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RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 3:13:53 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

sorry - yours is simply not true



since its strictly a matter opinion there is no "true and not true"

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RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 3:21:25 PM   
blnymph


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true vs. false - to be checked by proof
in case you missed it - you were already proven having given a false statement
true - not true
no matter of any opinion
"strictly" yours = rubbish

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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 3:23:20 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:


To the contrary, there are no intrinsic human rights, only rights granted by local societies.


Really?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

You don't believe in the above anymore? Never did perhaps?



I never did, but it is largely irrelevant. If one agrees with that what they thought were god given rights should be considered rights, the fact that they were deluded regarding their source doesnt matter.

Some societies think that its their right to kill a virgin every so often to appease their god. Some societies think that cows deserve protection. Some societies send somebody to jail for raising fighting dogs, others eat dogs. If it works for them, so be it. We think the rights we recognize are superior (and the ones we dont we change), but that doesnt mean they actually are superior, nor that they hold some special relevance to the rest of the world/universe.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 3:24:46 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

in case you missed it - you were already proven having given a false statement


Either I missed it or you imagined it.

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 3:39:20 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Well, I went back and looked.  There WERE 34 witnesses for the prosecution.  Not eye witnesses, just witnesses.  There were nine eye witnesses.  You do know the difference, right sweetie?  Weren't you the one who was going on about reading comprehension?.  And really, you should not get your info from wiki.  It is leading you astray and making you sound like an idiot.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet




34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?


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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 4:05:47 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Pretty funny that the people who are sanctimoniously screaming 'read the case", aylee and endivus, so obviously did not read it themselves.

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Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 4:36:47 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

true vs. false - to be checked by proof
in case you missed it - you were already proven having given a false statement
true - not true
no matter of any opinion
"strictly" yours = rubbish


Since we're going there... I'll ask ... is that rack all yours or is there some cosmetic surgeon who is immensely proud of his work?



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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 4:45:33 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I never did, but it is largely irrelevant. If one agrees with that what they thought were god given rights should be considered rights, the fact that they were deluded regarding their source doesnt matter.


If you don't believe in the most fundamental of American principals, why on earth should anyone actually interested in this country take seriously anything you have to say?

ALL of your talking heads parrot this and in fact I believe a whole day of America's legislative time was wasted reading the aforementioned text as well as the constitution. If you don't believe it, what on earth makes you think we should believe or support your tea party dopes running things to a grinding halt saying "we were sent here to do this" when the fucks back home who sent em here don't believe the bullshit they so frequently use for ammo?



quote:

Some societies think that its their right to kill a virgin every so often to appease their god. Some societies think that cows deserve protection. Some societies send somebody to jail for raising fighting dogs, others eat dogs. If it works for them, so be it. We think the rights we recognize are superior (and the ones we dont we change), but that doesnt mean they actually are superior, nor that they hold some special relevance to the rest of the world/universe.


TOTAL PABLUM... whatever the fuck you want to cite about other lands... it's irrelevant in the context I put forth.


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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 5:00:02 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

If you don't believe in the most fundamental of American principals, why on earth should anyone actually interested in this country take seriously anything you have to say?



Dipping into the Samuel Adams? I very clearly said that I do believe in the PRINCIPLES, that I believe they were wrong about the SOURCE of them is irrelevant.

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Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 5:01:14 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I believe if you add the populations of the countries that support capital punishment in some form for some crimes…and compare them to countries who do not, you will find you are in an outright minority. To this do a search for polls in your and other European countries and add these percentages. You will find your way of thinking does not represent the vast world majority you claim.


Okay .... Somebody hand me my bullshit waders... While I will agree there's probably substantial numbers in America and even Iran who oppose abolition of the death penalty. Factoring in a people for whom there is no official data as to WHAT THEY THINK as in reference to the Chinese people. And since you're factoring in a poulation said to encompass up to 1/3 of the world's population... WHO'S PULLING WHO'S CHAIN HERE?????


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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 5:06:03 PM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

show these protests: browse european tv newsreels of yesterday
"at least would if they or their families ..." - I can speak for myself: as mentioned before some of my family had been murdered/executed by the Nazi regime - and I am AGAINST any form of death penalty

and if you doubt the whole world (except China and Iran executing in similar numbers than the US and a few more other countries where executions occur in lesser numbers ... no apologies for that: every execution is one too many in my view and a crime against fundamental human rights):
see the UN resolutions I mentioned earlier and the European human rights convention ...

or is the United Nations not enough "world" for you?



Ok...so that's your opinion and here's mine.  I LOVE the death penalty!  The problem with the death penalty is that it is not public enough.  People say that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime.  It would be if done properly, i.e. a hanging by the neck with the body swaying in the breeze from noon to six p.m.  But even performed improperly, it is the ultimate deterrent to the recidivism of the person put to death.

The death penalty is reserved for capital crimes usually where a victim or two has ended up dead.  As it stands, it is a weak vindication for the loved ones of those victims and society at large because people may sit on death row for a decade or more before they are put to death by lethal injection which is infinitely more merciful than what the perpetrator meted out to his/her victim.

If I had my way, I would expand the death penalty certain crimes.  I would have a "beyond all doubt" standard of proof that applied to the penalty phase to convert a jail sentence to a death sentence.  For example, back in the 80's some guy grabbed a 14 year old girl, raped her and cut off her hands and feet with an axe and left her to die in a ditch.  She survived.  The man committed the crimes of aggravated sexual assault and mayhem.  He got a number of years in jail.  If that crime had been committed while being captured on video, he would have been put to death under my legal reform.  The crimes I would extend the death penalty to with the penalty phase standard of "beyond all doubt" would be aggravated sexual assault, any crime involving mayhem and felony murder.  I would also extend it to the distribution of narcotics to anyone 13 years of age or younger where such distribution leads to the death of the minor.

You know, its funny.  People talk about how death penalty is an offense against God and our universal human rights.  And yet those same people support abortion.  These people espouse the benefits of socialism, liberalism, progressive politics and communism but they ignore the offense those political theories are to the concept of free will or liberty.

We live in a society of laws.  Yes, there are universal rights in my view which is based on biblical scripture.  I have read where Christ said "...render unto Caesar what is Caesar's."  I have not read where Christ said that a murderer should not be punished or where Christ chastised Rome for putting people to death for their crimes.  If there is some sort of biblical admonition against legal punishment for the most heinous offenses, I would like someone to direct me to it.

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 5:36:24 PM   
blnymph


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off topic

no need
a) to discuss it
b) for a cosmetic surgeon

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 5:38:55 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

b) for a cosmetic surgeon


That squares it away for me... btw It wasn't off topic since your truth or dare game with Willbe had commenced already... whether you recognized that or not


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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 6:00:40 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
death penalty as such is a shame beyond any justification


No.  Letting those who commit the most most heinous of crimes continue to live, is a shame beyond justification.

I think you are confusing "civilized" with "castrated cowardice."

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 6:17:10 PM   
blnymph


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I can not see any difference between execution and murder

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 6:28:09 PM   
TheHeretic


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Look in the direction of legal authority and rigorous process. 



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 6:29:37 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph
I can not see any difference between execution and murder

Murder attacks the population.
Execution removes such attackers from the gene pool.

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 6:33:51 PM   
blnymph


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with this argument any government was, is, and will be, justified to to practically anything they want ...

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 6:42:09 PM   
blnymph


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oh you are worried about the gene pool?
then castration would be more suitable ...
what if they already had produced offspring - remove them from the gene pool too?

sorry to spoil your idea - there is no murder gene

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 6:50:18 PM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

with this argument any government was, is, and will be, justified to to practically anything they want ...


How do you figure?  How is it that imposing the ultimate punishment for the ultimate criminal offenses somehow inures the government with justification to do anything?   Where do you get that??  I take it by your views that you are just as steadfast against abortion, the murder of innocent life, as you are capital punishment which is the execution of the most savage, criminal life.  Right?

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Profile   Post #: 160
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