RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :)

RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (Full Version)

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barelynangel -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 7:41:30 PM)
I agree with the hide thread ability -- i think many people see a thread becoming a train wreck and being human you just can help but look to see what's been said or continues to be said. While yes you can ignore a thread, hiding a thread lol would make it easier when the devil is whispering just go look. I also agree that perhaps the search feature be fixed. I know this may sound silly but i think it would be interesting if people start a topics i would like to see thread that only the mods can see -- like a question so to speak, and every now and again a mod pose the question in a new thread so that it can be discussed unbiasedly towards the OP's story so to speak and doesn't become the personal concept towards the OP as many threads do that many times are a cause of derailment because of judgments etc As to the moderation on this site -- i think the current administration has created a major conflict of interest by socializing with posters on threads. To me, they are here to do a job and that is to be an unbiased and unconflicted moderator. When you start socializing with regulars and pal-ing around with them etc, you DO lose that ability to be unbiased and unconflicted. It's why as LaTigresse implied -- when you are in a position of authority, you don't get to be just one of the guys. It's a lonely place when you are in a position of authority. I have never liked the implication and a very real belief that has been created not only by posters but by a couple of the mods themselves, that certain posters know the mods on a personal - friendship level. I think its wrong. All in all, this job isn't easy -- but people who post here should be able to have faith that the mods are unbiased and unconflicted. It doesn't matter if its a free site or a hard volunteer job. Just because of that doesn't mean that the standard and expectation of a differentiation between posters and moderators should be lowered. They aren't here to socialize, they are here to be moderators. If they want to socialize they can jump into a profile just like the rest of us and keep the fact they are a moderator quiet. I think many of the posts in this thread are bordering on the site determining how and what people should be allowed to say. I am not sure about others but freedom of speech is one of the big things touted by alternative life styles because its a freedom of expression and then proceed to do so. How ironic would it be if a site of such a concept started infringing on people's freedom of expression? All in all, its the regulars who have made this discussion board what it has become. Only the regulars can look at it honestly and determine if they wish to change it -- i don't think there is anything other than cosmetic concepts can be done by the administration. For example, we recently had a very explosive thread about a topic that usually explodes into negativity, hurt feelings etc etc, and by the hard work of many regular posters, the thread was saved a couple times and turned into an informative and interesting conversation and discussion about the topic. I know its hard but i really think perhaps this could be done more often. angel

Rule -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 7:41:34 PM)
Arpig, she can't see!

Awareness -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 7:47:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel As to the moderation on this site -- i think the current administration has created a major conflict of interest by socializing with posters on threads. To me, they are here to do a job and that is to be an unbiased and unconflicted moderator. When you start socializing with regulars and pal-ing around with them etc, you DO lose that ability to be unbiased and unconflicted. It's why as LaTigresse implied -- when you are in a position of authority, you don't get to be just one of the guys. It's a lonely place when you are in a position of authority. I have never liked the implication and a very real belief that has been created not only by posters but by a couple of the mods themselves, that certain posters know the mods on a personal - friendship level. I think its wrong. All in all, this job isn't easy -- but people who post here should be able to have faith that the mods are unbiased and unconflicted. It doesn't matter if its a free site or a hard volunteer job. Just because of that doesn't mean that the standard and expectation of a differentiation between posters and moderators should be lowered. They aren't here to socialize, they are here to be moderators. If they want to socialize they can jump into a profile just like the rest of us and keep the fact they are a moderator quiet. I agree with this. In particular the pally relationship between the moderators and some of the regulars consistently undermines the ability of these boards to attract newer folk. You can see some of the regulars taking advantage of that, particularly when they're engaging in the usual sniping behaviour. For moderators to express opinions on some posters which fall in line with the sniping is completely out of bounds. quote: I think many of the posts in this thread are bordering on the site determining how and what people should be allowed to say. I am not sure about others but freedom of speech is one of the big things touted by alternative life styles because its a freedom of expression and then proceed to do so. How ironic would it be if a site of such a concept started infringing on people's freedom of expression? It already does. In particular someone who doesn't fall in with the regulars here and their various philosophies is subject to regular personal attacks with zero moderator intervention. On the contrary, if you take a chunk out of one of their sacred cows, you'll the one subject to censure.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 7:53:08 PM)
"Why hide behind a sockpuppet? You're not new, so why hide to say what you think? " (actually I agree with her. Why not just give opinions under one account?) " let you know when I start taking orders from the users instead of from VideoAdminAlpha." (written in response to his ordering her to change accounts.) Sorry Bob I don't see anything shocking or revealing about these posts you linked. I think you are reading things that aren't there. Oh and I wasn't pretending not to see it, my confusion is genuine. Act the asshole all you want it doesn't change that I didn't - and don't - see what you are. ETA: on the subject of revealing who sock puppets are, it's a bit odd complaining about that when you yourself revealed your numerous sock accounts.

Awareness -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 7:55:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig No, I do not believe they do, I do not believe there is any way for them to have that information, a position I have quite adequately demonstrated. Christ Arpig, you're a fucking babe in the woods. The simplest way for them to track multiple logins is using an Evercookie. Use the same browser installation twice, you're gone. Use multiple browser sessions with separate accounts, you're fine until the moment you make a slip and don't consistently login with the same username on the same browser.

Arpig -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 7:58:51 PM)
Well I taught networking, with a specialization in Internet security, so I am pretty confident of my assessment of things. I happen to know exactly how IP addresses work and exactly what they consist of, in their entirety. Now, I grant that my knowledge is not absolutely current, and there could indeed be some new protocol in use, my interest has been piqued, I'll review the RFCs and see. However, since you are implying that the site does indeed have a method of knowing who in fact posts under each name and if they are the same person or not, I assume that Moderator 21 will be dismissed immediately for breaching the confidentiality of that information. I look forward to your announcement of such steps and your reassurance that such a breach of member confidentiality will not occur again in the future. Anything less than that, and sorry, I call bullshit.either on your post, or your entire administration. Either way, if there is no admission of wrongdoing and an undertaking to insure it will not happen again, then I will consider the Mod 21 profile to be a troll and a sockpuppet and I will disregard whatever is posted under that profile, and I encourage everybody else to do the same. One of your staff made a grievous error in forum etiquette VAA, and I expect you to take action.

gungadin09 -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:02:19 PM)
Dude... calm down. pam

Awareness -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:07:21 PM)
Fuck no, let him go. I look forward to the climax of this little tantrum in which he stands proud and - splittle flying from his lips - demands that VAA and the administration apologise for not adhering to his standards of behaviour and that if they don't, he'll quit and tell all his friends to quit. I haven't seen a meltdown like this in ages.

Arpig -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:10:04 PM)
quote: The simplest way for them to track multiple logins is using an Evercookie. Use the same browser installation twice, you're gone. Use multiple browser sessions with separate accounts, you're fine until the moment you make a slip and don't consistently login with the same username on the same browser. Except that it can be removed & blocked. Nice try Mr. Babe-in-the-woods.

LadyPact -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:13:08 PM)
You know, a couple of days back, I got told I was outdated because of My propensity to rather do things in an old fashioned way rather than all of the new ways that are out there. For all this talk about IP addresses and all of that other stuff, nobody is even thinking about the easy answer. How do the rest of us find out about sock puppets? We don't have to go out searching for the information or even really do any digging. There are a good number of people who expose themselves because they signed on to the wrong account for what they wanted to say. You folks really don't remember the instance where a person wrote an OP, then came back in the middle of the thread under his other name, saying he was the writer of the OP? If I remember right, that particular thread turned into a flame-fest and eventually had to be pulled. When stuff like that happens, it's not just the members who see it. The Mods are the ones working on the threads when they have to be cleaned up and such. I'm pretty sure they notice it. I don't know what kind of access that Mods have. As a member, I can sit here right now and tell you that there is one chick out there who has over twenty profiles and just created her latest within the last few days. How do I know? Because she ain't as slick as she thought and she did the same thing that gives her away every other time. (Ask Me on the other side. I'll tell you.) Now, is that outing? No, it's not. I see it as calling somebody on their deceptive crap.

FirmhandKY -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:17:22 PM)
FR: Ok, I'll put in my opinion about the Mod21 postings. Yes, that Mod did cross over a fine line. VAA knows about it. Let her deal with it. Arpig, my friend, your point has been made. Please calm down. Firm

Awareness -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:17:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: The simplest way for them to track multiple logins is using an Evercookie. Use the same browser installation twice, you're gone. Use multiple browser sessions with separate accounts, you're fine until the moment you make a slip and don't consistently login with the same username on the same browser. Except that it can be removed & blocked. Nice try Mr. Babe-in-the-woods. You don't know what an Evercookie is, do you. Believe me, I can tell.

FirmhandKY -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:21:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness You don't know what an Evercookie is, do you. Believe me, I can tell. I do. And I can think of two separate ways to defeat it. Firm

Awareness -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:27:50 PM)
So can I. Private browsing and collapsible browsing in a vm session which vanishes after every invocation. Basically the same thing. However this gives up several conveniences and I hardly think Arpig the 'IP security expert' does either of these, particularly when he talks about IP addresses as the only trackable aspect of a browsing session. I think it even less likely the average non-obsessed individual does the same. Ergo, his thesis on how the moderators couldn't identify sock-puppets is pretty much shown to be a heap of naive bullshit.

xxblushesxx -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:31:44 PM)
Ok, I'll admit it...about two years ago I had a sock puppet called Greedy's Cat or somesuch. I did love that sock puppet!

NocturnalStalker -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:33:38 PM)
quote: You know, a couple of days back, I got told I was outdated because of My propensity to rather do things in an old fashioned way rather than all of the new ways that are out there. I couldn't imagine who would say such a thing. ... Oh.

Epytropos -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:50:12 PM)
Hell, Cookie Monster would suffice, no need to get fancy. The thing is that while an average user might not try these tricks, the kind of person who is going to the trouble of starting multiple accounts to agree with themselves will. This is not grad school level stuff, this is the kind of stuff 10 minutes on Google will teach you.

Rule -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 8:56:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact there is one chick out there who has over twenty profiles and just created her latest within the last few days. How do I know? Because she ain't as slick as she thought and she did the same thing that gives her away every other time. Ugh! That are a lot of sock-puppets. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact (Ask Me on the other side. I'll tell you.) Naw. I am curious, but naw...

Rule -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 9:00:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Arpig, my friend, your point has been made. Please calm down. I second Firm's motion.

Awareness -> RE: This is your chance, speak now or forever hold your peace! :) (9/10/2011 9:02:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Epytropos Hell, Cookie Monster would suffice, no need to get fancy. The thing is that while an average user might not try these tricks, the kind of person who is going to the trouble of starting multiple accounts to agree with themselves will. This is not grad school level stuff, this is the kind of stuff 10 minutes on Google will teach you. No. It won't. The EverCookie uses over a dozen different local storage methods to survive and recreates every time you hit the website. You've either got to zap every one of them (including in every browser you use) or the damn thing recreates. There are counters but most people don't even know the thing exists and people who engage in sock-puppetry are most likely - like Arpig - stuck thinking Tor is going to protect them.

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