RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P and R?

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P and R?

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[Poll]

is it possible to have a rational discussion in P and R?

yes

38% (21)

no

40% (22)

what's the point?It means fuck all

21% (12)

Total Votes : 55

(last vote on : 9/3/2011 6:09:59 AM)
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RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/29/2011 8:04:47 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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You seem to have neglected a poll option for, "it's not the nasty arguing, so much as the hijacking into foolishness."

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(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 21

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/29/2011 8:39:21 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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Have you personally ever had your mindset changed by information gained here? I have...I may not of told the particular poster or posters that their viewpoint influenced me. However... just being forced to find information to back up my viewpoint has opened my eyes to the error of my ways on more than one occasion.

Being exposed to other points of view even if partisan may help you understand the oppositions position. Understanding why someone feels the way they do will open up avenues of compromise.

Our discussions here may make little to no difference on a big scale but you can change minds one at a time and these changes can add up to action.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/29/2011 8:40:36 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 22

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/29/2011 8:58:50 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

Possible yes, likely no.Too many political agendas and social monkey business as usual going on which includes smugness, snarky'ness and every other deflection/ attempt to top the conversation. It's okay though, cause I'm a tenacious bastard when I know I'm right.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 23

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/29/2011 11:24:59 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

There are only a very few people that are not rational. Unfortunately, they post a LOT.

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 24

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 2:59:06 AM

outhere69

Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
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Verrry rarely.

Firm? Lap dancing? Hmmm (looks up airfares).... Oh, hi Treasure!

You know, that could be an interesting idea. Lap dances for all, from the attendees.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 25

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 5:09:22 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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To ask if it is possible, is a little like asking if it is possible to go to the moon and back...yes, but few wish to try. Here in P & R, I often get the feeling that most don't attempt it.

For example: I run in to a young (early 20's) cashier at the local grocery store. I bring up prices and she said we can blame Obama. I ask how she could possibly say that when at the time he hadn't been in office but a little over a year.

She told me it was his policies that would have businesses raise prices. I asked how that was possible ? She said well it all started with FDR and his (so-called) 'welfare state.' That tells me she got her 'political knowledge' such as it was from somebody else being way too young to even know for sure when and how long he was pres. let alone much at all...of his policies and how those policies affected the country and especially in the narrow area of prices.

So you see, far too few people do come to P & R to have that rational discussion, while most come to make rhetorical points most of which are instilled by the presumptions and prejudices and most of those...like our young cashier, given to them by somebody else...a bit like religion.

(in reply to outhere69)

Post #: 26

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 5:23:32 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I voted yes.

I don't stop in down here too often. I don't enjoy discussing politics regularly and I consider My religion (even if it's not the term I would use) a largely private affair. When I do, I'd have to say that a good number of folks treat Me pretty well. There are exceptions, of course, but the few don't overshadow My opinion of the many. I've enjoyed a number of discussions here and happen to think highly of a number of the people who post in this forum.

Just My take on it.

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(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 27

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 6:23:41 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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~FR~

I judicious use of the hide feature could make this section better. Those that just troll, bait, etc. put on hide. There is a difference between having an opposing position and some of the insults and crap that gets posted.

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 28

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 8:23:43 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

Yes, there are rational debates, as any debate I participate in automatically becomes a rational discussion because my views, solutions, and answers are so rational that they outweigh a 100 irrational posts. I'm so rational, my poops come out in circles, and rectangles, as my body and mind do not know how to produce irrational patterns. Fortunately the poops are small, but once they are in the toilet they form much more impressive structures, which means I'm so rational, I can even transfer my rationality to pure shit, which is fortunate because many on this forum tend spew nothing but shit. But we shall overcome.

However, if you subtracted my rationality from the equation, then 90% of the discussions are irrational.

So, you are welcome.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 29

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 9:06:44 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Yes, there are rational debates, as any debate I participate in automatically becomes a rational discussion because my views, solutions, and answers are so rational that they outweigh a 100 irrational posts. I'm so rational, my poops come out in circles, and rectangles, as my body and mind do not know how to produce irrational patterns. Fortunately the poops are small, but once they are in the toilet they form much more impressive structures, which means I'm so rational, I can even transfer my rationality to pure shit, which is fortunate because many on this forum tend spew nothing but shit. But we shall overcome.

However, if you subtracted my rationality from the equation, then 90% of the discussions are irrational.

So, you are welcome.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 30

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 9:15:01 AM

Anaxagoras

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline

I voted yes as I think it is possible to have a fairly rational debate on here but too much of the time that doesn't happen. I think a certain number of people on the far-left and far-right spoil it. It only takes one or two people to disrupt or completely spoil a thread (e.g. the 40 page continual copy and paste shenanigans of a certain someone on the 9/11 conspiracy threads) so I think greater moderation would help. Perhaps a poll question could also be asked about how often is there rational discussion: (a) 0-10% (b) 10-30% etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Have you personally ever had your mindset changed by information gained here? I have...I may not of told the particular poster or posters that their viewpoint influenced me. However... just being forced to find information to back up my viewpoint has opened my eyes to the error of my ways on more than one occasion.

Being exposed to other points of view even if partisan may help you understand the oppositions position. Understanding why someone feels the way they do will open up avenues of compromise.

Good point. That in my opinion is the most worthy function of decent debate. Too many see it as just being about convincing others but the opposition of views can really help bring out greater truth in how we see things. Its often by facing challenges, especially to deeply held opinions that one can come to a better perspective. Thats how it was for me anyhow.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 31

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 9:57:46 AM

MileHighM

Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline

You want more than just P, Start some R discussions of your own. As far as the foreigners go, feel free to start more non-US based discussion threads if you feel left out.

If you don't like the partisan bickering, block the people who are names you won't name. There are people who try and have rational discussions on here, sometimes they fail, but you can see the effort that they are making and I appreciate it.

Don't whine about it, do something about. And, remember all of that whenever your own tempers fly, I think everyone is guilty on occasion of taking some default ideoligical position and throwing rationale out the window.

(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 32

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 10:04:46 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

I judicious use of the hide feature could make this section better. Those that just troll, bait, etc. put on hide. There is a difference between having an opposing position and some of the insults and crap that gets posted.

You know, I just don't understand the hide feature.

And I've said this before to other people, I think it's cowardly.

If you don't have the balls to take criticism then maybe you should stick to the milder forums.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 33

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 11:09:37 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

There is a difference between having an opposing position and some of the insults and crap that gets posted.

If you don't have the balls to take criticism then maybe you should stick to the milder forums.

Equating insults and crap with "criticism" does seem to explain a lot.

K.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 34

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 11:25:31 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

Obviously people have their own ideas and beliefs but no one seems to have any desire at all to listen to anyone else, it's just a massive slanging match. Most of you come across as pathetic points scorers. Is everyone so partisan that the others point of view is not worth even thinking about?

Hey, politics, those who discuss politics, what are they if not politicians, for everyone is a politician and would be more so if they had the wit to go for it and become a politician with power to trade.

But what you indicated and I quoted here is the perfect politician, don't listen to others for everyone else is wrong except oneself.

But where have all the foreigners gone, you know all those Brits and other non American representatives that used to participate here, they have gone, perhaps elsewhere, perhaps here was too much and to think this an international website that yaps about American political bollocks only, kind of leaves everyone else excluded, so why bother

But one thing is certain about you over the pond, the shit that is discussed on this forum indicates to us you are more fucked than us in this global community.

Aneirin, what does that "global community" stuff mean?
If my congressman or senators screwed up and it was on the News I really wouldn't care to discuss it with foreign nationals.
I don't comment on political issues in foreign countries firstly because I'm just not interested and also because I'm just not well informed enough about them and I just don't care.
I'd be talking out of context, and with little information and be slowing down the conversation like happens so many times in here with the foreign nationals constantly having to ask questions and not being able to see the big picture.
Add to that the socialist/leftist bent of so many of them and you end up with a tower of babel.
Perhaps C.M. should start another category, "foreign politics" or something like that?
But then of course there wouldn't be many Americans in there.
P.S. I don't know if this is an "international website", it's based out of California but on the internet you can get into most sites online no matter where you are.
If for example (you) started your own "C.M." type of site in England after a while you'd have the same complaints about the "misinformed Americans" I'm sure.
In politics if you're missing just 10% of the information that can have a very big effect on the conversation.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 8/30/2011 11:34:52 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 11:33:18 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

There is a difference between having an opposing position and some of the insults and crap that gets posted.

If you don't have the balls to take criticism then maybe you should stick to the milder forums.

Equating insults and crap with "criticism" does seem to explain a lot.

K.

Well fuck it then, call them insults.

Most of it is in good fun.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 8/30/2011 11:35:00 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 36

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 11:35:47 AM

paulmcuk

Posts: 80
Joined: 4/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But where have all the foreigners gone, you know all those Brits and other non American representatives that used to participate here, they have gone, perhaps elsewhere, perhaps here was too much and to think this an international website that yaps about American political bollocks only, kind of leaves everyone else excluded, so why bother

But one thing is certain about you over the pond, the shit that is discussed on this forum indicates to us you are more fucked than us in this global community.

Amen to that. I'm actually quite interested in US politics - as any sensible non-American should be, given that it impacts us - but the lack of any actual discussion here tells me to move on. I'd rather intervene in a gang fight than get involved with most of the threads here. If they in any way represent the genuine state of US politics, the USA might as well hand the baton over to China now and avoid the slow, lingering, death gargle.

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 37

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 11:39:21 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulmcuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But where have all the foreigners gone, you know all those Brits and other non American representatives that used to participate here, they have gone, perhaps elsewhere, perhaps here was too much and to think this an international website that yaps about American political bollocks only, kind of leaves everyone else excluded, so why bother

But one thing is certain about you over the pond, the shit that is discussed on this forum indicates to us you are more fucked than us in this global community.

Amen to that. I'm actually quite interested in US politics - as any sensible non-American should be, given that it impacts us - but the lack of any actual discussion here tells me to move on. I'd rather intervene in a gang fight than get involved with most of the threads here. If they in any way represent the genuine state of US politics, the USA might as well hand the baton over to China now and avoid the slow, lingering, death gargle.

Paul, we'll be taking care of that problem in Nov of 2012.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Post #: 38

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 12:56:26 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

sorry willb but you are one of the not named people...not a chance in hell? you are part of the problem, not the solution

awww my feelings are so hurt.

sorry, but nobody gives a fuck what you think.

People who want a rational discussion get one, those who want to lie, strawman, spin or snark get what they deserve.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/30/2011 12:58:08 PM >

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 39

RE: is it possible to have a rational discussion in P a... - 8/30/2011 1:15:50 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

Problem is that when people present facts, with links to verify the facts, they are still accused of strawman, lieing, etc and insulted.

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(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 40

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