.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 107

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:19:10 PM

tazzygirl

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You are better off not trying... you made the statement... you wont admit you were wrong. Nothing else to be said. Religious bigotry isn't anything new on these boards.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 108

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:25:16 PM

LadyAngelika

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Joined: 7/4/2004
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I have to hand it to you tazzygirl. You ability to distort things is really unparalleled.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 109

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:26:14 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Bullshit. Treasure is arguing violence against children isn't violence.

Not hardly. Your inability to comprehend is showing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is very simple, the Pearls book advocates striking small children with a length of PVC 10 times every time the child does anything the parents disaprove of.

And again... I call bull. Please link the exact place where they advocate "striking small children with a length of PVC 10 times every time the child does anything the parents disaprove of." Their website is available here. They have an entire section devoted to child training. I'm sure you can find something to make your head spin.

Once more, disagree with their methods if you want... I'm certainly not enamored with their beliefs... but do not lie or distort their position so you can argue against them.

Did you read this?
http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2010/01/to-train-up-child.html

Notice what is on the very first page of the book?
"consistently rewarding every transgression with a switching"

Can you stop pretending like their website hasn't been sanitized since the children's deaths?

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 110

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:33:05 PM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

I really do not see how she has distorted anything. What these people did was wrong, as in shoot them in the head and don't bat an eye wrong. There are many more folks, Christian and atheist, who spank their children and the kids are just fine.

Every spanking I ever got was deserved, I did not get caught or I would have gotten many more. I was raised in the Bible belt, by Baptists who would have gone to the home of anyone practicing abuse such as this thread is about and had a very sweet and kind" Come to Jesus" talk with the parents. If that did not work, the offenders would, at the least, be banished from the church. More than likely there would be much more done than that in order to assure the safety of the children.

Things like spanking are not always black and white. Abuse is. If you can not see the difference, that falls on you, not anyone else who has responded on this thread.

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Post #: 111

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:34:17 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
If you read my posts on this thread, I actually have said that the is NO excuse for hitting a child, anyone for that matter.

And I'm going to disagree with you on that as well. A smack on the hand, a smack on the tush, a filip to the head, and yes, an old fashioned "trip to the woodshed" style ass-whipping with an implement, all have a rightful place in the parental tool bag. There are certainly responsible and mature decisions to be made about what and how, and when they are used. There are certainly lots of other good methods in the bag with those.

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Post #: 112

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:38:38 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

So it's okay to be disparaging about an entire geographic area and the people who live within it because you think they behave a certain way...

Oh, I don't have to think it. I'm not delusional. There is actually hard data.

And I wanted to add that I know not all religious parents use corporal punishment. I am glad to hear your parents didn't. My mom is a devout catholic, and never used corporal punishment. There is one exception, when I was 13 and she slapped me across the face. She said she cried all night after doing it and we had a long talk. To this day, she regrets it deeply.

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 113

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:41:20 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
If you read my posts on this thread, I actually have said that the is NO excuse for hitting a child, anyone for that matter.

And I'm going to disagree with you on that as well. A smack on the hand, a smack on the tush, a filip to the head, and yes, an old fashioned "trip to the woodshed" style ass-whipping with an implement, all have a rightful place in the parental tool bag. There are certainly responsible and mature decisions to be made about what and how, and when they are used. There are certainly lots of other good methods in the bag with those.

You can disagree with me all you want. I stand by my claims. Also, world leading child rights organizations seem to have the same idea.

quote:

UNESCO recommends that corporal punishment be prohibited in schools, homes and institutions as a form of discipline, and alleges that it is a violation of human rights as well as counterproductive, ineffective, dangerous and harmful to children.

Save the Children "opposes all forms of corporal punishment on children".

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 114

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:55:27 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

So it's okay to be disparaging about an entire geographic area and the people who live within it because you think they behave a certain way...

Oh, I don't have to think it. I'm not delusional. There is actually hard data.

And I wanted to add that I know not all religious parents use corporal punishment. I am glad to hear your parents didn't. My mom is a devout catholic, and never used corporal punishment. There is one exception, when I was 13 and she slapped me across the face. She said she cried all night after doing it and we had a long talk. To this day, she regrets it deeply.

Sorry, but your "hard data" doesn't really address what you've said. Just exactly what are you trying to assert and back-up with the link you provided? That it is okay to disparage an entire region and people?

As for my parents, they believed wholly in corporal punishment and that to "spare the rod, spoils the child". However, like every other Christian family that I grew up with and ever spent any time with (which is a lot), they believed the bible just meant that corporal punishment should only be used when needed.

Those who needed it and consistently didn't get it, turned out poorly indeed.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 115

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 4:58:10 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
Sorry, but your "hard data" doesn't really address what you've said. Just exactly what are you trying to assert and back-up with the link you provided? That it is okay to disparage an entire region and people?

Obviously the comment was offensive to you, and for that I apologize. It unfortunately however change the facts that corporal punishment is more prevelent in that region.

_____________________________

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Post #: 116

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 5:01:07 PM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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It's interesting that people justify violence against children by saying the children turn out OK in the end.

I endured a violent childhood by religion obsessed parents (only one of whom was violent). I'm agnostic, take drugs and am kinky and promiscuous - not exactly the result my Catholic parents desired. So I am far from persuaded by that argument.

It's odd that violence against children (who are defenceless against adults) is held to be OK by some, while violence by adults against adults (who can, in theory, defend themselves) is a crime.

My suspicion is that any violence against any child will mark that child permanently. Some of us who have been through violent upbringings acknowledge that. The kind of systematic violence against children advocated by this sect is abhorrent. I'm shocked that any human being finds reason to defend such abuse.

ETA: If that kind of violence against children happened here, the parents would be arrested and charged - as they ought to be.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/21/2011 5:04:25 PM >

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RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 5:07:46 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It's interesting that people justify violence against children by saying the children turn out OK in the end.

I endured a violent childhood by religion obsessed parents (only one of whom was violent). I'm agnostic, take drugs and am kinky and promiscuous - not exactly the result my Catholic parents desired. So I am far from persuaded by that argument.

It's odd that violence against children (who are defenceless against adults) is held to be OK by some, while violence by adults against adults (who can, in theory, defend themselves) is a crime.

My suspicion is that any violence against any child will mark that child permanently. Some of us who have been through violent upbringings acknowledge that. The kind of systematic violence against children advocated by this sect is abhorrent. I'm shocked that any human being finds reason to defend such abuse.

I couldn't agree with you more.

quote:

In at least 60 states, beating children with sticks, belts and other implements is still authorized in schools. There is clearly more work to be done in educating parents, teachers and other professionals in the alternatives for disciplining children. Eliminating Corporal Punishment is an important tool for all those who want to prevent the widespread practice of corporal punishment. Based on studies undertaken in different parts of the world, it clarifies the human rights imperative and logical dictates regarding the elimination of corporal punishment. The full text of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child is also included. The book details practical steps for more constructive and effective child discipline and ongoing support material for long-term change.

From Eliminating Corporal Punishment

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 118

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 5:10:03 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
You can disagree with me all you want. I stand by my claims.

Fair enough then. I'm standing by mine. Looks like we are stuck.

Yes, I'm sure a UN panel has a recommendation for what goes on in every private home on the planet.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 119

RE: Spanked to death in the name of God? - 8/21/2011 5:13:11 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Obviously the comment was offensive to you, and for that I apologize. It unfortunately however change the facts that corporal punishment is more prevelent in that region.

I'm afraid your data doesn't say that, either.

Nonetheless, just consider my comments to you as bringing to your attention that prejudice that you say you struggle with.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 120

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