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RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 11:39:21 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Around here, most farm wives work. Many are teachers or nurses. It keeps the farm solvent and provides health insurance.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 11:48:10 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

To derail a derail......

Do you (whomever you are and whatever your part of the power exchange/service dynamic) feel that having a person entirely devoted to caring for.....home, personal affairs, whatever... is worth the expense of properly providing for that person.

If yes, why and how? If no, why and how?


If taking care of their personal affairs involved having and raising their kids, then yes, i would consider it worth the expense. If not, then i probably wouldn't. It depends on what being "entirely devoted to caring for home, personal affairs, whatever..." means, EXACTLY. Does it mean, doing a bit of housework, or much more.

pam

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 12:11:22 PM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		Mea culpa. i thought You were referring to that. i misconstrued my apologies and yes i agree 100% people with illnesses of any description require medical insurance cover
kevin

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 3:13:50 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Ya, without childcare or helping with a business, it's no where near a full time job.

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 3:59:01 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

My objection is "Hundreds of millions of husbands the world over" that is not backed by stats.
I have not statistics but in my country and surrounding countries (Balkan area), the wife staying home is indeed the normal way of things. It is thus as well in Malta and also as well through most of the Middle East and also further east. Singapore is an exception to this to a large degree. This is, of course, a conclusion from simple observation without any research, as it is an issue of little import.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 4:53:29 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Regarding the 'millions making it work'.

I know quite a few couples/families, where only the adult male works. The financial situation of those family units are not one that I would want to put myself into. Most have not been able to purchase a home and are forced to rent. Usually in a less than desirable environment. Most drive less than safe, vehicles. Several push the legal limits by not maintaining required insurance of vehicles because they cannot afford it. None will be able to send a child to college unless that child gets scholarships and lots of student loans. Most have had less than stellar health care over the years (lack of good dental care, etc). All live, paycheck to paycheck, one crisis away from a major financial catastrophe.

Certainly there are many people that do it. Certainly there are many people that are financially able to do it well, as a few here have written about. My personal experience is that it is often a life on the edge, in many ways. It comes down to what risk we are each comfortable with. Because I am financially conservative and not comfortable with a lot of big risk (been there done that, don't ever want to be there again) my choices will be influenced by that. Others, that either do not care, OR, are comfortable with risk........will have a different method of measuring what choices to make. And others are fortunate to have the resources to make it work with very little risk.



Is there a cultural reason or for that matter just a belief that the male should be the bread earner? Or did it just work out that way?


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(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 9:22:20 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

quote:

Having a slave is a privilege afforded to those who have the will and have demonstrated the ability to do well enough to afford one.
This is as it should be. One who would claim a slave as owned yet refuse the responsibility for said slave is but playing Let Us Pretend.

Be at peace
Aneka

  Exactly.  If someone uses the word 'slave' to describe a partner and isn't paying for everything, then they're engaging in a farce, not a power exchange.


_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 9:41:57 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline 		I had a few minutes this evening to do a cost vs benefit comparison as applies to my household.

Currently 5 people contribute to the wants and needs of this household: 2 long-term male partners, one occasional domestic sub, one paid gardener and one paid housekeeper. None of them live here.

Fixed expenses of the household:
Mortgage
Taxes
Property insurance.
Insurance/maintenance/repairs for 3 vehicles.
Upkeep that would not vary with another individual living here:
$90 per month for the general housekeeper. 5 hours a month which is all this small house needs.
$20 per month for the gardener.
Absolutely f*cking priceless:Privacy, without somebody underfoot who wants to be 'taken up and smacked, and toilet trained by a Mommy-Domme'.
The gentlemen who serve here enjoy the same grown-up lifestyle proclivities I do.

Additional household expenses to provide for live-in sub:
-$100 increased utilities usage.
-$350+ per month grocery allowance for a proper, healthy diet since feeding someone just 'bread' as he likes to call sustenance would cause him to sicken and die.
-$1000 per month health insurance/medically related expenses. Read it and weep, but that's life in the good ol' US of A.
-$90 per month to add a responsible, mature person with a clean driving record to my car insurance so he can legally do the expected duty.
-Somebody underfoot all the time who expects to be 'taken up and smacked, and toilet trained by a Mommy-Domme': No effing amount of money would justify me tolerating this (see last line of 'fixed expenses' above). Sorry kev, that counts you out.


Now, for the sake of this example let's give all the established paid and unpaid Lair household contributors the heave-ho. Add a live-in-sub who would need to have the wherewithal to replace the contributions of 5 separate people (and somehow provide a seaworthy 46' sailboat.) That's not likely but let's pretend there is someone who could/would do all that as listed in the quote below. He would cost me an extra $1390 per month. Since that's about my actual income per month these days I would be homeless, without medical insurance or vehicles of any kind, and starving to boot...just so some diaper-boy could fry me up a banger once in awhile (ooops, forgot...no food, no stove to cook on, and without a roof over either of our heads.)

As always YMMV, but for me it's still a resounding NOPE!


quote:

The way it works at the Lair is: Cabin Boy owns, lives on, maintains and handles the heavy lifting on the boat in port and underway. He does the cooking and massage-on-request at sea, the serious repair jobs like plumbing, electrical and mechanical fixes on my house and the vehicles. S does the oil changes on the daily driver, provides 'spouse-like' backup where medical and practical daily matters are concerned and will inherit the kittehs should I pass before they do. He is also my long-time 'partner-in-crime' when it comes to music, dancing, culture, fine dining, long-distance driving and family-related matters. S has his own house and long ago we vowed to keep it that way. I like my space.

Nobody really enjoys the minimal yard work so I do it myself or hire a gardener when it needs something. I have a wonderful Guatemalan housekeeper who comes twice a month, which financially 'forces' me to keep my clutter in check. Since there are so many...ummm...'things' in the bedroom that might frighten her, I have a fastidious, highly organized and thorough domestic sub who occasionally tackles the carnage in that area, weeds and sweeps the cat-house, and bakes or cooks when I need something nice to take to a potluck. He also has his own place and occasionally serves other dominants.

All of us provide for our own financial needs. The combination has been working well for a few years now; in S and Cabin Boy's case more than a decade. Do I want any of the boys living here (contributing financially or not)? Nope. With this arrangement they get me at my best: happy, relaxed, content, affectionate and in doses that mesh well with their lives. I get them at their best doing what they feel strong, fulfilled and happy doing without feeling put-upon.





(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 9:43:57 PM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1152
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		Huh?

Strange thinking when you consider that the whole purpose of a non-consensual slave was to work and make money for the owner.

It’s only in kink related consensual slavery that an owner would ever consider not having a slave work to provide extra money for them. Everywhere else that is a slave’s primary function.

Cheryl


_____________________________

Sometimes just because it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, doesn’t mean it is a duck, it could instead be a plastic replica that leads ducks to their ruin.

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/26/2011 9:44:29 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I do think the fantasy is fabulous. Lord knows I would love to come home from work, take care of my animals (because that is MY thing) and then do whatever the hell I wanted on evenings and weekends.

But yeah, I am a big picture kinda person. I demand that I prepare as best I can for worst case scenarios. Illness, forced retirement, just everything. I know that while I could feed, clothe, and house another person......I cannot afford a health insurance policy for them, I cannot afford to insure another driver with....? driving record. I cannot afford to create another nest egg/retirement plan.

And, I know that caring for me and mine is NOT a full time position. There is only so much cleaning this cute little house on the hill needs. I suppose I could demand they trim 3 acres of lawn with scissors or shovel the lane with a soup spoon but that really isn't my kink.


No. I work full time and I cook, clean, and do all the shopping etc. and I still pay my share of the bills, it might not be an equal amount since he makes more than me, but I also work for him so it's equitable in my eyes. I also take care of all the animals and deal with all of his clients, if anything I feel like I do more than my share lately because he has been into a fucking victim mentality lately, and a poor pitiful me thing. I am so sick of it. 

I don't think that domestic duties in any way negate having to earn an income.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 4:01:33 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Regarding the 'millions making it work'.

I know quite a few couples/families, where only the adult male works.


Is there a cultural reason or for that matter just a belief that the male should be the bread earner? Or did it just work out that way?



I snipped to just address the part that I believe you were asking about. If I am wrong, please correct me.

I don't think it is any one reason, other than the men all had higher earning potential. Usually children are involved. Child care is so expensive that there is a point where the scales tip in favour of the lesser earning partner staying home.

My sister married into a quasi Mennonite clan and that mindset did, I believe, had a huge effect on her and the choice to not work and home school her boys.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 4:03:24 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

Huh?

Strange thinking when you consider that the whole purpose of a non-consensual slave was to work and make money for the owner.

It’s only in kink related consensual slavery that an owner would ever consider not having a slave work to provide extra money for them. Everywhere else that is a slave’s primary function.

Cheryl



Cheryl this is my mindset as well but it seems that many 'dominant' men have discovered a way to serve a woman and cloak it in ownership with a lot of romantic ideals.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 4:05:40 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88



No. I work full time and I cook, clean, and do all the shopping etc. and I still pay my share of the bills, it might not be an equal amount since he makes more than me, but I also work for him so it's equitable in my eyes. I also take care of all the animals and deal with all of his clients, if anything I feel like I do more than my share lately because he has been into a fucking victim mentality lately, and a poor pitiful me thing. I am so sick of it. 

I don't think that domestic duties in any way negate having to earn an income.



Aynne, I am sorry you are going through a difficult time.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 8:10:36 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		So where do I find one of these people?

Room and board seems like an adequate exchange for housework, there's not so much to do that a live housekeeper/au pair couldn't work part time or even full time if they needed perks, I'm not that into financial domination or micromanaging peoples careers, lots of people have lives outside the bedroom.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 7:43:44 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		I'll jump into the mix here.
There are several websites out there devoted to houseboys/bois.  Most of the "reputable" websites are pretty clear from the start, that each living situation is different and must be carefully negotiated, but the goal of the sites: match the houseboy with the "employer."  Arrangement vary--most are live-in.  Some offer free room for services, others offer room & board, and a few offer room, board & a stipend.  

Some involve sex, many don't.  Some involve money, some don't.  I have not once heard of health benefits being offered, and in some arrangements (I know of a only one or two boys who connected with their Households online), the boy was expected/encouraged to hold a job outside the home (part-time or otherwise) to provide them with benefits and/or spending money when it was not provided.

My long-winded point is that it isn't all or nothing--my current Sir was seeking a live-in sub/slave and would offer a room (reduced rent or who knows, poss. even free for the right person) in exchange for regular cleaning & errand services, and that person was expected to work a job full or part time, but the Household obligations must be met on their own time.  If I were younger, I'd totally go for a live-in position again and work part-time for benefits.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 9:30:29 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

Huh?

Strange thinking when you consider that the whole purpose of a non-consensual slave was to work and make money for the owner.

It’s only in kink related consensual slavery that an owner would ever consider not having a slave work to provide extra money for them. Everywhere else that is a slave’s primary function.

Cheryl

  That's because consensual slavery isn't and slaves were basically work units which you could mistreat and beat to death if so inclined.  This fundamental ability to exploit the living shit out of slave labour was the underpinning of the South's whining that abolition would kill their economy.

Most near-sane slaves in this lifestyle are generally looking for an arrangement which fulfills some of their needs - even if that need is serving the needs of someone else.  However nobody sane is going to want to enter into an arrangement in which they're a work unit to be exploited at will with absolutely nothing in return.

Most recognise TPE as an exchange of power for responsibility - specifically including the responsibility for ensuring the primary needs of the slave are also met.  The damaged individuals who think their own needs are irrelevant don't really make for much of a counter-argument, although it does raise the spectre of just how easily this lifestyle attracts dysfunction.


_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 9:32:08 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
No. I work full time and I cook, clean, and do all the shopping etc. and I still pay my share of the bills, it might not be an equal amount since he makes more than me, but I also work for him so it's equitable in my eyes. I also take care of all the animals and deal with all of his clients, if anything I feel like I do more than my share lately because he has been into a fucking victim mentality lately, and a poor pitiful me thing. I am so sick of it.
  I'm very sorry to hear that - your arrangement is clearly on borrowed time.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 11:41:57 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88



No. I work full time and I cook, clean, and do all the shopping etc. and I still pay my share of the bills, it might not be an equal amount since he makes more than me, but I also work for him so it's equitable in my eyes. I also take care of all the animals and deal with all of his clients, if anything I feel like I do more than my share lately because he has been into a fucking victim mentality lately, and a poor pitiful me thing. I am so sick of it. 

I don't think that domestic duties in any way negate having to earn an income.



Aynne, I am sorry you are going through a difficult time.


Thanks LaT, it is difficult to say the least, I appreciate that. .


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/27/2011 11:43:44 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
No. I work full time and I cook, clean, and do all the shopping etc. and I still pay my share of the bills, it might not be an equal amount since he makes more than me, but I also work for him so it's equitable in my eyes. I also take care of all the animals and deal with all of his clients, if anything I feel like I do more than my share lately because he has been into a fucking victim mentality lately, and a poor pitiful me thing. I am so sick of it.
  I'm very sorry to hear that - your arrangement is clearly on borrowed time.


I didn't want to admit that but I fear it is so, my frustration level is nearing max capacity. Thanks Awareness.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Is doing all household tasks worth a person's livin... - 9/28/2011 2:04:58 AM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
No. I work full time and I cook, clean, and do all the shopping etc. and I still pay my share of the bills, it might not be an equal amount since he makes more than me, but I also work for him so it's equitable in my eyes. I also take care of all the animals and deal with all of his clients, if anything I feel like I do more than my share lately because he has been into a fucking victim mentality lately, and a poor pitiful me thing. I am so sick of it.
  I'm very sorry to hear that - your arrangement is clearly on borrowed time.


I didn't want to admit that but I fear it is so, my frustration level is nearing max capacity. Thanks Awareness.

  A sub cannot tolerate a Dom without strength.  And a victim mentality is the antithesis of this.

I suspect this will be a hard time for you  - and for him.  Unfortunately, like it or not, pain is the most effective teacher of us all.  His challenge will be to learn from this and strengthen his own resolve.  Yours will be to not blame yourself for feeling the way you do.  I am genuinely sorry to hear this, but such things are a part of life.  You will both survive and you both have the capacity to prosper.  I wish you luck.


_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 120
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