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RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:03:00 PM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		show these protests: browse european tv newsreels of yesterday
"at least would if they or their families ..." - I can speak for myself: as mentioned before some of my family had been murdered/executed by the Nazi regime - and I am AGAINST any form of death penalty

and if you doubt the whole world (except China and Iran executing in similar numbers than the US and a few more other countries where executions occur in lesser numbers ... no apologies for that: every execution is one too many in my view and a crime against fundamental human rights):
see the UN resolutions I mentioned earlier and the European human rights convention ...

or is the United Nations not enough "world" for you?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:10:17 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


to disagree with you finally: human rights are universal, not an internal affair


To the contrary, there are no intrinsic human rights, only rights granted by local societies.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:15:09 PM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		then you should read the US constitution, the French declaration of human rights, the UN charter ...

maybe your view of the world is a bit too "local" ...


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:15:37 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Only 9 witnesses testified.  The other 25 are just hearsay (and I haven't even seen anything that said there were 34 witnesses, so please provide your source for that)  7 have recanted, to various degrees.  Why not a retrial, then? 
If we are going to impose the DP(which I have not previously opposed) the process HAS TO BE FAIR.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL:


34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:24:18 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

then you should read the US constitution, the French declaration of human rights, the UN charter ...

maybe your view of the world is a bit too "local" ...




No, mine is reality based.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:25:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Only 9 witnesses testified.  The other 25 are just hearsay (and I haven't even seen anything that said there were 34 witnesses, so please provide your source for that)  7 have recanted, to various degrees.  Why not a retrial, then? 
If we are going to impose the DP(which I have not previously opposed) the process HAS TO BE FAIR.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL:


34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?



There was no retrial because a thorough analysis of the "recantations" determined that they didnt materially diminish the States case.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:34:57 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I believe if you add the populations of the countries that support capital punishment in some form for some crimes…and compare them to countries who do not, you will find you are in an outright minority. To this do a search for polls in your and other European countries and add these percentages. You will find your way of thinking does not represent the vast world majority you claim.

I am sorry for your families loss but how should this make a difference in this discussion?

PS there is a map online that list countries by their laws... find it...again your whole world claim is not factual.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/22/2011 1:41:00 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:50:06 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Only 9 witnesses testified.  The other 25 are just hearsay (and I haven't even seen anything that said there were 34 witnesses, so please provide your source for that)  7 have recanted, to various degrees.  Why not a retrial, then? 
If we are going to impose the DP(which I have not previously opposed) the process HAS TO BE FAIR.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL:


34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?



You should read about the trial. This is the case: Georgia v. Troy Anthony Davis

Judge Moore was the District Court Judge who ruled on the recants.

Have you even LOOKED at wiki? If you check at the bottom they often have links you can look at for the actual information sources.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:52:30 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		Somewhere the real killer of police officer Mark MacPhail is smiling, knowing that he or she will never have to worry about being caught or tried - because even if evidence is found to arrest and convict the real killer of police officer Mark MacPhail, no one in authority in the state of Georgia will do so. They won't want to be publically proven wrong about Troy Davis' "guilt".

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:52:33 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Only 9 witnesses testified.  The other 25 are just hearsay (and I haven't even seen anything that said there were 34 witnesses, so please provide your source for that)  7 have recanted, to various degrees.  Why not a retrial, then? 
If we are going to impose the DP(which I have not previously opposed) the process HAS TO BE FAIR.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL:


34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?



There was no retrial because a thorough analysis of the "recantations" determined that they didnt materially diminish the States case.


But she read all about a case from 22 years ago in the newspaper! And their judgement is ALWAYS fair and balanced and correct. And they always have ALL of the information! Just look at DSK and Casey Anthony. The media KNOWS who is innocent and who isn't. Juries are just silly.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:57:26 PM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		sorry - yours is simply not true

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 1:57:48 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

show these protests: browse european tv newsreels of yesterday
"at least would if they or their families ..." - I can speak for myself: as mentioned before some of my family had been murdered/executed by the Nazi regime - and I am AGAINST any form of death penalty

and if you doubt the whole world (except China and Iran executing in similar numbers than the US and a few more other countries where executions occur in lesser numbers ... no apologies for that: every execution is one too many in my view and a crime against fundamental human rights):
see the UN resolutions I mentioned earlier and the European human rights convention ...

or is the United Nations not enough "world" for you?


You must always remember - those who believe in "Amerian Exceptionalism" will just hold on to their beliefs all the stronger if any non-American tells them they are wrong.


_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:12:11 PM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		I seriously doubt your "vast majority" ... despite the facts that after any spectacular crime some ragpaper tabloid publishes some poll about how many support child molesters should be disemboweled or whatever - luckily these polls are as worthless as the paper they are published on ...

yes there are some interesting maps on the internet - easiest to find in wikipedia - and I agree that there still are (too many) countries still having some capital punishment laws - but many of them have suspended death penalty after the 2004 and 2007 UN resolutions ... leaving only a few still executing

as I posted on another board already there are only 3 countries left executing prisoners in numbers over 10 (any is one too many as I said ...) per year - China, Iran and ...

are you really proud of the company?

and again: death penalty is a violation of human rights



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:13:41 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Wiki?  No, I read the appellate decisions, which is how I read "about the trial.".  I have access at my office.  Why would I look them up on Wiki, instead of looking at the official document?.  Maybe you shouldn't get your info from "wiki".  Just a suggestion.
9 witnesses testified.  Not 34. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Only 9 witnesses testified.  The other 25 are just hearsay (and I haven't even seen anything that said there were 34 witnesses, so please provide your source for that)  7 have recanted, to various degrees.  Why not a retrial, then? 
If we are going to impose the DP(which I have not previously opposed) the process HAS TO BE FAIR.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL:


34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?



You should read about the trial. This is the case: Georgia v. Troy Anthony Davis

Judge Moore was the District Court Judge who ruled on the recants.

Have you even LOOKED at wiki? If you check at the bottom they often have links you can look at for the actual information sources.


< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 9/22/2011 2:15:36 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:18:14 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Ya, your reading skills are great.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Wiki?  No, I read the appellate decisions, which is how I read "about the trial.".  I have access at my office.  Why would I look them up on Wiki, instead of looking at the official document?.  Maybe you shouldn't get your info from "wiki".  Just a suggestion.
9 witnesses testified.  Not 34. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Only 9 witnesses testified.  The other 25 are just hearsay (and I haven't even seen anything that said there were 34 witnesses, so please provide your source for that)  7 have recanted, to various degrees.  Why not a retrial, then? 
If we are going to impose the DP(which I have not previously opposed) the process HAS TO BE FAIR.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL:


34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?



You should read about the trial. This is the case: Georgia v. Troy Anthony Davis

Judge Moore was the District Court Judge who ruled on the recants.

Have you even LOOKED at wiki? If you check at the bottom they often have links you can look at for the actual information sources.




_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:24:53 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:


To the contrary, there are no intrinsic human rights, only rights granted by local societies.


Really?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

You don't believe in the above anymore? Never did perhaps?



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:25:16 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Or I can just look it up on Westlaw.
In any case, only 9 testified.  Surely we have not reached a point where we are convicting and executing people, based on witnesses who didn't even testify.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Ya, your reading skills are great.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Wiki?  No, I read the appellate decisions, which is how I read "about the trial.".  I have access at my office.  Why would I look them up on Wiki, instead of looking at the official document?.  Maybe you shouldn't get your info from "wiki".  Just a suggestion.
9 witnesses testified.  Not 34. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Only 9 witnesses testified.  The other 25 are just hearsay (and I haven't even seen anything that said there were 34 witnesses, so please provide your source for that)  7 have recanted, to various degrees.  Why not a retrial, then? 
If we are going to impose the DP(which I have not previously opposed) the process HAS TO BE FAIR.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL:


34 eyewitnesses. Including 3 airmen. Where was the biased and tainted evidence?



You should read about the trial. This is the case: Georgia v. Troy Anthony Davis

Judge Moore was the District Court Judge who ruled on the recants.

Have you even LOOKED at wiki? If you check at the bottom they often have links you can look at for the actual information sources.





< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 9/22/2011 2:43:32 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:27:41 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

sorry - yours is simply not true


He makes a business of it....



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:35:23 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I personally would not dare to make any connection between Nazi concentration camps and American death rows


At the end of the day, there are dead people to bury. But I  understand your reluctance to connect the two. And based on the very same reasoning I had for kind of indicating the rest of the world should stand down (and trust me ... I have FAR DEEPER reasons than this one issue for wanting that now), for those very same reasons, I understand the separation this far in time from the issue it's your country's/culture's issue to think of and debate.
   Don't get me wrong. I understand I'm not reasoning with someone who isn't presenting an intelligent rebuttal. That's hardly what I think.

quote:

In reply to you and the subsequent post - yes it took time to get death penalty abolished - and yes there were many many good reasons to abolish it


EXACTLY... it's a thing that I am hopeful and pretty confident will happen... but as I said, will come from within.



_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Troy Davis is now dead... - 9/22/2011 2:43:09 PM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		Dear SternSkipper
I gladly join you in your hope and confidence ... and keep my impatience alive that it might happen before the next scheduled execution

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 140
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