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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 2:38:12 PM   
avena


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quote:

I'm gonna ask it. I've been wondering this since last night: How in the world does someone f**k you (even if you're sleeping) without you knowing anything?


...Sleeping pills, or any other medication that makes someone sleepy or affects their cognitive abilities...


(in reply to xxblushesxx)
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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 2:41:28 PM   
xxblushesxx


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I used to take ambien, (yeah, I know the whole sleep-walking bit, but it's not that common) but even with that I would have known.
I also have a few drinks some evenings. (sometimes more that a few) I'd have to be almost in an alcohol coma to not know. It just seems...odd.

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 3:25:38 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I used to take ambien, (yeah, I know the whole sleep-walking bit, but it's not that common) but even with that I would have known.
I also have a few drinks some evenings. (sometimes more that a few) I'd have to be almost in an alcohol coma to not know. It just seems...odd.


Lord, the entire drawn out scenario is odd and the excuses are dull. Oh so dull. Even the fantastic bits are dull.

agirl



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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 3:41:10 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Lord, the entire drawn out scenario is odd and the excuses are dull. Oh so dull. Even the fantastic bits are dull.
Yeah, that about nails it. What can I say, stupid is as stupid does,

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 3:52:10 PM   
Lockit


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OP... stop regretting things. Stop kicking yourself in the ass and looking at what caused what and who did what. Get mad, get determined... look at your kids and see what they deserve and make this about them. Then get gone, stop with the nonsense, talk to a shelter for some counseling if need be or a counselor and stop the madness you are trapped in even within your own mind.

It is about the kids now. No more games. Your anger will enforce that you do the right thing and give you the strength for a time to stay gone and not go to wishful thinking. Stop with the you and him... it is the time for the kids now and you do everything within your power and then some to give them a better life than this shit. Otherwise... give them to someone who will.

Tough stuff to hear isn't it? Be a mom.. even if you make mistakes being a woman with a man... and focus on that job. Then work on the woman part with a partner after some counseling. But stop kicking ass in regrets, the blame game, the heartbreak, the victimization and get on with it... for your kids.

You can do it.


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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 4:33:27 PM   
Rochsub2009


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StacyLostnSpace,
One thing that I forgot to mention.  You said that your husband arrives at the wrong times to pick up the kids.  You also said that he kept you and the kids waiting for over an hour.  As you file for custody of the kids, and more importantly, when you apply for child support, these details are going to be very important.  Start keeping a detailed journal.  Every time he fails to show up, write it down.  Every time he shows up late, write it down.  Every time he fails to keep his promises to the kids, write it down.  Every time he makes you meet him halfway, rather than coming to pick them up at your home, write it down.  If he does anything that you think is endangering them, write it down.  If he constantly exposes them to a string of different women, write it down.

I know that this will seem like you're spying on him, or even worse, like you're being a snitch.  But don't worry about that.  JUST DO IT!  It's time for you to start being an adult and looking out for the kids.  You can't continue to allow him to get away with B.S.  Moreover, this exercise will help you to feel like you're taking control of your situation.

I'm sure that you already know that you should do this, but I figured that it's better to spell it out, rather than make assumptions about what you know and what you don't know.

Good luck.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 9/17/2011 5:14:48 PM >

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 4:50:39 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Excellent post, Roch. You are such an incredible class act Roch. As if we women need another reason to adore you.

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 5:02:05 PM   
barelynangel


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OP, you would be surprised at how many people have been through a lot of what you stated in your OP.  So be careful in believeing people just don't understand they do.  And while you may think your post will help people, you are getting information from many people who have been through what you are describing with and without kids. 

Just because they don't air it in commeraderie to you in response but instead kick you in your behind and sound harsh, doesn't mean they don't get it, it means they are telling you what to do to move on.

Your story really isn't original to many women.  So be careful in brushing people into the they just don't understand concept.  You'd be surprised at how many who do who have responded over these last 3 pages.

angel

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 5:38:10 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

StacyLostnSpace,
One thing that I forgot to mention.  You said that your husband arrives at the wrong times to pick up the kids.  You also said that he kept you and the kids waiting for over an hour.  As you file for custody of the kids, and more importantly, when you apply for child support, these details are going to be very important.  Start keeping a detailed journal.  Every time he fails to show up, write it down.  Every time he shows up late, write it down.  Every time he fails to keep his promises to the kids, write it down.  Every time he makes you meet him halfway, rather than coming to pick them up at your home, write it down.  If he does anything that you think is endangering them, write it down.  If he constantly exposes them to a string of different women, write it down.

I know that this will seem like you're spying on him, or even worse, like you're being a snitch.  But don't worry about that.  JUST DO IT!  It's time for you to start being an adult and looking out for the kids.  You can't continue to allow him to get away with B.S.  Moreover, this exercise will help you to feel like you're taking control of your situation.

I'm sure that you already know that you should do this, but I figured that it's better to spell it out, rather than make assumptions about what you know and what you don't know.

Good luck.


While you do all of this, remember to take note of your own less than *great* behaviour*.So make sure your act is squeaky clean. All the time you're marking the kids father on his stuff, remember that you aren't far behind him and as he hasn't been able to blab about you here, you get the back slaps because you did.

You've both been a pair of selfish douches.

agirl


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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 5:43:34 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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So wait, Roch's advice isn't spot on? Huh imagine that. Then again not everyone is as perfect as you are. Then again you found this thread boring, why are you still here? I would think you had better things to do.

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 5:58:02 PM   
barelynangel


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Actually zephyr, she is correct.  If she is going to start identifying everything she deems wrong with him to the court, he can and will do the same and believe me, courts while use to same don't appreciate someone mudslinging only to find out they have been playing in the mud themselves. 


I think agirl's advice was spot on -- if you plan to hold his faults up to the court, make sure your i's are dotted and t's are crossed because from her story here -- she isn't exactly spot on her own decisions in this marraige and choices she made with regard to the kids.

And OP, you are on a BDSM website spouting your story, that could very well effect you in court either by a rebuttal concept or as a indication you weren't as adverse as you claim -- if that makes sense.

Just be careful, in a divorce where custody is at issue, everything counts and matters.


angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 9/17/2011 6:00:15 PM >


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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 6:02:25 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Ooops, I misunderstood. I thought the "he" she was talking about was Roch rather than the OP's ex. <insert blushing icon here>

ETA: you know what I should just stop posting until I'm no longer sick. I've been making goofs all day.

< Message edited by zephyroftheNorth -- 9/17/2011 6:09:12 PM >


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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 7:38:20 PM   
Rochsub2009


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Agirl & Barelynangel,
I agree with you.  Slinging mud goes both ways.  However, I am assuming that the OP is now on the right path, and is no longer making the mistakes that she's made in the past.  If that's not the case, then her case will be pretty weak.

For the sake of her children, I pray that the OP is now making decisions that reflect her role as a mother, and that are in the best interest of the kids.

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 7:41:17 PM   
MagiksSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I think she realises she fucked up and this exercise is more cathartic than anything else.  Dissecting the author's complicity in her own demise strikes me as a little self-indulgent.



I disagree.  Sadly, BDSM is full of situations that are socially/morally/psychologically questionable.  For example, there are many people who are in polyamorous relationships who are completely content with their situations.  Many of them post regularly on this board.  Despite what happened to the OP, these people might correctly argue that their poly relationships are completely healthy.

There is a thin line between BDSM and abuse.  And that line is a moving target.  Many outsiders would say that anyone who engages in M/s or D/s relationships is "crazy", and they'd suggest that we all need counseling.  Perhaps they're right.  Perhaps not.  That's a discussion for another time.

Where does the line between consensual masochism and abuse lie?  When does it stop being "polyamory", and start being "cheating"?  When does it stop being "mind fucking", and start being "mental abuse"?

That's the inherent problem with BDSM.  The lines between kink and abuse are often difficult to find.  Moreover, in my experience, lots of people who aren't emotionally healthy to begin with seem to be drawn to BDSM.  That's a formula for disaster.

The OP's situation has already happened.  Nothing can be done about it.  But it can be used as a cautionary tale for those who may make a similar mistake in the future.

None of us can say where the line between kink and abuse lies.  The answer would be different for every individual.  But because we can't say where the line is, we can warn others to be careful in their BDSM relationships.  We can warn them to take daily inventory of their feelings.  We can advise them to never ignore their internal warning signals.  If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.  But only the individual can know for sure.  So they need to constantly ask themselves, "Is this healthy?"  And the moment they hesitate in their answer, they need to hit the brakes........hard.

As we've tried to warn the OP, everyone is responsible for their own decisions.  Sure, we all make mistakes.  But it's up to us to recognize those mistakes and make course corrections before we drive off a cliff.

The OP didn't do that.  There's nothing that we can do to change that.  But her story is a great case study that others can use to examine their own situations.  There may even be a few people who have read this, and begun to question their own situation.  If they are taking personal inventory of their own actions/feelings/decisions, then that is a good thing, and another potential disaster may be averted.

Most of us would agree that kink also carries an inherent potential for hurt (both physical and mental).  Moreover, many (most?) of us knows someone who has had negative experiences with BDSM.  That's a reality that we don't talk about nearly often enough on these boards.

But I do apologize if the OP feels unfairly criticized.  I can't speak for others, but that wasn't my goal.


That is actually the easiest thing in BDSM to determine. The line between BDSM and abuse is concent, plain and simple.

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(in reply to Rochsub2009)
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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 7:49:09 PM   
Rochsub2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
That is actually the easiest thing in BDSM to determine. The line between BDSM and abuse is concent, plain and simple.


I don't think it's quite that simple.  Sometimes, people give consent to abusive situations.  They don't realize until later in the relationship that they're being abused.

Just peruse the archives of this board.  Lots of people have shared stories about how they let others do things to them that they now regret.  Many of them even have psychological scars from the experiences. Newbies, in particular, are prone to let people do things that a more experienced person would never have allowed.  But sometimes, people don't realize just how bad their situation is until it's too late.  I think the OP may have been such a case.

There are lots of people who ended up in abusive situations who gave their consent.  But that doesn't change the fact that it was abusive nevertheless.  Moreover, the consent argument would never stand in a court of law.

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 8:07:30 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
I don't think it's quite that simple.  Sometimes, people give consent to abusive situations.  They don't realize until later in the relationship that they're being abused.

Just peruse the archives of this board.  Lots of people have shared stories about how they let others do things to them that they now regret.  Many of them even have psychological scars from the experiences. Newbies, in particular, are prone to let people do things that a more experienced person would never have allowed.  But sometimes, people don't realize just how bad their situation is until it's too late.  I think the OP may have been such a case.

There are lots of people who ended up in abusive situations who gave their consent.  But that doesn't change the fact that it was abusive nevertheless.  Moreover, the consent argument would never stand in a court of law.


Quite frankly, there are a number of folks who are in dynamics now that if the s-type chose to end the arrangement, could go back to what happened during the dynamic and decide in hindsight that some of the things we do are abusive.  Heck, clip could come to the boards and say that he now sees our scenes as abusive.  If his frame of mind should change, how exactly are we sadists supposed to foresee that?




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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 8:14:31 PM   
RexDarcy


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LP, We Sadists can't forsee the outcome any better than We do on anything else. All We can do is make sure that We are realistic with what We are doing now and be realistic with the potential outcome(s).

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 8:41:48 PM   
Rochsub2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Quite frankly, there are a number of folks who are in dynamics now that if the s-type chose to end the arrangement, could go back to what happened during the dynamic and decide in hindsight that some of the things we do are abusive.  Heck, clip could come to the boards and say that he now sees our scenes as abusive.  If his frame of mind should change, how exactly are we sadists supposed to foresee that?



That's one of the inherent problems of BDSM.  Someone could accuse a sadist of abuse, and there would be little that the sadist could do to defend their position.  Consent is certainly not a viable defense in a court of law.  We've had that discussion many times on these boards.

But that is actually a different problem than what I was describing.  I was referring more to newbies who find themselves in bad situations simply because they didn't know any better.  I wasn't talking about vindictive ex-subs who may be seeking revenge.  That's a completely different situation.

Unfortunately, the latter situation is one that is probably impossible to foresee.  I guess that's why the vetting process is so important.  BDSM requires a lot of trust on both sides.

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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 10:14:16 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

That is actually the easiest thing in BDSM to determine. The line between BDSM and abuse is concent, plain and simple.
Ah, so in the OP's case it wasn't abuse at all then, because she consented for 10 years. Or did it become abuse only at the end when she stopped consenting? And is that change somehow retroactive? What wasn't abuse for 10 years because she consented to it is now abuse because she changed her mind after the fact?

See, really anything but easy.


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RE: Abuse in BDSM clothing - 9/17/2011 10:24:19 PM   
JanahX


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What the hell does consent have to do with stupid people making stupid choices in their lives? Whether it be newbies, subs, sadists, the postman, the baker, & indian chief .... stupid is, is what stupid does.

Only in the bdsm realm is there an excuse for everything that goes wrong and everyone that goes whaaaa is a victim. Zero self responsibility and god knows there are NO damaged people that participate in this shit .. newbies included. (we all know they only start out as full and wholesome people)

< Message edited by JanahX -- 9/17/2011 10:25:02 PM >


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