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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:23:14 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		in my Grandfathers case, he trusted his children to abide by the terms of the will/trust. one of them did not. it became too costly to fight it... so the other two siblings (and their progeny) got royally screwed.




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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:26:32 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		But it is about her, she is the one you want to sign the contract, not your family. And my question remains valid either way, if you trust your family not to leave her destitute, then why do you need a contract stating what she gets?

It is clearly and absolutely a question of trust, or to be more precise a lack of trust. The fact that you need a legally binding contract dictating the terms means that you do not believe the people involved to comply with your wishes otherwise. In other words, you do not trust them to do it, so you need a contract to insure they will.

And, who earned the assets is completely irrelevant, it has no bearing on the issue whatsoever.

(in reply to CeriseNin)
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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:27:42 PM   
CeriseNin


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Joined: 4/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

There is a way around that, have your father's assets go into a trust which gives income to you during your lifetime and then goes to his grandchildren at your death. Usually one third will be given immediately and the two thirds held in trust. Trustee has the right to go into the principal if you need it for medical reasons. Bills paid directly.




That isn't up to me.

< Message edited by CeriseNin -- 9/25/2011 2:28:10 PM >

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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:35:32 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Maybe you can talk to your dad.  My parents and i speak about how they are setting up their estate and we all talk about what will be easiest and better for the family etc.  They have trusts set up as DESfip discribed, wherein the assets belong to the trust and the trust has beneficiaries of same.  In the trusts they have, the spouses aren't even trustees if their children become beneificiaries due to the deal of me or my brother.  And if one of us had died without issue, the assets revert back to the trust and the kids of the living sibling become the beneficiaries but they cannot collect until they are 25, unless its to be used for college.

Very complicated lol but it makes it easier on all of us.


You may want to mention your dad.  Maybe it hasn't occured to him.  All in all, it's not about your wife as she will benefit from your assets and any you have access too indirectly because you do, while she is married to you.   I agree, if you made a promise to your parent to keep the assets in the family, then protecting same is something you should do.  Any woman you wish to marry would, to me, want to join you in that protection and not make it all about her not having something in the event of a divorce.

angel

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(in reply to CeriseNin)
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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:35:56 PM   
CeriseNin


Posts: 286
Joined: 4/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

But it is about her, she is the one you want to sign the contract, not your family. And my question remains valid either way, if you trust your family not to leave her destitute, then why do you need a contract stating what she gets?

It is clearly and absolutely a question of trust, or to be more precise a lack of trust. The fact that you need a legally binding contract dictating the terms means that you do not believe the people involved to comply with your wishes otherwise. In other words, you do not trust them to do it, so you need a contract to insure they will.

And, who earned the assets is completely irrelevant, it has no bearing on the issue whatsoever.


Despite your opinion, it's nothing whatsoever to do with trust or lack of.

As to your last point. For you it doesn't matter who earned the assets and has nothing to do with the issue, but luckily, I don't have to care about that.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:40:37 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

But it is about her, she is the one you want to sign the contract, not your family. And my question remains valid either way, if you trust your family not to leave her destitute, then why do you need a contract stating what she gets?

It is clearly and absolutely a question of trust, or to be more precise a lack of trust. The fact that you need a legally binding contract dictating the terms means that you do not believe the people involved to comply with your wishes otherwise. In other words, you do not trust them to do it, so you need a contract to insure they will.

And, who earned the assets is completely irrelevant, it has no bearing on the issue whatsoever.



Heather, you are writing from the view point of living happily ever after. If there were a guarantee of that I would agree that there is no need for the prenup. Sadly that isn't always the case so I understand wanting to protect what her family has built up. Please before you answer think about that for a moment. She isn't even talking about personal assets just the ones that her family built up.


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(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:42:04 PM   
CeriseNin


Posts: 286
Joined: 4/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Maybe you can talk to your dad.  My parents and i speak about how they are setting up their estate and we all talk about what will be easiest and better for the family etc.  They have trusts set up as DESfip discribed, wherein the assets belong to the trust and the trust has beneficiaries of same.  In the trusts they have, the spouses aren't even trustees if their children become beneificiaries due to the deal of me or my brother.  And if one of us had died without issue, the assets revert back to the trust and the kids of the living sibling become the beneficiaries but they cannot collect until they are 25, unless its to be used for college.

Very complicated lol but it makes it easier on all of us.


You may want to mention your dad.  Maybe it hasn't occured to him.  All in all, it's not about your wife as she will benefit from your assets and any you have access too indirectly because you do, while she is married to you.   I agree, if you made a promise to your parent to keep the assets in the family, then protecting same is something you should do.  Any woman you wish to marry would, to me, want to join you in that protection and not make it all about her not having something in the event of a divorce.

angel

My dad is in poor health, and my brothers have already scheduled a sort of round table about it that I'll be involved in. The situation is precarious at the moment, due to my dad's health issues. Yes, I did promise to keep the assets in the family, gave my word that I'd not "roll the dice" with what he worked his lifetime to build.

This thread has been enlightening and interesting to see the differing opinions.

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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:43:33 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		okay i have a question -- when these things transfer to kids born to a marriage -- those kids are considered "in the family" but the spouse is not? 

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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:44:04 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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From: The dog house
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quote:

Despite your opinion, it's nothing whatsoever to do with trust or lack of.
Then explain why, if you trust everybody involved to do the right thing, you feel the need for a legally binding contract. The only reason I can see for that is because you aren't sure that they will do the right thing, and you want to make sure they have to.

(in reply to CeriseNin)
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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:45:51 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Good.  I am sorry about your dad's health.  But hopefully with you all working together, you can all figure out the best way to protect his assets that is easy for you all to deal with and gives him the peace of mind that it's protected.

angel

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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:53:14 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

okay i have a question -- when these things transfer to kids born to a marriage -- those kids are considered "in the family" but the spouse is not? 

not to speak or answer for anyone else but... a spouse can leave the family, kids can not..

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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:54:21 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		Well yes of course i am writing from the view of living happily ever after, we are talking about marriage, and to me, that is the whole point of marriage.And I don't care about guarantees, I don't need them or want them, I will go into a marriage with the intention of it lasting, and I will conduct myself on that ssumptioon. If I have doubts as to if it will, then I won't marry. That is all there is to it.

And it makes no difference whatsoever who built up the assets. It's simply not relevant either to how I would view being asked to sign an agreement, or to the question of trust or lack thereof. It doesn't make the slightest difference to either question. It has as much relevance as what brand of nail polish the lady down the street uses. 

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:54:32 PM   
CeriseNin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

okay i have a question -- when these things transfer to kids born to a marriage -- those kids are considered "in the family" but the spouse is not? 

Spouses aren't blood related.

I know it seems harsh, but the "fear" is that a spouse will decide to divorce and a legal nightmare will happen.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:56:21 PM   
CeriseNin


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Joined: 4/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Good.  I am sorry about your dad's health.  But hopefully with you all working together, you can all figure out the best way to protect his assets that is easy for you all to deal with and gives him the peace of mind that it's protected.

angel

Yes, and hopefully there won't be any prenup arguments, lol.

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Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:56:58 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

okay i have a question -- when these things transfer to kids born to a marriage -- those kids are considered "in the family" but the spouse is not? 


I think it's a question of blood relatives but don't quote me on it.


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(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:58:49 PM   
CeriseNin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

okay i have a question -- when these things transfer to kids born to a marriage -- those kids are considered "in the family" but the spouse is not? 


I think it's a question of blood relatives but don't quote me on it.


Yes. Exactly it.

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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:59:28 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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From: The dog house
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quote:

I know it seems harsh, but the "fear" is that a spouse will decide to divorce and a legal nightmare will happen.
You "fear" she will do something yet it isn't about her or a question of not trusting her.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 2:59:37 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		kids most certainly can. =p even if they're blood, they can take something, cut people off, marry some dude in milan and never be heard from again.
to me it's like "i may have married you, but youre not my family." which is... offputting.


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RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 3:00:53 PM   
CeriseNin


Posts: 286
Joined: 4/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

I know it seems harsh, but the "fear" is that a spouse will decide to divorce and a legal nightmare will happen.
You "fear" she will do something yet it isn't about her or a question of not trusting her.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


No. My father's fear, hence my promise to him.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Prenups - 9/25/2011 3:01:48 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		It sort of defeats the whole purpose of marrying. "Share my life, but not all of it."

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 260
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