RE: Can we be "good" without god?

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hangemhigh1953 -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (9/30/2011 6:28:49 PM)
Morality is entirely a man-made construct. If Christians truly got all their morals from the bible, you'd see something akin to Sharia law, with people being stoned to death for minor infractions, and everyone would be a horrible bigot. But luckily people pick and choose which morals they follow (likely due to their inherent human morality) and we don't see that.

tazzygirl -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 2:52:16 AM)
Stoning? I do believe it was said.. he who is without sin may cast the first stone. I also do believe I am not entitled to cast that first stone. Are you?

DarkSteven -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 6:35:05 AM)
I don't think we can even BE without G_d. I think of G_d as a presence that created our world. If you choose to believe that He's a sentient being or simply a powerful force of nature, there's no denying that He (or it or She if you prefer) exists. That said, being good is an individual decision. I've known atheists who I considered good people, as well as believers who were not.

MissImmortalPain -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 9:22:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet So, why do people strive to do the right thing. Sadly a lot don't. I would add who gets to decide what is the right thing and what isn't but I already had the Orwell conversation and it was pointless. Can human kind be "good" without "god" I would say yes many can. But if the idea of "god" keeps a few of those who are not so "good" in line, than more power to it. For me personally. I live by something my mother told me as a child(back story her parents were very abusive) She decided very early on that if she ever had children she would not do to them what they did to her. Do you get what I'm leading toward. I have felt pain I don't want anyone else to feel so I try to be "good"

Maestrotigre -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 9:27:28 AM)
I saw this title of this post and I thought to myself - "I hope no one fed the troll." I see however there is 3 pages of troll feeding. :P No one really asks this question in the ecumenical public with any legitimate curiosity. The religious ask it within their communities to find reassurance and bolster a flagging faith. Otherwise it's forum fodder and churn.

Moonhead -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 9:55:38 AM)
Then why have you chosen this thread to make your first post in, if it was just flamebaiting? (Welcome aboard, btw.)

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 10:11:56 AM)
What a stupid thing to say. I guess I can't speak for everyone else, like you apparently can, but just so you know, the title came from an article that was in Atlantic magazine about 10 years ago. Atlantic is not exactly a hot bed of trollism. My curiosity is perfectly legitimate, especially in the face of a couple of other threads going on right now. I generally don't feel the need to flaunt my faith ( or lack of it) in other's faces like some Christians apparently do, but I do like to hear how others balance their lack of faith with a moral code. But thanks for your contribution ( or lack of it) anyway. quote: ORIGINAL: Maestrotigre I saw this title of this post and I thought to myself - "I hope no one fed the troll." I see however there is 3 pages of troll feeding. :P No one really asks this question in the ecumenical public with any legitimate curiosity. The religious ask it within their communities to find reassurance and bolster a flagging faith. Otherwise it's forum fodder and churn.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 11:38:17 AM)
You can speak for me on this one... that WAS a "stupid thing to say". Carry on. [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet What a stupid thing to say. I guess I can't speak for everyone... quote: ORIGINAL: Maestrotigre I saw this title of this post and I thought to myself - "I hope no one fed the troll." I see however there is 3 pages of troll feeding. :P No one really asks this question in the ecumenical public with any legitimate curiosity. The religious ask it within their communities to find reassurance and bolster a flagging faith. Otherwise it's forum fodder and churn.

vincentML -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 3:45:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Another poster on here is discussing her personal struggle with her religious beliefs. I am an atheist, and I really don't have anything to add to her thread, so I thought I would start my own. I believe I am a moral and ethical person for my own reasons, not because of some mythical directives. I think some other posters have also said the same thing about themselves. So, why do people strive to do the right thing, if it isn't because of the hope of some "pie up in the sky, waiting for [them] when they die." (To paraphrase Jimmy Cliff). Allow me to ask the question in its opposite form: Why do some people need the promise of salvation or the threat of damnation to motivate and guide their behavior?

tazzygirl -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 3:50:58 PM)
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

fragilepieces -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 3:57:14 PM)
Excellent topic Iamsenisweet. I am agnostic. However, I try really hard to be a good person, try really hard to be kind to others, I donate, have pretty good morals---as a matter of fact no so long ago when I was working customer service some lady told me that I was so nice and it was refreshing to have a ' good christian' on the phone and not one of those 'others' all because I said I would send her good thoughts for whatever illness she had. I was half tempted to tell her I was good but not at all a 'christian' however I am a polite agnostic and did not say a word. So why do I try to do the right thing---I don't know---I guess it just gives me a good feeling to be kind to others and attempt to be a good person.

vincentML -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 6:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" Yeah, I've heard that one, Tazzy, but I don't see how it answers the question. Why can't some people do good without hoping for eternal reward? And telling me that "good" is not a Universal truth, as you have been saying in the other thread, makes the answer to the question more elusive, I think. For example, the jihadist suicide bomber who blows away a bus filled with Jews in the name of Allah. Certainly not a good deed by everyone's definition but performed at least partially in expectation of eternal reward. Is this confusing only to me?

tazzygirl -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 6:51:05 PM)
Ummm,. ... you may wanna go back and read the thread. because I never said you had to be godly to be good.

vincentML -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 8:02:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ummm,. ... you may wanna go back and read the thread. because I never said you had to be godly to be good. No, i understand that. I never said or thought that you did. My question was ancillary to the OP. Why do some need the promise of eternal reward to motivate their goodness? Why can't they do good without the Promise of Salvation as Reward for living in grace? Expanding a bit there. What if the Promise of Salvation was gone suddenly. Poof! In a flash. Not likely but somehow atheism became truth. Would those seeking salvation through good works or through Faith in a suddenly, certifiably absent god throw up their hands and abandon their ethics and morals? I would guess not but wouldn't that be a dilemma for them? Just a thought experiment.

xssve -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 8:35:53 PM)
The scientific evidence is that most people, religious or otherwise, are as good as they have to be, especially when somebody is watching. By extension, if you really think Jesus likes to watch, although you may deeply resent the fact that sinners sin and Jesus does nothing, while you writhe in agonizing guilt over every minor infraction of "rules" that don't even appear anywhere in the Bible, then you'll probably not get too out hand, other than brazenly flouting the few that actually do, because what has actually happened is that you've had a serious number done on your head because you're so damned gullible. If, on the other hand, like most people, you're just a Christian because not being one will make your life more difficult, shunned and censured by your more conspicuously devout peers, etc., and/or you don't have any better ideas, and hey, why not, it's free, it's fashionable, and your chances of scoring a virgin are much higher, it's more a question of not getting caught - though if you do, you can plead for leniency because you're a Christian. And, shockingly enough, that's the way it's always been and always will be, forever and ever, amen.

xssve -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 8:38:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Stoning? I do believe it was said.. he who is without sin may cast the first stone. I also do believe I am not entitled to cast that first stone. Are you? How about gays, thumbs up or thumbs down? Inquiring minds want to know.

tazzygirl -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 8:39:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ummm,. ... you may wanna go back and read the thread. because I never said you had to be godly to be good. No, i understand that. I never said or thought that you did. My question was ancillary to the OP. Why do some need the promise of eternal reward to motivate their goodness? Why can't they do good without the Promise of Salvation as Reward for living in grace? Expanding a bit there. What if the Promise of Salvation was gone suddenly. Poof! In a flash. Not likely but somehow atheism became truth. Would those seeking salvation through good works or through Faith in a suddenly, certifiably absent god throw up their hands and abandon their ethics and morals? I would guess not but wouldn't that be a dilemma for them? Just a thought experiment. As I said earlier.... Can you be good without god? Of course Just as someone can be bad with god Jim Jones, Baker, Swaggert... just to name a few

hangemhigh1953 -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 8:49:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Stoning? I do believe it was said.. he who is without sin may cast the first stone. I also do believe I am not entitled to cast that first stone. Are you? There's several passages in the bible which command certain actions result in stoning. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/stoning.html The bible also doesn't take kindly to crossdressing or men having long hair. It doesn't seem to have a problem with slavery or cannibalism though.

tazzygirl -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 8:59:06 PM)
All those are old testament. You may want to recheck my post again. I said Jesus.

xssve -> RE: Can we be "good" without god? (10/1/2011 9:05:49 PM)
Yes, that is a tough one, but in spite of that, stoning became a favorite Christian pastime for centuries, because fortunately, generations of gifted theologians have wrestled with the problem and come up with some "justifications".

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