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RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/11/2011 8:20:53 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


Errr... that's not just a US problem. That's a problem that will crop up anywhere you put a bunch of violent people together.
They will be violent.


You mean like the army?


There is violence within the army. It does not get as bad(as far as I know, I know many who have served, but I myself have not) due to the structure of its system.





While the army admits to at least 1000 fraggings in viet nam the evidence indicates that the number is closer to 10,000 out of the 58,000+ dead in that conflict....yes soldiers are a violent group...it is a prerequisite.

(in reply to tolovetolaugh)
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RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/11/2011 8:23:14 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I am a firm believer in eye for an eye.


Perhaps you might avail yourself of the source of that statement and disabuse yourself of your ignorance.


I am always reading up on things to try and better inform myself. Sometimes this changes my views, other times not so much.
Saying someone shouldn't be responsible for their actions because of their age is scary. Giving such younger people an excuse to purposely get away with... murder. Sets a bad standard I think.

You remind me of the reason why coffee cups have to say hot.



I did not say that they should not be responsble for their actions.
Have you checked on the meaning of "an eye for an eye"?
What law says that coffee cups must say hot?

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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/11/2011 8:32:09 PM   
tolovetolaugh


Posts: 648
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


While the army admits to at least 1000 fraggings in viet nam the evidence indicates that the number is closer to 10,000 out of the 58,000+ dead in that conflict....yes soldiers are a violent group...it is a prerequisite.


I had to look up fragging.

Honestly I don't see what that has to do with the topic. I agreed soldiers are violent- it's part of their job, hop back into the discussion with something relevant please.

Edited to add:
Or let it die- the rest of us seem to have finished our fun arguing it out.


< Message edited by tolovetolaugh -- 9/11/2011 8:37:12 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/11/2011 8:42:57 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


While the army admits to at least 1000 fraggings in viet nam the evidence indicates that the number is closer to 10,000 out of the 58,000+ dead in that conflict....yes soldiers are a violent group...it is a prerequisite.


I had to look up fragging.

Honestly I don't see what that has to do with the topic. I agreed soldiers are violent- it's part of their job, hop back into the discussion with something relevant please.

Edited to add:
Or let it die- the rest of us seem to have finished our fun arguing it out.



While you agreed that soldiers were violent you mentionened that

"There is violence within the army. It does not get as bad(as far as I know, I know many who have served, but I myself have not) due to the structure of its system"

You were unaware of how violent they are. My post was ment to indicate how violent they are.

(in reply to tolovetolaugh)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/11/2011 10:33:38 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		When someone is able to guarantee 100% that every person executed is guilty of the crimes they are executed for, there will be a case for the death penalty. To my mind, the irreversible horror of executing someone in the wrong demands this level of certainty.

As no one can provide this guarantee, and no one will ever be in a position to provide such a guarantee, why are people proposing an irreversible penalty when we know wrong convictions can and often do occur? The inevitable outcome is that innocent people will be killed.

Such absolute faith in the certainty of one's self-righteousness is dangerous, arrogant and in this particular matter, potentially murderous.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/11/2011 10:36:37 PM >

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RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/11/2011 11:03:05 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

why are people proposing an irreversible penalty when we know wrong convictions can and often do occur?

Excuse me, but locking a wrongly convicted man up in prison for 16, 23, 27, or 30 years is a not a fucking "reversible" error.

When you can give him those years back, then you can make a "reversibility" argument.

K.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/11/2011 11:13:48 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

why are people proposing an irreversible penalty when we know wrong convictions can and often do occur?

Excuse me, but locking a wrongly convicted man up in prison for 16, 23, 27, or 30 years is a not a fucking "reversible" error.

When you can give him those years back, then you can make a "reversibility" argument.

K.

You point is valid, but limited. Ultimately, there's no comparison between the consequences of locking people up mistakenly and executing them mistakenly.

It's correct to state that time lost in wrongful imprisonment is irreversible, but there are some limited ways of compensating for that. And when innocence is established, the person concerned can walk free from the prison and resume what's left of their lives.

I am yet to be advised of anyone wrongly executed walking free from their grave and resuming their life.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/11/2011 11:14:38 PM >

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RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 2:05:07 AM   
Endivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I just wanted to jump in real quick and enlighten a few of you lazy twits who like to jump to bold conclusions instead of taking ten minutes out of your life to shed some of your idiocy and find out the truth.

Based on the UCR, the BJS, and DPIC the following statistics have been gathered since 1976, and have maintained a linear pattern with a +/- of 3% of all reported crimes and executions based on those crimes in the united states.


Races of defendants executed in the U.S. since 1976:

Black 35%
White 56%
Latino 7%
Other 2%


While you are
"enlighten a few of you lazy twits who like to jump to bold conclusions instead of taking ten minutes out of your life to shed some of your idiocy and find out the truth."
You might heed your own advice.
There are about four times as many whites in the u.s. than blacks. Simple math would indicate that the black executions sould be about twenty five percent of the white level instead of about seventy five percent.





I have a better idea, why don't you take a step back from playing the fucking race card and look at all the information you were given. There is plenty of more information available to debunk your very narrow minded view, you are just too fucking lazy to look for it. Case in point, there is five times as many caucasians as there are blacks in the u.s., there is also 5 times as many capital crimes committed by whites, the difference of those crimes, less than 34% are murder. A staple requirement for the death penalty, as opposed to the Black capital crime rate of an overwhelming 62%. Now sit the fuck down.

Edited to add: Wikipedia is not how you find out factual information for making a supporting argument, lazy jackass.

< Message edited by Endivius -- 9/12/2011 2:10:00 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 2:06:51 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

You point is valid, but limited...

My point is valid, period. Otherwise, you wouldn't have stepped back from your "reversibility" argument so quickly. And I don't agree with your modified formulation either.

The notion that decades of wrongful imprisonment can somehow be rectified, undone, or compensated by setting the fellow free and giving him a few bucks is at best a sop to a guilty conscience, and at worst an excuse for not having one.

It is precisely this flawed notion of having a "way out" in one case but not the other that has led us to make it practially impossible to get a capital sentence, no matter how deserved, while accepting a loathsome zoo of deals, corruption, and general malfeasance in the handling of lesser offenses.

The predictable result of this state of affairs is that it has become all but routine to find, on the one hand, yet another innocent man languishing behind bars, and on the other, a piece of human waste with a rap sheet as long as my arm wandering the street to rape and kill again.

I do not share the opinion that decades of offense inflicted upon a man's mind, heart, and dignity are preferable to his death. And in the judgment of history, the most admired of men and the most admired of peoples have always been those who disagreed with that view.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/12/2011 2:40:35 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 2:09:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		My major issue is those who have been proven innocent by DNA.. and still sit in prison.

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Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 6:15:29 AM   
tolovetolaugh


Posts: 648
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


While the army admits to at least 1000 fraggings in viet nam the evidence indicates that the number is closer to 10,000 out of the 58,000+ dead in that conflict....yes soldiers are a violent group...it is a prerequisite.


I had to look up fragging.

Honestly I don't see what that has to do with the topic. I agreed soldiers are violent- it's part of their job, hop back into the discussion with something relevant please.

Edited to add:
Or let it die- the rest of us seem to have finished our fun arguing it out.



While you agreed that soldiers were violent you mentionened that

"There is violence within the army. It does not get as bad(as far as I know, I know many who have served, but I myself have not) due to the structure of its system"

You were unaware of how violent they are. My post was ment to indicate how violent they are.


...And your only proof of HOW violent they are comes from a war that happened before I was born? Get with the times.
I am sure if you looked at armies outside the US, especially those in third world countries you could find much better, much more violent examples. It would still not be relevant to the discussion at hand.
People are violent, that has already been stated as a point for prison violence and I don't understand why you are concentrating on measuring that violence for this discussion.
Unless you just ran out of actual meaningful points and just want to distract from that.


_____________________________


That which yields, is not always weak. —
Jacqueline Carey (Kushiel's Dart)

I wrote a porn!
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3840531

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RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 6:28:03 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

why are people proposing an irreversible penalty when we know wrong convictions can and often do occur?

Excuse me, but locking a wrongly convicted man up in prison for 16, 23, 27, or 30 years is a not a fucking "reversible" error.

When you can give him those years back, then you can make a "reversibility" argument.

K.


There have been many that were released and received large legal settlements.

You can't give those years back but they are still alive.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 7:11:49 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

I have a better idea, why don't you take a step back from playing the fucking race card and look at all the information you were given.


What race card did I play?
When you can refute the point I made then I will address the rest of your absurd post.

There is plenty of more information available to debunk your very narrow minded view,


When you can defend your first assanine opinion we may then proceed to the next one.


you are just too fucking lazy to look for it.

By the same token you seem to be too fuking lazy to defend your position with facts.



Case in point, there is five times as many caucasians as there are blacks in the u.s.,


If you were to avail yourself of a few key strokes to google you would know that this is false...you are off by about one order of magnitude.

Now sit the fuck down.

Why???are you planning on sucking my cock?

Edited to add: Wikipedia is not how you find out factual information for making a supporting argument, lazy jackass.


Where did I cite wiki in the post you referenced?
Anytime I do cite wiki, if you think you can debunk it please feel free to try.
Since you are the one who has not been able to refute my post that would seem to indicate that someone othe than myself is the lazy jackass.
It has been my experience on these boards that when someone stoops to name calling to make their point it is prima facia evidence that they are nothing more than a punk ass motherfucker.




< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/12/2011 7:19:32 AM >

(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 7:26:05 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

...And your only proof of HOW violent they are comes from a war that happened before I was born? Get with the times.

Is it your opinion that anything that happened before you were born is no longer relevant?


I am sure if you looked at armies outside the US, especially those in third world countries

You do not seem to know what a third world country is. Google can be your friend here.

you could find much better, much more violent examples. It would still not be relevant to the discussion at hand.
People are violent, that has already been stated as a point for prison violence and I don't understand why you are concentrating on measuring that violence for this discussion.

I do it for the sole purpose of disabusing you of your ignorance.


(in reply to tolovetolaugh)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 7:39:58 AM   
Endivius


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Joined: 8/22/2011
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quote:


What race card did I play?


quote:


There are about four times as many whites in the u.s. than blacks. Simple math would indicate that the black executions sould be about twenty five percent of the white level instead of about seventy five percent.



Don't go quoting my post wich was specifically to keep people from bringing up the race card, and then failing to look at the evidence and the entire post's context. Crawl back into that deep dark hole your ignorant ass came out of and leave the discussion to the grown ups. Ofcourse if you keep popping in here, I'm just going to keep shitting all over you.

quote:


By the same token you seem to be too fuking lazy to defend your position with facts.



You mean the last two posts wich were all freely available to anyone who wants to look at the references I left. But ofcourse, you just stopped reading at the first statistic that looked easy to support. Nice fucking math btw, too bad you didnt read the rest of it wich blows your godamn argument right out of the fucking water.

And yah, five times vs six times the total population has absolutely no fucking bearing on it. NONE. Look at the statistics of capital murder, Death by DP, capital conviction vs DP, and conviction vs aquittal for all races, then come back and you can say you fucking know something, 'till then keep your ignorant ass arguments to yourself. And yah, you are an ignorant fuck for quoting the only stat that remotely favors the argument.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 7:45:26 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

Don't go quoting my post


If you do not wish me to quote your post then stop posting. This is a discussion board not your lectern or pulpit.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/12/2011 7:51:44 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 7:49:27 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

You mean the last two posts wich were all freely available to anyone who wants to look at the references I left. But ofcourse, you just stopped reading at the first statistic that looked easy to support.


When you are able to refute my position we will then proceed to the rest of your assinine post point by point. But if you can't get out of the blocks how do you expect to get to the finish line?

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 7:54:47 AM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
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quote:


When you are able to refute my position we will then proceed to the rest of your assinine post point by point. But if you can't get out of the blocks how do you expect to get to the finish line?


Are you retarded? You haven't produced one single snipet to counter anything in the original wich you not only misquoted to misrepresent your pathetic attempt at an argument, but you then went on to try and support it by claiming your argument is sound, because...because...because??...Oh that's right, you don't got shit.

In order to have a position to stand on, you need some facts. Wich apparently you are not only short on, but if you had them, you'd know better than to bother chiming in to make the claim you did in the first place.


Class dismissed.

_____________________________

Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 8:04:55 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

You point is valid, but limited...

My point is valid, period. Otherwise, you wouldn't have stepped back from your "reversibility" argument so quickly. And I don't agree with your modified formulation either.

K.

You point has limited validity. And I have have neither stepped back from nor reformulated what you call the "reversibility" argument.

As long as a person is living, there's hope. That hope is extinguished forever when they're dead. Whether you prefer not to see this, or choose to bury in it hyperbole makes no difference whatsoever.

If in doubt, just put yourself in the place of someone wrongly convicted - what would you prefer? A death sentence from which there's no return once carried out or a life imprisonment sentence, which would leave you with a glimmer of hope, no matter how tenuous that may prove to be.

I know which one I'd choose.



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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do yo... - 9/12/2011 8:12:16 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

quote:


When you are able to refute my position we will then proceed to the rest of your assinine post point by point. But if you can't get out of the blocks how do you expect to get to the finish line?


Are you retarded? You haven't produced one single snipet to counter anything in the original wich you not only misquoted to misrepresent your pathetic attempt at an argument, but you then went on to try and support it by claiming your argument is sound, because...because...because??...Oh that's right, you don't got shit.

In order to have a position to stand on, you need some facts. Wich apparently you are not only short on, but if you had them, you'd know better than to bother chiming in to make the claim you did in the first place.


Class dismissed.

quote:

I just wanted to jump in real quick and enlighten a few of you lazy twits who like to jump to bold conclusions instead of taking ten minutes out of your life to shed some of your idiocy and find out the truth.

Based on the UCR, the BJS, and DPIC the following statistics have been gathered since 1976, and have maintained a linear pattern with a +/- of 3% of all reported crimes and executions based on those crimes in the united states.


Races of defendants executed in the U.S. since 1976:

Black 35%
White 56%
Latino 7%
Other 2%

While you are
"enlighten a few of you lazy twits who like to jump to bold conclusions instead of taking ten minutes out of your life to shed some of your idiocy and find out the truth."
You might heed your own advice.
There are about four times as many whites in the u.s. than blacks. Simple math would indicate that the black executions sould be about twenty five percent of the white level instead of about seventy five percent.

Please show which part of your post and my response to it is a misquote.

(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 200
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