RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped?

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:05:12 AM)
quote: Yes, he is and has stated over and over again that a particular sexual preference is based on bigotry. No he isn't and no he has not. What he is and has said all along is that excluding a person for bisexuality is NOT a sexual preference.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:05:27 AM)
quote: Nowhere, each of us learns it some time after we are born. We are not born disliking G/B/L people, we learn to. That is yet another very sweeping statement not born out by science. As the second article points out, homosexual males are specifically not attracted to females based on pheromones. I refuse to argue the difference between invisble and indiscernable when we re speaking of something that resides in the hypothalamus. Sorry, I just don't believe you can discern how your hypothalamus is reacting at any given moment. And I would list how many times this conversational thread has referenced sexual attraction, but that's way too tedious for me. The science of sexual attraction, and of what is and is not learned behavior when it comes to sexual selection, is constantly evolving as new breakthroughs are made. It's clear at this point that a predisposition to homosexuality is genetic, in other words, not learned behavior. A person does not make a choice to be homosexual, and we can assume neither do they make a choice to be bisexual or heterosexual. A person is hard wired that way. The question I am tossing out there is: When someone uses the term reptile brain, what exactly do they mean? Here's a scientific definition: The reptilian complex, also known as the R-complex or "reptilian brain" was the name MacLean gave to the basal ganglia, structures derived from the floor of the forebrain during development. The term derives from the fact that comparative neuroanatomists once believed that the forebrains of reptiles and birds were dominated by these structures. MacLean contended that the reptilian complex was responsible for species typical instinctual behaviors involved in aggression, dominance, territoriality, and ritual displays. Again, I agree with your basic premise that much bias against homosexuality and bi sexuality is learned. I am disagreeing with your sweeping statements, since the science of human sexual selection is quite complex..

Arpig -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:06:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: If a person considers themselves bisexual and has engaged in same sex activities, then it's no longer a possibility. It actually happened. It exists. Note the qualifier. This changes the entire equation, does it not? However, in this case, it is not the bisexuality that is the issue, it is the engaging in same sex activity. What?? Oh Jesus fucking Christ, what part of it don't you understand?

DeviantlyD -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:12:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Seriously? Yes seriously. It is based on an actual physical trait, no different than a preference for redheads. Look, either have a coffee or go to bed, it's 2 AM for you and you're obviously not wide awake. Skip the condescension. I woke up at 4 in the afternoon, so it hasn't even been 12 hours. quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Yes, he is and has stated over and over again that a particular sexual preference is based on bigotry. No he isn't and no he has not. What he is and has said all along is that excluding a person for bisexuality is NOT a sexual preference. Sorry, but you're wrong. You simply cannot presume to know what is involved in each individual's sexual preferences. Excluding a person for being bisexual can be and is a sexual preference. If something doesn't float the boat of an individual, it isn't bigotry. It's simply a matter of them not finding that person sexually appealing.

Arpig -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:18:11 AM)
quote: As the second article points out, homosexual males are specifically not attracted to females based on pheromones. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I said. quote: Again, I agree with your basic premise that much bias against homosexuality and bi sexuality is learned. Then what the fuck are you arguing with me for? That is the point I have been making. You keep talking about sexual preferences and referencing and linking articles utterly unrelated to anything I have said as evidence of....something. But damned if I can figure out why you arguing with me about it, I never said anything about any of the things you are talking about. Let me restate in no uncertain terms for you.... REJECTING A PERSON AS A POTENTIAL MATE ON THE BASIS OF BISEXUALITY IS NOT A SEXUAL PREFERENCE. There is that clear enough for you?

DeviantlyD -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:21:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig REJECTING A PERSON AS A POTENTIAL MATE ON THE BASIS OF BISEXUALITY IS NOT A SEXUAL PREFERENCE. \ It is. It isn't about bigotry. You are making a generalized statement that cannot be applied to all.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:23:01 AM)
:)

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:23:34 AM)
quote: Again, I agree with your basic premise that much bias against homosexuality and bi sexuality is learned What would you say is the biological basis of believing that all (fill in sexual preference) (fill in behaviour) for example all bisexuals will leave their opposite sex partner for someone of the same sex? I consider a bias learned behaviour rather than something biological or inherent as opposed to sexual preference which is biological.

Arpig -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:24:16 AM)
quote: Skip the condescension. I woke up at 4 in the afternoon, so it hasn't even been 12 hours. OK, fair enough. It wasn't condescension, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you're not tired, then you're just stupid. quote: Excluding a person for being bisexual can be and is a sexual preference. No it can't and isn't. [image]local://upfiles/218457/DB0C2A6F6E3349D8BF3D21FE7F141047.jpg[/image]

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:25:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig REJECTING A PERSON AS A POTENTIAL MATE ON THE BASIS OF BISEXUALITY IS NOT A SEXUAL PREFERENCE. \ It is. It isn't about bigotry. You are making a generalized statement that cannot be applied to all. I would rewrite that to state: You are making a generalized statement that is not backed up by science. I have listed articles about sexual selection and the basis of gender preference b/c that is exactly what this thread is about, in my never humble opinion. If you want to discuss bigotry against bisexuals, I suggest you start a new thread.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:31:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Skip the condescension. I woke up at 4 in the afternoon, so it hasn't even been 12 hours. OK, fair enough. It wasn't condescension, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you're not tired, then you're just stupid. quote: Excluding a person for being bisexual can be and is a sexual preference. No it can't and isn't. [image]local://upfiles/218457/DB0C2A6F6E3349D8BF3D21FE7F141047.jpg[/image] The way you are responding is immature. Other people on these forums can have a different point of view, but you seem unwilling to accept that.

Arpig -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:31:55 AM)
quote: If you want to discuss bigotry against bisexuals, I suggest you start a new thread. Um, that is exactly what we have been discussing all fucking night. the discussion started about 16 hours ago. ( http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3848693 ) well, technically about 19 hours ago in this post, but there was a 3 hour gap in there before the side topic took over the thread. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3848355 quote: I have listed articles about sexual selection and the basis of gender preference b/c that is exactly what this thread is about, in my never humble opinion. Nope, sorry. You're in the wrong thread.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:38:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig REJECTING A PERSON AS A POTENTIAL MATE ON THE BASIS OF BISEXUALITY IS NOT A SEXUAL PREFERENCE. \ It is. It isn't about bigotry. You are making a generalized statement that cannot be applied to all. I would rewrite that to state: You are making a generalized statement that is not backed up by science. I have listed articles about sexual selection and the basis of gender preference b/c that is exactly what this thread is about, in my never humble opinion. If you want to discuss bigotry against bisexuals, I suggest you start a new thread. I didn't bring up the topic of bigotry, I was responding to the following post: quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Sexual preferences don't count as bigotry No, sorry Pam, you're wrong in this case.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:52:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: Again, I agree with your basic premise that much bias against homosexuality and bi sexuality is learned What would you say is the biological basis of believing that all (fill in sexual preference) (fill in behaviour) for example all bisexuals will leave their opposite sex partner for someone of the same sex? I consider a bias learned behaviour rather than something biological or inherent as opposed to sexual preference which is biological. I have already stated what I think about that kind of obvious bias (post #225): There is no doubt based on some of the responses to this thread, that some prejudice against homosexuals or bisexuals is based on ignorant bigotry (Des' comments come to mind). I am, however, pointing out that when you are speaking of human sexual attraction, you do have to be careful making such as broad statements as you have done. When you are talking about sexual biases and sexual preferences, you have to keep in mind that both biases and preferences have roots not just in our conscious brain, but in our unconscious brain as well. Well, you don't have to, but to ignore that is to ignore current scientific data.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:55:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig REJECTING A PERSON AS A POTENTIAL MATE ON THE BASIS OF BISEXUALITY IS NOT A SEXUAL PREFERENCE. \ It is. It isn't about bigotry. You are making a generalized statement that cannot be applied to all. I would rewrite that to state: You are making a generalized statement that is not backed up by science. I have listed articles about sexual selection and the basis of gender preference b/c that is exactly what this thread is about, in my never humble opinion. If you want to discuss bigotry against bisexuals, I suggest you start a new thread. I didn't bring up the topic of bigotry, I was responding to the following post: quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Sexual preferences don't count as bigotry No, sorry Pam, you're wrong in this case. The statement in red is your quote. Post #245 to be exact.

Arpig -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 5:56:03 AM)
And the reason I am posting the way I am is because you and others are being stupid. quote: Other people on these forums can have a different point of view, but you seem unwilling to accept that. I am perfectly willing to accept that, as shown in this post made an hour and a half ago http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3850707 quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, no matter how misguided and unrelated to fact it may be. Enjoy being wrong. Yet you seem unable to accept that I have my point of view. Perhaps your problem is that my point of view happens to be correct. You're wrong. Shut up and deal with it.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 6:06:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig REJECTING A PERSON AS A POTENTIAL MATE ON THE BASIS OF BISEXUALITY IS NOT A SEXUAL PREFERENCE. \ It is. It isn't about bigotry. You are making a generalized statement that cannot be applied to all. I would rewrite that to state: You are making a generalized statement that is not backed up by science. I have listed articles about sexual selection and the basis of gender preference b/c that is exactly what this thread is about, in my never humble opinion. If you want to discuss bigotry against bisexuals, I suggest you start a new thread. I didn't bring up the topic of bigotry, I was responding to the following post: quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Sexual preferences don't count as bigotry No, sorry Pam, you're wrong in this case. The statement in red is your quote. Post #245 to be exact. Yes, in response to posts (including the one I quoted) made by Arpig. That has been the crux of my response to him. He's claiming that a woman can't possibly exclude a bisexual man on sexual preferences alone and that the reason she would do so is that she is bigoted. I disagree and feel that sexual preferences definitely play a role in whether or not a woman may exclude a bisexual partner.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 6:11:46 AM)
Here's where I am at on this subject. Which again IS: bias/bigotry and how it relates to sexual preference, which IS sexual selection. All sexual biases and preferences are based on sexual selection. If homosexuality is genetic (and we now have proof that it is), then we can agree all gender preference is genetic, including bisexuality. I don't think it takes a genius to extrapolate that if gender preference is genetic, than gender bias may be as well. The original OP did reference the "reptile brain" which is not learned behavior, but instinctive. What is the nature of instinctive behavior? Genetic.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 6:13:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig And the reason I am posting the way I am is because you and others are being stupid. That's your opinion. It isn't based on any factual information. quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Other people on these forums can have a different point of view, but you seem unwilling to accept that. I am perfectly willing to accept that, as shown in this post made an hour and a half ago http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3850707 quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, no matter how misguided and unrelated to fact it may be. Enjoy being wrong. Yet you seem unable to accept that I have my point of view. Perhaps your problem is that my point of view happens to be correct. You're wrong. Shut up and deal with it. I stated it twice that you had your opinion and I had mine. But to be so blatantly belligerent as you have been implies you were not sincere in accepting another viewpoint. Have I once called you stupid? Have I once told you to "shut up and deal with it"?

sexyred1 -> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped? (9/18/2011 6:13:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt This conversation has gone in some interesting directions. First, that the males were imprisoned is only important to the scenario b/c it means they were penned and therefore would have limited means to flee from their attacker. I don't believe the OP meant to infer that females would find them unacceptable due to their prison time itself, but what happened to them in prison, (i.e., rape). Second, if you are not attracted to a certain group b/c of looks, then actually it is prejudice. I, for instance, am not attracted to Middle Eastern males. For some reason they just squeak me out. I have no idea why, but I am aware this means that despite my intentions of being open minded and non-prejudicial towards all, my reptile brain (I love that term) says: No! That's what prejudice IS. "an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason." Since I cannot possibly know all Middle Eastern Males (anymore than Peon can know all Inuit females), my not being attracted is prejudice, in MY opinion. We all have such a knee jerk reaction to thinking "all prejudice is wrong and must be eradicated" that we often don't see it. BTW, please do not misunderstand me, I am not saying prejudice is correct, I am saying it can't be entirely eradicated, b/c our reptile brain wants or in this case doesn't want what it doesn't want. Sexually I do not like skinny men. I prefer a larger man with good musculature and some real meat on his bones. I am in fact prejudiced against thin men. I understand it is not PC to say so, but in my mind, that's the truth. Now, how much of our reptile brain comes from nature or nurture is perhaps fodder for another interesting thread. Nice to hear some honesty here. What some people here are not getting, is the concept of preferences. Preferences are just that, whether some people like to rant and rave about preferences being prejudiced. If I do not want to chat with a man who is bisexual, whether or not I would find him physically attractive has nothing to do with bigotry, it has to do with my choice not to enter into something that I have no preference for. As for the OP's question, I would not have any negative issue with anyone, male or female having been nonconsenually raped, but like others have said, if they were in jail for raping a child, then I would not give a damn. If they were in jail overnight for smoking some weed and they were raped, then I would.

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