RE: Do you support a Palestinian State?

RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Do you support a Palestinian State?

Yes

52% (18)

38% (13)

Unsure

8% (3)

Total Votes : 34

(last vote on : 9/20/2011 5:36:01 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

kdsub -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 9:01:17 AM)
So you agree with me

Anaxagoras -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 10:02:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras The Islamic capital of the region is Al-Ramleh, it was never Jerusalem except for the Christian Crusaders, wrong, The Islamic capital of the region was Damascus, or Bagdad, for centuries, I was referring to Palestine or Filistin as they called it, not Syria or Iraq. The city is more commonly known as Ramla. It wasn't very far from Jerusalem, and existed from the 7th Century. It faded as Jerusalem benefitted from an Ottoman building programme in the 16th century and the influx of Jews from the diaspora from the 13th Century onward. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras I remember the offer a few years back of one million dollars to give to anyone who finds a single mention of the Jerusalem in the Koran. as you know the Koran its in arbic, & in arabic Jerusalem have more than one word if you want to translate, however, (Jerusalem the city) it was there, "Al-Isra 1" as (المسجد الأقصى- Al-Aqsa Mosque) however (Al-Aqsa Mosque) was bulid after the the Koran, its Significance of the place and the city as a whole. as for the word (Jerusalem=القدس) it was mentioned more than once as a word (Literal translations of the word). you may check if that offer still stand so I would be a millionere, right now. & there was no a single mention for " mecca" in the Koran, that dose not mean it was not in another word Significance of the place and the city as a whole... Pipes offered the money for any actual reference to Jerusalem in Arabic. All Al-Aqsa Mosque means is the Far Mosque, and this is what appears in the Koran. Mohammad referred to it in a dream (Sura 17 I think) which many believed was a metaphor or a reference to a part of Heaven. Early Muslims actually called Jerusalem the Arabic equivalent of something like "The City of the Temple" (yes, a reference to the Temple Mount). Only latterly was Al Aqsa related to Jerusalem because by that stage the Umayyads had been defeated in Mecca and they built the grand Mosque in the 8th Century.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 10:29:44 AM)
Yes, on the East bank of the Jordon River where it belongs. For that matter, Jordon itself would be fine as it is 85% Arabs who call themselves Palestinian and currently being ruled by the 15% Hashemite minority population. Oh and let's not forget about 4/5ths of the Mandate of Palestine is located in the the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordon. So it is quite fare to say, at least in population, a state for so called Palestinian Arabs already exists.

DomKen -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 10:34:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: the Egyptians were a large empire with a predilection for building huge stone cities and temples in very arid environments, which helped preserve the writing, and covering them in writing. Are you suggesting that the area known as egypt today has the same climate as that same area of 4000+ years ago? The evidence strongly suggests that the area has had very low humidity since thing slike the Luxor temple was built and that since the Aswan Dam was completed the humidity level has risen and those hieroglyhs have dramatically faded. You will of course contest those facts so I'll simply direct you to contact the Oriental Institute at the University of Chicago and bother them with your clueless nonsense.

ashjor911 -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 10:51:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras I was referring to Palestine or Filistin as they called it, not Syria or Iraq. The city is more commonly known as Ramla. It wasn't very far from Jerusalem, and existed from the 7th Century. It faded as Jerusalem benefitted from an Ottoman building programme in the 16th century and the influx of Jews from the diaspora from the 13th Century onward. actually I was referring to (Belad Al Sham, or just Sham), which (syria lebanon, palestine,jordan & a large part of iraq) as you know back then there was no (Convention Sescbeko), it was (sham, land betwwen the 2 rivers "iraq now", & the land far away from the river (persia, india etc). Jerusalem in old arabic (بيت المقدس) you can ask google, it was not the capital of the region. the Umayyads moved the capital of the whole state from (al madeina " it even was not mecca" to Damadcus), after they were defeted by (Abbasids) they moved it from Damascus, to bagdad. quote: All Al-Aqsa Mosque means is the Far Mosque, and this is what appears in the Koran. Mohammad referred to it in a dream (Sura 17 I think) which many believed was a metaphor or a reference to a part of Heaven. It was first to Al-Aqsa Mosque, & after that it was to heven. Al-Aqsa Mosque really was not there, but there was the (ROCK), by near. from that rock, (He) was lefted to the heven. quote: Early Muslims actually called Jerusalem the Arabic equivalent of something like "The City of the Temple" (yes, a reference to the Temple Mount). as I said that is wrong it was called (beyt al makdess=بيت المقدس ) no reference to the temple mount at all, however the reference to the hollyness of the place.

ashjor911 -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 10:57:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy Yes, on the East bank of the Jordon River where it belongs. For that matter, Jordon itself would be fine as it is 85% Arabs who call themselves Palestinian and currently being ruled by the 15% Hashemite minority population. Oh and let's not forget about 4/5ths of the Mandate of Palestine is located in the the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordon. So it is quite fare to say, at least in population, a state for so called Palestinian Arabs already exists. you wanna know a damn funny thing, that the (Hashemite minority) originally from mecca, that make their kingdom, ............... just wrong, but the original people are ok with it !!??

Anaxagoras -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 11:49:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras I was referring to Palestine or Filistin as they called it, not Syria or Iraq. The city is more commonly known as Ramla. It wasn't very far from Jerusalem, and existed from the 7th Century. It faded as Jerusalem benefitted from an Ottoman building programme in the 16th century and the influx of Jews from the diaspora from the 13th Century onward. actually I was referring to (Belad Al Sham, or just Sham), which (syria lebanon, palestine,jordan & a large part of iraq) as you know back then there was no (Convention Sescbeko), it was (sham, land betwwen the 2 rivers "iraq now", & the land far away from the river (persia, india etc). You were talking about a broader place but the thread is about Palestine so thats what I referred to when mentioning the Islamic capital of the region. The Romans first used the name after the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 AD which Arabs adapted to Filistin so it was also a distinctive place. Ramla is still lived in today but is smaller that Jerusalem at this stage. quote: Jerusalem in old arabic (بيت المقدس) you can ask google, it was not the capital of the region. That is the correct term in old use which I referred to but it refers to the Jewish Temple Mount: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Jerusalem#Bayt_al-Maqdis quote: the Umayyads moved the capital of the whole state from (al madeina " it even was not mecca" to Damadcus), after they were defeted by (Abbasids) they moved it from Damascus, to bagdad. That is correct, the seat of the Umayyad Caliphate was Medina but their empire extended to Mecca. They were pushed out of Mecca which some historians believe motivated the effort to build the Dome of the rock and later the grand al Aqsa Mosque by developing the idea that the Dome and al Aqsa Mosque of the Koran had existed there. They only started to build the Dome in 688 - exactly fifty years after Umar took Jerusalem. quote: quote: All Al-Aqsa Mosque means is the Far Mosque, and this is what appears in the Koran. Mohammad referred to it in a dream (Sura 17 I think) which many believed was a metaphor or a reference to a part of Heaven. It was first to Al-Aqsa Mosque, & after that it was to heven. Al-Aqsa Mosque really was not there, but there was the (ROCK), by near. from that rock, (He) was lefted to the heven. Sure, the Dome of the Rock is where it is claimed he ascended to Heaven but this is part of the claim that it was located in Jerusalem which is not found in the Koran itself. quote: quote: Early Muslims actually called Jerusalem the Arabic equivalent of something like "The City of the Temple" (yes, a reference to the Temple Mount). as I said that is wrong it was called (beyt al makdess=بيت المقدس ) no reference to the temple mount at all, however the reference to the hollyness of the place. I posted you a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Jerusalem#Bayt_al-Maqdis which points to Beyt al makdess as having orgins in the Hebrew for the Mount.

thompsonx -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:12:12 PM)
I say this quote: The u.n. does nothing that the u.s. does not approve. You might want to read churchil's comments concerning the formation of the u.n. and his reasoning for the powerws given the security council. Easiest place to find them in one place would be his tome on "ww2. I am not convinced by his arguements as I am not convinced by yours but it would be interesting to see the "big boys" loose their grip on the big stick of the veto. And you say this quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub So you agree with me What in my statement would lead you to this assinine conclusion? I say quite clearly that I am not convinced by your arguement. Yet in the most puerile fashion you claim the opposite of what I say. I say this quote: Your sollution has been tried for more than 40 years with no success yet you keep pimping it. Why? And you say this quote: I ask you then.... how will making Palestine a member of the United Nations solve your, incorrect number of years…as usual, 40 year problem? More than 40 years my friend...damn use the search engine. Please try to disagree with what I say and not what you think you can snark at.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:20:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy Yes, on the East bank of the Jordon River where it belongs. For that matter, Jordon itself would be fine as it is 85% Arabs who call themselves Palestinian and currently being ruled by the 15% Hashemite minority population. Oh and let's not forget about 4/5ths of the Mandate of Palestine is located in the the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordon. So it is quite fare to say, at least in population, a state for so called Palestinian Arabs already exists. Ahhhh, somebody finally understands my first post in this thread. Follow it up with the Muslim Brotherhoods' Zahir Muhsein statement: The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan. Palestinians, to the extent you want to call them that, have a State and it is Jordan.

kdsub -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:20:58 PM)
quote: it would be interesting to see the "big boys" loose their grip on the big stick of the veto. I would call this agreement...or sort of...you know the answers to questions you give kinda sorta. quote: Please try to disagree with what I say and not what you think you can snark at Because there is an actual date...use it....now would you care to know the source of said problem?...you know the great organization you think can solve a problem it created. Would you also like to answer my question on when...and how the UN has every solved one damn dispute between nations... or did you forget...again. Butch

ashjor911 -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:32:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras You were talking about a broader place but the thread is about Palestine so thats what I referred to when mentioning the Islamic capital of the region. The Romans first used the name after the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 AD which Arabs adapted to Filistin so it was also a distinctive place. Ramla is still lived in today but is smaller that Jerusalem at this stage. yes, Ramla is still lived in today but is smaller that Jerusalem at this stage, but it was not the Islamic capital of the region. the name (Ramla) without THE means (the small round grain of sand). which is arabic but also its in the Modern arabic accent, the name almost 200 years old (as theModern arabic accent) , which means it has some other roman name, & it was not the Islamic capital. actually there was not any other Islamic capital other than (Madeina, Damascus, bagdad) the rest were just cities or towns, & they uesd to put some one incharge for some cities like (al-Basra, al-kofa (iraq) ) & I really dont remember that there was a (wally) on Ramla, PS: you know that there are some people who can change whats on (wikipedia.org) as you can see the ([edit]) before every thing. the (some people) I am referring to are powerfull, & got the media in the US, (Zionists) you dont think they would actually build (wikipedia.org) based on their only side of the story? for that I will ask you nicely for a more (reliable) proof for your claim, which is: quote: That is the correct term in old use which I referred to but it refers to the Jewish Temple Mount

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:36:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 . the (some people) I am referring to are powerfull, & got the media in the US, (Zionists) This says everything you need to know about ashjor's posts.

ashjor911 -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:40:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy The Palestinian people does not exist. you actully saying that I came from nothing??......... Dude? If as you said (The Palestinian people does not exist) then the Land itself not exist, example, if I not exist, that means my car do not exist, which means the Zionists do not exist.. which means that (king david) do not exist, not in the past even, which means there is no Judaism, Oh dear..... that means also that jesus did not exist either... Then What the Hell they are doing there?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:43:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy The Palestinian people does not exist. you actully saying that I came from nothing??......... Dude? Im not saying it, an executive commitee member of the Muslim Brotherhood said it. Who am I to disagree? Or is the Dutch media controlled by Zionists too? Save us some time. Outside of Arab publications, please let us know what media isnt controlled by Zionists.

ashjor911 -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:49:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Im not saying it, an executive commitee member of the Muslim Brotherhood said it. who happend to be crazy person, If Mr. obama is (according to your avatar, why sholud not Zahir Muhsein??? did you speak to him yourself? if no sell it to some one els....

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 12:59:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Im not saying it, an executive commitee member of the Muslim Brotherhood said it. who happend to be crazy person, If Mr. obama is (according to your avatar, why sholud not Zahir Muhsein??? did you speak to him yourself? if no sell it to some one els.... Alfred E Obama is not a crazy person, you apparently didnt hide Mad Magazine inside it while pretending to read the Koran. Its an American tradition (at least until it turns to Playboy). And since Mr. Muhsein's statement is totally consistent with the history of the region, your claims about his sanity will need some additional substantiation. I need to speak with him myself to believe what he said? Go speak to Mohammed yourself, and come back and report after you do.

ashjor911 -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 1:10:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy I need to speak with him myself to believe what he said? Go speak to Mohammed yourself, and come back and report after you do. can you bring him back from the dead? please? you can belive whatever you want, but dont make it my problem, rub false information, from some crazy person said. PS: you can belive him if you want, but its not true, I really dont care which, the thing is The Palestinian people come from Palestine, like the German come from Germany, oh no..... they come from Austria, no France Sell it to some 8 year old kid will ya

thompsonx -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 1:49:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: the Egyptians were a large empire with a predilection for building huge stone cities and temples in very arid environments, which helped preserve the writing, and covering them in writing. Are you suggesting that the area known as egypt today has the same climate as that same area of 4000+ years ago? The evidence strongly suggests that the area has had very low humidity since thing slike the Luxor temple was built and that since the Aswan Dam was completed the humidity level has risen and those hieroglyhs have dramatically faded. You will of course contest those facts so I'll simply direct you to contact the Oriental Institute at the University of Chicago and bother them with your clueless nonsense. Perhaps you should talk to the folks at the university of chicago and clue them in on their alleged clueless nonsense. The chart below covers a 94 year period...from well before the aswan dam was concieved to well after it was finished. Unless you consider 63% +5% -4% to be "very low humidty". I live in the mojave desert and today it is 12%. To call a question "clueless nonsenes" just because you were caught making shit up constitutes snark. Why don't you stick that snark up your ass and respond to questions with a little candor. http://www.virtualacademia.com/pdf/cli187_200.pdf Table (1): Normal values of meteorological elements and its corresponding anomalies during the three distinguished periods (1901-1930, 1931-1975 and 1989-1995) at Giza station. Anomalies Elements Normal 1901-95 1901-30 1931-75 1989-95 Minimum temperature (oC) 14.20 - 1.30 - 0.40 + 1.70 Mean temperature (oC) 20.86 - 0.98 + 0.12 + 0.84 Maximum temperature (oC) 28.41 - 0.13 + 0.08 + 0.05 Atmospheric turbidity factor 5.031 - 0.822 - 0.163 + 0.984 Sunshine duration (%) 78.67 + 1.08 - 0.42 - 0.83 Wind speed (kt) 4.47 + 0.23 + 0.13 - 0.37 Evaporation (mm per day) 5.93 - 0.06 + 0.70 - 0.64 Relative humidity (%) 62.67 + 5.33 - 3.67 - 1.67 Cloud amount (oktas) 1.90 + 0.30 + 0.10 - 0.40 Rainfall amount (mm) 19.90 + 0.34 + 0.12 - 0.47 Sunspots number 67.25 - 25.1 + 0.50 + 24.5 1 Normal values of turbidity factor (t) have been calculated using mean of t in the periods 1962-1963, 1975-1979 and 1989. 2 The anomaly of the period 1962-1963, 3 The anomaly of the period 1975-1979. 4 The anomaly of the year 1989.

Aneirin -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 1:57:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 . the (some people) I am referring to are powerfull, & got the media in the US, (Zionists) This says everything you need to know about ashjor's posts. What ? He believes that media and other influential bodies in the US are zionist ? Well as far as I know there are many influential bodies in America and the UK that are Jewish, the name is a giveaway. Now as to whether those people are zionists, that could be a personal matter to them and perhaps something that may not be advertised, so it stands there could be zionists in influential bodies, be that politics, finance and media, so Ashjor is not incorrect in his belief. I do believe the conservative member of parliament in the UK, Gerald Kaufman was a zionist, he admitted as much, but when he learned the truth about what the promised land was doing to a weaker people of a different ethnicity and religion, he changed his mind and gave a speech which did a lot for a great many people ; Gerald Kaufman on Israel Oh and as to wikipedia, anyone can edit it, it invites people who know more to edit it, so it stands wikipedia could be a useless resource to quote. But if you try to edit it, watch out for the bot that follows behind trying to delete what you have wrote, but if the persevere, you can make it stick, not me, but a pal correcting some local history information, what he wrote still stands today. So, beware wikipedia, it is editable by whoever wants to edit it, and there undoubtedly change peoples perceptions of what is true and what is not. Google scholar is usually a more reliable source of information, and that because it is peer reviewed.

DomKen -> RE: Do you support a Palestinian State? (9/20/2011 1:58:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: the Egyptians were a large empire with a predilection for building huge stone cities and temples in very arid environments, which helped preserve the writing, and covering them in writing. Are you suggesting that the area known as egypt today has the same climate as that same area of 4000+ years ago? The evidence strongly suggests that the area has had very low humidity since thing slike the Luxor temple was built and that since the Aswan Dam was completed the humidity level has risen and those hieroglyhs have dramatically faded. You will of course contest those facts so I'll simply direct you to contact the Oriental Institute at the University of Chicago and bother them with your clueless nonsense. Perhaps you should talk to the folks at the university of chicago and clue them in on their alleged clueless nonsense. The chart below covers a 94 year period...from well before the aswan dam was concieved to well after it was finished. Unless you consider 63% +5% -4% to be "very low humidty". I live in the mojave desert and today it is 12%. To call a question "clueless nonsenes" just because you were caught making shit up constitutes snark. Why don't you stick that snark up your ass and respond to questions with a little candor. http://www.virtualacademia.com/pdf/cli187_200.pdf Table (1): Normal values of meteorological elements and its corresponding anomalies during the three distinguished periods (1901-1930, 1931-1975 and 1989-1995) at Giza station. Anomalies Elements Normal 1901-95 1901-30 1931-75 1989-95 Minimum temperature (oC) 14.20 - 1.30 - 0.40 + 1.70 Mean temperature (oC) 20.86 - 0.98 + 0.12 + 0.84 Maximum temperature (oC) 28.41 - 0.13 + 0.08 + 0.05 Atmospheric turbidity factor 5.031 - 0.822 - 0.163 + 0.984 Sunshine duration (%) 78.67 + 1.08 - 0.42 - 0.83 Wind speed (kt) 4.47 + 0.23 + 0.13 - 0.37 Evaporation (mm per day) 5.93 - 0.06 + 0.70 - 0.64 Relative humidity (%) 62.67 + 5.33 - 3.67 - 1.67 Cloud amount (oktas) 1.90 + 0.30 + 0.10 - 0.40 Rainfall amount (mm) 19.90 + 0.34 + 0.12 - 0.47 Sunspots number 67.25 - 25.1 + 0.50 + 24.5 1 Normal values of turbidity factor (t) have been calculated using mean of t in the periods 1962-1963, 1975-1979 and 1989. 2 The anomaly of the period 1962-1963, 3 The anomaly of the period 1975-1979. 4 The anomaly of the year 1989. Dear clueless troll, if you don't know what relative humidity means and where Giza is and where the Aswan Dam is you should shut the fuck up. BTW your own link says increased humidity at Giza has caused damage to the Giza monuments. quote: In our case the increased relative humidity over Giza during recent years due to urbanization processes, as mentioned above, causes various harmful effects on its historical places and important monuments whereas the mineral composition of stone monuments has been changed due to hydration processes.

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