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RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:05:37 PM

hausboy

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Hi Termy
I understand (I think) where you're coming from... and I share some of those beliefs that people who hurt innocent children do not deserve to live.

Here's what was so hard for me and my friends.
The guy we knew was caring, sweet, gentle, sensitive, intelligent and would never deliberately hurt anyone. That was when he was compliant with his medications, and for two years, that was the only side of him I'd ever seen--the real him, as far as I was concerned.

Off his meds, he deteriorated...and his illness took hold of him He became extremely paranoid--a few times he was very upset seeing my radio on my hip, and I had to explain to him "who I was talking to." I worked for the government, and that caused him a lot of distress--each week he became less and less able to communicate with us rationally. The man we knew disappeared before our eyes and evolved into someone angry, irrational and unpredictable. He is not a monster. He is a man suffering from an illness.

I feel tremendous empathy for the family/friends of his victims, and I believe that he should serve his time--he took 5 innocent lives. But I also feel for his mother, who not only feels guilt about the incident, but has to cope with seeing her son in jail for the rest of her (and his) life. Everyone in the equation is suffering. The last I heard, the court was trying to force him to take his meds while incarcerated. I don't know if they succeeded--I left the state a few years ago and lost touch with my friends.

Honestly--I do not know what is worse. The suffering he feels off the meds, tormented by the voices, or the suffering he will endure on the meds, when he realizes what he did. It's beyond my comprehension. And while I totally get what you're saying--I would not want to spend my life in jail, knowing I killed innocent people-- I would rather die, the bigger debate was over the ethics of executing someone who was mentally ill, who did not consciously know what he was doing at the time. That's probably a thread for the P&R forum.

His name is John Hyde, and he will be behind bars until the day he dies, and do I agree that he should never see freedom again. Still, I feel sadness for his suffering and his family.

< Message edited by hausboy -- 8/22/2011 5:07:23 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 81

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:14:02 PM

Arpig

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quote:

You're probably right, but then drug use of any sort destroys brain cells. You could probably make a case for drug use resulting in destruction/impairment of the serotonin receptors or whatever it is that triggers schizophrenia. I'm not going to do it, though, because I'm not an expert in neurochemistry. I just read a lot and psychology fascinates me.

That's a reasonable hypothesis. I think I'll amend my stand to say I think drug-induced schizophrenia is possible.

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RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:15:46 PM

Iamsemisweet

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Fair question as to my source. I am trying to go back through the many, many articles I read to find where the one that talks about the personalities being nonviolent.
In the meantime, I will say that it made perfect sense to me when I read it. After all, what good is an angry personality going to do for a 3 or 4 year old child who is being sexually abused? That is a game they can not win. It made sense to me that a new personality, for want of a better word, would tend to be more nurturing or protective. What good is anger going to do a little kid? It isn't like they can strike back against their abuser. If this is a coping mechanism, then the personality should be of a type that helps him cope. Nonetheless, my nephew is without a doubt angry.

As for the suggestion that my nephew be shot, well, I don't want to deal with that. I suspect that, should he ever be released, he probably will end up as some sort of "suicide by cop" victim. The fact is, the best chance he may have for some quality of life may well be in an institution. He isn't really very likable, of course, so it is hard to see how he could be happy outside of an environment where they understand and can deal with him. And of course, he hasn't done very well since my brother died. My brother promised him he would never abandon him, and now he is gone. Poor little kid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fragilepieces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

The one thing I have read about MPD in relation to abused children is that they are usually not violent.

I am not sure where you are reading this stuff---but think about it. A child is abused, he is TAUGHT violence---not to mention s/he probably has a lot of pent up anger and rage that must be released. How on earth does one think that these pent up emotions are released? In a happy go lucky positive healthy way?

As to asking if it exists, define it first. MPD or DID is an altered state of mind. OP do you believe in sub space? Do you think it's real? Because really all sub space is--is an altered state of mind. True MPD and sub space are not exactly the same thing and how one gets there is totally different but they are both an altered state of mind.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to fragilepieces)

Post #: 83

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:18:18 PM

Iamsemisweet

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Interesting point. Although what a consenting adult can deal with looks a lot different than what a little kid can deal with. The motivations for the "abuse" are a lot different too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

True MPD and sub space are not exactly the same thing and how one gets there is totally different
Welllllll.....they're not the same thing, but a lot of what we do to put a person into subspace does look an awful lot like abuse...just saying.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 84

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:23:11 PM

hausboy

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semisweet

I'm so sorry....that boy is suffering, I hope he is able to find something that brings him some form of pleasure or joy in a place where he can't hurt himself or others. I understand that being in an institution is not fun, but the facilities now are considerably better than how they used to be. I hope he has patient caseworkers.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 85

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:26:24 PM

Arpig

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quote:

the real him, as far as I was concerned.

quote:

The guy we knew was caring, sweet, gentle, sensitive, intelligent and would never deliberately hurt anyone.

quote:

The man we knew disappeared before our eyes and evolved into someone angry, irrational and unpredictable.

They both were the real him. That's why so many people call schizophrenia a split-personality (the word actually means "splitting of the mind", because it appears to others as if one has become an entirely different person. Their not, and the underlying ideas and paranoid delusions remain. They are lessened in intensity, but they remain. I retain my distrust of organized religion and Catholicism even when on my meds and perfectly lucid. I just don't trust the Vatican or its motives. When off the meds, this blossoms into a full blown paranoid delusion, but the basic distrust remains at all times.

Your friend was probably the type of person who enjoyed conspiracy theories about the government, when on his meds...which morphed into his distress that you worked for the government and the issues with your radio.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 8/22/2011 5:27:24 PM >

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Post #: 86

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:27:45 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
In the meantime, I will say that it made perfect sense to me when I read it. After all, what good is an angry personality going to do for a 3 or 4 year old child who is being sexually abused? That is a game they can not win. It made sense to me that a new personality, for want of a better word, would tend to be more nurturing or protective. What good is anger going to do a little kid? It isn't like they can strike back against their abuser. If this is a coping mechanism, then the personality should be of a type that helps him cope.

From what I know, most insiders in a system are non-violent or are more inclined toward self-harm than outwardly directed aggression. However, it's worth noting that systems often have "protectors" who can act aggressive if the system feels threatened.

Usually protectors aren't the first insiders to manifest and they don't necessarily deal with the abuser. In childhood, they may deal with other types of threats such as bullies at school. As the body grows and becomes more able to defend itself, the protector may be able to direct the anger and agression to defense against the abuse.

There may also be an insider specifically designated to cope with anger precisely because it would be detrimental to the system if that anger were ever displayed in front of the abuser.

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Post #: 87

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:33:26 PM

hausboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

They both were the real him. That's why so many people call schizophrenia a split-personality (the word actually means "splitting of the mind", because it appears to others as if one has become an entirely different person. Their not, and the underlying ideas and paranoid delusions remain. They are lessened in intensity, but they remain. I retain my distrust of organized religion and Catholicism even when on my meds and perfectly lucid. I just don't trust the Vatican or its motives. When off the meds, this blossoms into a full blown paranoid delusion, but the basic distrust remains at all times.

Your friend was probably the type of person who enjoyed conspiracy theories about the government, when on his meds...which morphed into his distress that you worked for the government and the issues with your radio.

Thank you. That's true. Here's the other hard part-- he was just convinced that everyone was out to get him--and he believed we were all conspiring to hurt him and put him away.

I know he was very paranoid...but in truth, he was right, at least about some things. They were coming to get him and lock him up in an institution. I remember they used this in court, saying that the murders were pre-meditated. He knew what he was doing...at least that side of him did.

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 88

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:36:41 PM

Arpig

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I did a little poking around, and it seems there is at least a statistical connection between childhood abuse and schizophrenia.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/158/11/1878
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.0001-690X.2003.00217.x/abstract;jsessionid=4E684F271ED0A53132DB7404495D86E0.d03t01

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Post #: 89

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:38:10 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
I retain my distrust of organized religion and Catholicism even when on my meds and perfectly lucid.

Personally, I'm of the opinion this is the most rational view possible. Just sayin.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 90

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:40:01 PM

Arpig

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Care for some Seroquel?

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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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Post #: 91

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:41:52 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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Lolz. Doing ok with my Wellbutrin, but thanks.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 92

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 5:53:31 PM

DarkSteven

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When I was young, I read Sybil and When Rabbit Howls.

About five years ago, I met my first MPD/DID. She had been very much abused as a child. I have known maybe half a dozen total by now, including one very sweet woman who would like nothing more than to just be a child with a loving Daddy.

MPD is born out of acute trauma. If a child is so traumatized that he or she cannot cope with what is happening, a new personality is splintered off to deal with it and protect the child.

It is in fact real.

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RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 6:01:32 PM

hangemhigh1953

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Nowadays it's called Dissociative Identity Disorder, and yes, it is very real.

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RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 6:23:07 PM

hausboy

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Steven....
I'm going to share something here....something very personal..... hope I don't regret it.

I do not remember if it was before...or after the abuse....but I had an imaginary friend--He was my "hero friend", he was a rugged man with a moustache...and wore a workshirt and a yellow hard hat, and he was my "protector." I remember asking him his name--and he told me his name was "Hole." My parents tolerated me talking about my imaginary friend but I remember him being very real to me.

As I got older, he frequented my dreams....then disappeared as imaginary friends do when we age.

Fast forward to more than 20 years later, after I had my gender-transition. I was coming home from a shift at the fire station, and because my hands were full, I plopped my helmet on my head as I headed up the stairs. I walked past a mirror in the alcove, and stopped frozen in my tracks. There, in the mirror....it was him. It was Hole. The workshirt...the yellow helmet..the moustache...the EXACT face I had seen so many years before.

And that's when it hit me. As a child, I asked him his name, he wasn't saying his name was "Hole"....what he actually said was "I'm WHOLE." I don't know how to ever really explain this, but it was like I was my own protector, telling myself that I was finally "whole" as a person, as a man, and the splintered self that I felt as child would one day be whole again.

I know that all sounds weird, but it's entirely true.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 95

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 6:25:15 PM

fragilepieces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

After all, what good is an angry personality going to do for a 3 or 4 year old child who is being sexually abused? That is a game they can not win.

Okay so you are telling me that a three or four year old child is logically going to think in their minds, I am little so therefore I will not be angry about it because it won't do me any good. Do you even have children or have you been around them? Even a child at that age who has never been abused GETS ANGRY. Tell a three year old they can't have a cookie when they really want one---normally they aren't going to say, 'okay mommy you are bigger than me you win.' No they scream at the top of their lungs, "GIVE ME A COOKIE NOW." Why because they don't think logically.

You also sort of make is sound as if a person with MPD just sort of chooses their personalities. I'll take an angry one, maybe a sweet one, maybe I'll mix it up and have one of a different gender---they don't choose them. At times they are unaware they are even multiple.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 96

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 6:28:26 PM

Arpig

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I think she was trying to rationalize the subconscious' actions in creating the new personality. And I also think she did it rather well.

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Post #: 97

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 6:28:45 PM

fragilepieces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

True MPD and sub space are not exactly the same thing and how one gets there is totally different
Welllllll.....they're not the same thing, but a lot of what we do to put a person into subspace does look an awful lot like abuse...just saying.

They are the same because they are an altered state of mind. It has nothing to do with how one gets there. A person does not become multiple just in cases of abuse it can happen with any sort of PTSD---returning soliders can get MPD, people who witness some horrible act (murder, car accident) can also get MPD. It's an altered state of mind---and basically a way the mind is able to deal with the trauma.

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 98

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 6:30:15 PM

Iamsemisweet

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I am not going to get into a pissing match with you, particularly since this is a subject I feel somewhat emotional about. Thank you for your opinion, though, and I will continue to search for that article. As I said, when I thought about it, it made sense to me, although my nephew is undoubtedly angry, so who knows?

quote:

ORIGINAL: fragilepieces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

After all, what good is an angry personality going to do for a 3 or 4 year old child who is being sexually abused? That is a game they can not win.

Okay so you are telling me that a three or four year old child is logically going to think in their minds, I am little so therefore I will not be angry about it because it won't do me any good. Do you even have children or have you been around them? Even a child at that age who has never been abused GETS ANGRY. Tell a three year old they can't have a cookie when they really want one---normally they aren't going to say, 'okay mommy you are bigger than me you win.' No they scream at the top of their lungs, "GIVE ME A COOKIE NOW." Why because they don't think logically.

You also sort of make is sound as if a person with MPD just sort of chooses their personalities. I'll take an angry one, maybe a sweet one, maybe I'll mix it up and have one of a different gender---they don't choose them. At times they are unaware they are even multiple.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to fragilepieces)

Post #: 99

RE: Multiple Personality Disorder - 8/22/2011 6:30:36 PM

Arpig

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quote:

Doing ok with my Wellbutrin, but thanks

I liked Wellbutrin, it worked better than the other anti-depressants. Did you know it's the same thing as the quit smoking drug Zyban?

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 100

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