quote:

They didn't start a war. They simply enfored their absolute inviolable right to control their own frontier. Technically the Turkish vessels could have been sunk after the initial order to heave to and proceed to an inspection port was ignored.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sinequanon22

DomKen said:

quote:

They didn't start a war. They simply enfored their absolute inviolable right to control their own frontier. Technically the Turkish vessels could have been sunk after the initial order to heave to and proceed to an inspection port was ignored.

You realize that Israel raided the flotilla (and killed 9 people, some with execution-style shots to the head and chest at point-blank range), in international waters.

quote:

The search engine is your friend. We dont need to rehash things continually everytime some know-nothing shows up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

be careful what you wish for

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
the anti-Israel UN

quote:

You apparently dont realize that even the anti-Israel UN [sic] determined they had the right to board.

quote:

Leaked U.N. Report: Israeli Raid On Gaza Flotilla Boat ‘Excessive And Unreasonable’


A U.N. report about the Israeli naval commando raid on a Turkish boat in the 2010 Gaza Freedom Flotilla said the manner in which Israelis boarded the boat was “excessive and unreasonable,” according to a leaked copy posted online by the New York Times. The report, which was to be released Friday, was authored by former New Zealand Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer and an assembled panel that included Israelis and Turks to examine the incident where eight Turks and one American were killed by Israeli forces.
While the report affirmed the legitimacy of Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip for security reasons, the authors called the loss of life resulting from Israel’s raid “unacceptable.” The report called on Israel to express “regret” — something Israeli officials have already rejected — and pay compensation to the families of victims.

[snip]

One of the victims of the raid, Furkan Doğan, was an American citizen of Turkish descent who lived in Turkey. The report described the circumstances of his death and its immediate aftermath:

quote:


Furkan Doğan received five gunshot wounds in the back of his head, nose, left leg, left ankle and in the back, all from close range. A citizen of the United States, Mr. Doğan was a 19-year-old high school student with ambitions of becoming a medical doctor. Mr. Doğan’s motionless, wounded body was kicked and shot upon, execution-style by two Israeli soldiers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Yeah, well you should tell that to YOUR OWN People,

quote:

ORIGINAL: sinequanon22

quote:

You apparently dont realize that even the anti-Israel UN [sic] determined they had the right to board.

Oh hey buddy, you're behind the times.

From Sept. 1 of this year:

quote:

Leaked U.N. Report: Israeli Raid On Gaza Flotilla Boat ‘Excessive And Unreasonable’


A U.N. report about the Israeli naval commando raid on a Turkish boat in the 2010 Gaza Freedom Flotilla said the manner in which Israelis boarded the boat was “excessive and unreasonable,” according to a leaked copy posted online by the New York Times. The report, which was to be released Friday, was authored by former New Zealand Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer and an assembled panel that included Israelis and Turks to examine the incident where eight Turks and one American were killed by Israeli forces.
While the report affirmed the legitimacy of Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip for security reasons, the authors called the loss of life resulting from Israel’s raid “unacceptable.” The report called on Israel to express “regret” — something Israeli officials have already rejected — and pay compensation to the families of victims.

[snip]

One of the victims of the raid, Furkan Doğan, was an American citizen of Turkish descent who lived in Turkey. The report described the circumstances of his death and its immediate aftermath:

quote:


Furkan Doğan received five gunshot wounds in the back of his head, nose, left leg, left ankle and in the back, all from close range. A citizen of the United States, Mr. Doğan was a 19-year-old high school student with ambitions of becoming a medical doctor. Mr. Doğan’s motionless, wounded body was kicked and shot upon, execution-style by two Israeli soldiers.

http://bit.ly/ngsc8I

Just friendly, peaceful Israel Defending Itself against dangerous high school students who are so Evil they need to be shot five times in the back of the head to stop them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
the anti-Israel UN

I am sorry What now?




the UN INVENTED BY ISRAEL,

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Yeah, well you should tell that to YOUR OWN People,

LMAO. You are mistaken about who "My Own" people are. Unless there is a lot of Jewish ancestry in the Black Mountains of Wales that I didnt know about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Yeah, well you should tell that to YOUR OWN People,

LMAO. You are mistaken about who "My Own" people are. Unless there is a lot of Jewish ancestry in the Black Mountains of Wales that I didnt know about.

If that was the only thing you read..... then..... you need to visit some doctors.
PS: I was not mistaken, I know your OWN People DAMN well,

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Youre in denial about a lot of things. The UN has clearly been anti-Israeli for the last 40 years.
(Besides being factually wrong about who "invented" Israel.)

quote:

No, you are quickly falling into the tweetybelle pile by intentionally quoting only those parts of the report you like, and ignoring what I directly said in my post. The report said the blockade and the boarding was legal under international law (as I said in my post), AND further states that the Israelis acted in self defense when they were attacked. The report only then goes on to your section to say the force was excessive.

quote:


The Panel reviewed these reports and further information and clarifications it received in
written form and through direct meetings with Points of Contact appointed by each
government. In light of the information so gathered, the Panel has examined and
identified the facts, circumstances and context of the incident and considered and
recommended ways of avoiding similar incidents in the future. In so doing it was not
acting as a Court and was not asked to adjudicate on legal liability. Its findings and
recommendations are therefore not intended to attribute any legal responsibilities.


i. The events of 31 May 2010 should never have taken place as they did and
strenuous efforts should be made to prevent the occurrence of such incidents
in the future.
ii. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is
subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces
a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade
was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons
from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the
requirements of international law.
iii. The flotilla was a non-governmental endeavour, involving vessels and
participants from a number of countries.
iv. Although people are entitled to express their political views, the flotilla acted
recklessly in attempting to breach the naval blockade. The majority of the
flotilla participants had no violent intentions, but there exist serious questions
about the conduct, true nature and objectives of the flotilla organizers,
particularly IHH. The actions of the flotilla needlessly carried the potential
for escalation.

quote:

Besides being factually wrong about who "invented" Israel.)

quote:

During the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine against the British Mandate of Palestine the militant Zionist group the Irgun carried out sixty attacks against Arabs and British soldiers.[1] Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by the New York Times,[2][3] the Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry,[4] prominent world figures such as Winston Churchill[5] and Jewish figures such as Hannah Arendt, Albert Einstein, and many others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Youre in denial about a lot of things. The UN has clearly been anti-Israeli for the last 40 years.
(Besides being factually wrong about who "invented" Israel.)

It was Declared, by one big Zionest Group,
It gave the right to build what so called (Israel).
It nearly did not do anything against its own ceration from the start,

or you want me to discripe that Zionest = Israelies.

PS: these are your OWN people.......

I need a damn drink now

quote:

ORIGINAL: sinequanon22

quote:

No, you are quickly falling into the tweetybelle pile by intentionally quoting only those parts of the report you like, and ignoring what I directly said in my post. The report said the blockade and the boarding was legal under international law (as I said in my post), AND further states that the Israelis acted in self defense when they were attacked. The report only then goes on to your section to say the force was excessive.

More Truth Because I Deem It Thusly from willbeur. Oh joy.


Read more carefully, this report was written in July of this year. Here's a sample of its findings:

quote:


The Panel reviewed these reports and further information and clarifications it received in
written form and through direct meetings with Points of Contact appointed by each
government. In light of the information so gathered, the Panel has examined and
identified the facts, circumstances and context of the incident and considered and
recommended ways of avoiding similar incidents in the future. In so doing it was not
acting as a Court and was not asked to adjudicate on legal liability. Its findings and
recommendations are therefore not intended to attribute any legal responsibilities.


i. The events of 31 May 2010 should never have taken place as they did and
strenuous efforts should be made to prevent the occurrence of such incidents
in the future.
ii. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is
subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces
a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade
was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons
from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the
requirements of international law.
iii. The flotilla was a non-governmental endeavour, involving vessels and
participants from a number of countries.
iv. Although people are entitled to express their political views, the flotilla acted
recklessly in attempting to breach the naval blockade. The majority of the
flotilla participants had no violent intentions, but there exist serious questions
about the conduct, true nature and objectives of the flotilla organizers,
particularly IHH. The actions of the flotilla needlessly carried the potential
for escalation.

http://bit.ly/qdfgM0

Not exactly the ringing endorsement you'd like everyone to think it was. Does the fact that these people stood up to Israel's crimes and aggression, even recklessly, make their deaths permissible? Was it a good thing that those nine people were gunned down by Israeli forces for trying to bring food to the desperate, oppressed people in Gaza?

I'd really like to hear you explain how any of this is morally justified. You're heavy on deceleration and opinion, light on fact or reasonable analysis.

I'd also like to see you explain with specificity how the UN has been "anti-Israel for the past 40 years". You've also yet to actually address anything from the first post you criticized by any means other than calling me stupid.

Pretend all you like about who's the Serious, Informed commenter, but I'll let the words stand for themselves.

quote:

Besides being factually wrong about who "invented" Israel.)

You're right, it was pro-statehood terrorists :)

quote:

During the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine against the British Mandate of Palestine the militant Zionist group the Irgun carried out sixty attacks against Arabs and British soldiers.[1] Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by the New York Times,[2][3] the Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry,[4] prominent world figures such as Winston Churchill[5] and Jewish figures such as Hannah Arendt, Albert Einstein, and many others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks

quote:

The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is
subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces
a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade
was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons
from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the
requirements of international law.

quote:

And youre 14 years late on your "pro-statehood" terrorist creating Israel bullshit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sinequanon22

...

Are you blind? You stand there trying to righteously opine about how I'm selective and yet ignore every piece of information I've quoted except one paragraph concerning "legitimacy."

First of all, get your logical connections right. The overall "legitimacy" of a naval blockade (an act of war when committed against another state, btw) exists independent of the specific acts undertaken in an attempt to enforce it. I'll create a simple analogy, so you can follow.

Imagine a law banning the sale of rat poison-tainted cookies. Assume this law is duly passed by a legislature and is a legitimate exercise of their power. Now imagine that the food inspection agency responsible for the law decides to enforce it by bursting through the front doors of Nabisco factories and gunning down people working the equipment making cookies.

Is the law illegitimate merely by the fact of an illegitimate exercise of it? No, obviously it is not.

Now we disagree over the actual legitimacy of the blockade--me because I think purposefully starving hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians is a monstrous crime of nearly unimaginable proportions; you because Scary Terrorists are always out to get those Peaceful Israelis who only want to steal land and enforce a brutal apartheid without interference.

I will give you this, you are dogged in your determination to not stray from Israel-apologist orthodoxy.

You've produced none of your own facts, no support for your opinions (especially the ones you first criticized me for regarding the Israel lobby in the US) and you just keep on digging the whole deeper.

quote:

And youre 14 years late on your "pro-statehood" terrorist creating Israel bullshit.

And what do ya know, another totally unsupported claim in response to my statement supported by evidence. Your patter is getting very tiring. I bet you're extremely concerned with which brand becomes the next national spokesmodel, aren't you? Will it be Coke or Pepsi? Red Team or Blue Team? The very fate of the heavens depends upon the answer!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

One quick question, how come it was OK to attack or accost them in international waters ? I thought those were international waters. If the UN was so anti-Israel, why did they condone this ?

T^T