RE: A very Awkward question...

RE: A very Awkward question... (Full Version)

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HeatherMcLeather -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 12:07:15 AM)
quote: I might have expected men to be less liberal when asked questions by other men, but the extent of the distortion is very significant. Exactly, the difference is so sharp. We too expected some skew, but that is so vast a difference it really surprised us too. The other thing that really stood out to us, was the large number of women who refused to answer when asked by a man. Maybe the almost automatic assumption of being a HNG isn't restricted to the Net.

crazyml -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 12:08:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strongbottom88 Ok. I misunderstood your previous quote to suggest that in your opinion there was some inherent association between a man being penetrated anally in some form by a woman and being gay. If all you are suggesting is that it is likely that broader cultural understanding outside of the bdsm community is that there is an association I would probably agree. And with Heather and Co.'s ever expanding research on the subject the evidence seems overwhelming. I hope they approved this study with their school's human subjects committee. Otherwise, the results may not be publishable. Yep, that's it pretty much. In terms of the results, and whether they're publishable - Sure, they'd not make it into any of the "journals" but sure they're publishable - They've just been published! I bet if the results were shared with any of the local LGBT groups they'd be able to get broader attention. But they would make an awesome contribution to a formal academic proposal....

crazyml -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 12:13:15 AM)
Ok... so where do you think the "truth" lies? To what extent do you think the guys offered a more liberal response to the female interviewers in order to appear "right on"? To what extent do you think the guys offered a less liberal response to the male interviewers in order to appear "straight"? My first instinct was to say that the male responses to females should be more reliable, but then I remembered my youthful tendency to lie like a rug about my feelings when talking to a hot chick....

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 12:21:23 AM)
I don't know, maybe we need to get some ugly girls to ask, sort of as a control group.[:D] I suspect there is a skew in each direction, so I am going to say it's probably roughly mid way between the two results for convenience's sake, which would put it around 75%.

crazyml -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 12:33:42 AM)
Yeah, I'm with you on that - on both counts.

tweakabelle -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 1:27:47 AM)
quote: I guess what I am asking, to be blunt, is "how do you handle being sexually used in that way, IF you are straight'? Why do we feel obliged to label pleasures as anything other than pleasures? There are situations where hetero-/homo-sexual are pretty irrelevant to what's happening. Consider this (not uncommon in certain circles) scenario: a biological male in lingerie is being fucked anally by a biological female wearing a strap on It's a male-female sexual encounter - so it's 'hetero' isn't it? Or is it? Who's being 'straight' here? But a 'male' is being anally penetrated by a penis-like object- so it must be 'gay'? Or must it? Who's the 'active' one? Who's the 'passive' one? Who's the woman? Who's the man? Does it matter? Think of a few variations on this theme if you like. It's gets even more fun or if you prefer murkier. Who amongst us has never had a 'gay' thought? Or a 'straight' thought? How can any one 'be" straight/gay/bi? Bonking is something we do, not something we are. If we choose to define ourselves according to labels, then neurosis is invariably the consequence. Labels are static and rigid, desire isn't. Their meanings can be contested and changed - ask any queer - but is it worth the fuss? What does a label actually define? Does it reveal some inner truth of ourselves? Or how we conform to some one else's notion of sexual behaviour/identity? Hetero- and homo- and bi-sexual are clinical classifications of behaviour that humans have invented to describe and classify sexual behaviour and then elevated into the status of 'identities'. Pretty recent inventions too ... both are less than 150 years old. The behaviours may be as old as the hills but the labels are a modern (clinical) invention. For some bizarre reason, these classifications tend to take on more importance for some people than the pleasures they might derive from whatever they might do. Why do some people seem to have crises when their desires exceeds the limits of a label? I appreciate that these can be traumatic for some people, but what's really at stake here? Pleasure? Or conformity to someone else's modelof sexuality that may or may not apply? People fuck people in a myriad of ways. Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble.

PeonForHer -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 1:38:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle People fuck people in a myriad of ways. Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble. I always did like you, Tweaks. You knew that, didn't you?

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 1:46:47 AM)
quote: Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble. Well except for those occasions when some man is coming on to me and I want to let him know that while it's nothing personal, I want nothing whatsoever to do with him and that there is nothing he could possibly do that would change my mind.

DeviantlyD -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 1:59:07 AM)
n/m :)

PeonForHer -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 2:19:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: I might have expected men to be less liberal when asked questions by other men, but the extent of the distortion is very significant. Exactly, the difference is so sharp. We too expected some skew, but that is so vast a difference it really surprised us too. The other thing that really stood out to us, was the large number of women who refused to answer when asked by a man. Maybe the almost automatic assumption of being a HNG isn't restricted to the Net. You might get a similar reaction from males if the questioner is himself a very large and heavy-looking bloke. Just a thought.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 2:37:48 AM)
quote: You might get a similar reaction from males if the questioner is himself a very large and heavy-looking bloke. Just a thought. Entirely possible, but I'm afraid we'll never know. We spent $80 paying 4 of the guys <mercenary bastards!> to ask the questions, so our polling budget is shot for the foreseeable future.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 3:56:09 AM)
Next step would be to get a little tent so they can answer anonymously and in confidence. If you happen to have a tent. :p

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 4:29:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble. Well except for those occasions when some man is coming on to me and I want to let him know that while it's nothing personal, I want nothing whatsoever to do with him and that there is nothing he could possibly do that would change my mind. But doesn't he then try the old "you just think you're only into women because you haven't been with me", usually accompanied by a leer?

strongbottom88 -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 6:07:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: I hope they approved this study with their school's human subjects committee. Otherwise, the results may not be publishable. No we didn't, we just grabbed a clip board and some graph paper and sallied forth. This isn't scientific at all, it is just to give us some data to work with. Today, we three asked women, and we got two guys at each school to help us out, one to ask women, and one to ask men. The results were eye opening. I don't think they actually reflect the subjects real feelings about the question, but they do reveal something about them all the same [:D] I was just teasing about the human subjects committee. I think it is great that you all went out and did this informal survey. I also think it would be great to see this type of question explored in a more scientific sociological study including more sceintific surveys (although random mailings would be difficult with this explicit of a topic) along with some more detailed interviews. I have a graduate degree in sociology, but it is not my profession and I would not have the time to contribute to anything like that. I am sure there are some radical sociology professors and phd students who would find this interesting though. I also agree it is probably difficult to get honest answers in this type of survey, particlularly from typical student-aged people.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 6:55:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Next step would be to get a little tent so they can answer anonymously and in confidence. If you happen to have a tent. :p Yeah. Big hairy dude asks another hairy dude, come on down and see my Coleman lamp![8D]

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 7:47:35 AM)
quote: But doesn't he then try the old "you just think you're only into women because you haven't been with me", usually accompanied by a leer? Sometimes, but not nearly as often in real life as it does on CM.

PeonForHer -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/14/2011 9:51:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble. Well except for those occasions when some man is coming on to me and I want to let him know that while it's nothing personal, I want nothing whatsoever to do with him and that there is nothing he could possibly do that would change my mind. And some labels are fun. For instance, if a woman calls me 'bitch' or 'slut', I'll look it up in the dictionary to make being called that even more horny for me. I might also thereafter look up 'weirdo', just to remind myself.

tweakabelle -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/18/2011 12:10:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble. Well except for those occasions when some man is coming on to me and I want to let him know that while it's nothing personal, I want nothing whatsoever to do with him and that there is nothing he could possibly do that would change my mind. And some labels are fun. For instance, if a woman calls me 'bitch' or 'slut', I'll look it up in the dictionary to make being called that even more horny for me. I might also thereafter look up 'weirdo', just to remind myself. LOL. I stand corrected, bitch. [:D]

tweakabelle -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/18/2011 12:18:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble. Well except for those occasions when some man is coming on to me and I want to let him know that while it's nothing personal, I want nothing whatsoever to do with him and that there is nothing he could possibly do that would change my mind. Yeppers. I can go along with that. Mind you, telling him you're a Catholic nun in civilian drag complete with vow of chastity, might work just as well, and avoid the sicko response of "you've just never been with the right man" too. Just a thought [:D]

DeviantlyD -> RE: A very Awkward question... (9/18/2011 12:50:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: Just have fun and f*** the labels. They're not worth the trouble. Well except for those occasions when some man is coming on to me and I want to let him know that while it's nothing personal, I want nothing whatsoever to do with him and that there is nothing he could possibly do that would change my mind. Yeppers. I can go along with that. Mind you, telling him you're a Catholic nun in civilian drag complete with vow of chastity, might work just as well, and avoid the sicko response of "you've just never been with the right man" too. Just a thought [:D] Perhaps the appropriate response in these situations might be along the lines of "I've never been with the right man? If that is something you believe then I would say to you that perhaps you haven't been with the right man either." grin

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