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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 10:22:54 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If I were president….I would say to the CIA….” Make an attempt to apprehend him but be sure if this is not possible then kill him. That way we could say he was killed in a firefight while we were attempting to apprehend him“.

Why does Obama not have sense enough for a simple solution.

Butch



Well... except... one can hardly be apprehended by a drone and it's senseless to waste the cream of American troops on a faux firefight,


Nope... We can kill enemy leaders and their lieutenants by drones and we have President Obama to thank for it! The support of liberal American Democrats of this type of action and there cheering acceptance of the precedent... what did Heretic use earlier.... ah yes.... Gravy.



< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 9/30/2011 10:23:17 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 10:49:32 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		Well done Mr Panetta, kudos to this administration.

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 9/30/2011 10:50:22 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 3:38:06 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Listening to a Brit analyst on NPR today,he said there was no doubt he was held in their prison.How one can know for sure that he was or wasn`t tortured,I can`t say.

But something happened.

He claimed that he was tortured.And at the time,Yemen was one of the torture out-source countries we were(bush was) using.

So if true,this would point to torture actually causing terrorism,not preventing it.




In 2002 he was active in the UK recruiting young men and telling them of the rewards waiting in heaven. This was some four yeats before his spell in prison, originally for a kidnapping in Yemen.

You are right, we cant know for sure that he was or wasnt tortured, but we can know for sure he was preaching about martyrdom.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 3:43:58 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Does torture cause terrorism?

No.

And I don't mind hearing stories.  Even if not true, they have a utility at times.

But basing policy decisions on false beliefs and "facts" can be dangerous.

Firm



Shakes head..... If you think youths reading about the torture of Muslims are not driven to sign up, then you are sadly mistaken.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 3:50:52 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I feel sorry for people who have not understood the fight against terrorism is a scam.



You dont think this would have been out in the mainstream press then ? After all, Watergate, Irangate, Abu Ghraib (sp) and a myriad of other incidents made the news, despite the best efforts to silence them.

Instead of feeling sorry for those of us able to read a newspaper, your time would be best served not reading Alex and co.

No doubt political captal can be made by both sides due to terrorist incidents, but the poor victims of terror attacks can hardly be called a scam.

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 4:38:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

..............except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger...............

Yeah the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth....So help me, Allah!!!!

I think you need to dig a little deeper.

You are basically taking the position that if the President orders a US military force to assassinate an American citizen, that is legal.


I am taking the presidents postion, he was not targeted, he was a casualty of war.

The entire world is a battlefield, then?

Firm




Has it never been so, or always been so? I think the latter. Krieg ist!!!!

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 4:47:31 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

was waiting for the false flagists to come out


Wait long enough and a Republican will be president and you can watch the people now defending the right to kill American citizens without due process, flip over and vehemently denounce it.


_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 4:48:54 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
~FR~ As Alwaki had renounced his US citizenship, how does he stand legally ? IE, is he no longer American ?



Generally speaking, it is considered rather unamerican by our patriots to consider yourself unamerican.

Now had this fuckstick been a cabbage chopper in Watsonville California, born on american soil of two yemeni nationals the patroitic right would have wanted him declared an illegal instead of the adulation they are showering on him at this time, it is convienient to their ideology to throw their lot in with traitors and terrorists.

But look, again, he wasn't targeted specifically, he was a casualty of the fog of war. Wrong place, wrong time, shit happens.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 4:56:11 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Oh no.....we don`t want to know if it`s true or not......

Such a brave man.......

Let`s just say it is true,would you agree that torture causes terrorism?

Or is that to difficult a question for you to ponder?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Does torture cause terrorism?

No.


What does torture cause?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

And I don't mind hearing stories.  Even if not true, they have a utility at times.

But basing policy decisions on false beliefs and "facts" can be dangerous.

Firm



Now this little ditty here you might want to take back to the nest and share with the teabaggers and the joetheplumber and the rest of the anecdotal evidence crowd, it seems to be how we got here deep in the shit in many areas of our lives in the first place.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 5:03:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

was waiting for the false flagists to come out


Wait long enough and a Republican will be president and you can watch the people now defending the right to kill American citizens without due process, flip over and vehemently denounce it.




Nope, this is the very bent up thinking that gets 'conservatives' in trouble all the time. Nobody is defending a right to kill an america citizen without due process, as has been repeatedly pointed out, he is a casualty of war, now; If you will as a group back a plan to bring W to trial for invasion of Iraq under false pretenses, or at least taking him down for acts of friendly fire since to you these fog of war acts are reprehensible and unconstitutional, then we will all change our tune as well. These are unintended consequences of your positions on the very same issues (or so very nearly like as to be indistinguisable), which you claimed to be legal and patrioticaly american in recent history.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 5:10:32 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

was waiting for the false flagists to come out


Wait long enough and a Republican will be president and you can watch the people now defending the right to kill American citizens without due process, flip over and vehemently denounce it.




Nope, this is the very bent up thinking that gets 'conservatives' in trouble all the time. Nobody is defending a right to kill an america citizen without due process, as has been repeatedly pointed out, he is a casualty of war, now; If you will as a group back a plan to bring W to trial for invasion of Iraq under false pretenses, or at least taking him down for acts of friendly fire since to you these fog of war acts are reprehensible and unconstitutional, then we will all change our tune as well. These are unintended consequences of your positions on the very same issues (or so very nearly like as to be indistinguisable), which you claimed to be legal and patrioticaly american in recent history.


What's this "you" crap? You aren't talking to a Republican, but rather an ex-democrat.

If one group in America disappointed me, it was democrats. Cause I was right there on the front lines with you, raising hell about all the shit that went down, and pretty much, ya'll disappeared the instant a dem became president. A good bit of the stuff that existed then, exists now, along with the new prez doing his bit to grab more control for the executive branch. The only difference is one group has shifted into attack mode, while the other into defense mode.




_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 5:15:51 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Cute. But I am not a democrat. So when you were out on the front lines, you may have been the enemy, depends what you were on the front lines about.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 5:24:33 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."



(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 5:25:05 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		Those lines up there you were talking about, namely the invasion of Iraq - not so much for the invasion itself, but manufacturing the reasons. Other lines were finding someone that understood the Patriot Act wasn't a slippery slope you could avoid by not committing a crime, but more so, a platform for administrations thereafter to seize more power, more control, and adopt more reasons to violate the constitution. Someone who understood that indefinite detention without due process was neither good nor validated by two planes flying into the trade centers, who understood that warrantless wiretaps was fucked up, who..

Well shit, I can go on but you get the picture.


_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 6:06:50 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

We specifically DID NOT go after gaddafi personally



Right. Sure thing. We just defined a "command and control center" as anyplace we thought Kuhdaffy might be at any given time. To be accurate though, it should be "he" defined, because the actions in Libya were taken strictly on Presidential say-so. Thank God we missed, but the remote control exclusion in the War Powers Act is more likely to be the precedent that sends the Dems/libs into a complete tizzy, somewhere down the road.


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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 6:12:48 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

The entire world is a battlefield, then?


Has it never been so, or always been so? I think the latter. Krieg ist!!!!

True,  from a philosophical point of view, I agree.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 10/1/2011 6:13:13 AM >

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Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 6:14:39 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

And, if they had tried him in absentia, and convicted him, this entire question would be gone.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 6:16:28 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Does torture cause terrorism?

No.

And I don't mind hearing stories.  Even if not true, they have a utility at times.

But basing policy decisions on false beliefs and "facts" can be dangerous.



Shakes head..... If you think youths reading about the torture of Muslims are not driven to sign up, then you are sadly mistaken.

I did not say that it might not encourage it.  It's just not the penultimate cause of it.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 7:03:37 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

And, if they had tried him in absentia, and convicted him, this entire question would be gone.

Firm




And if there was proof of targeting, a trial and conviction of the president, there would be a question.

As it is, this is only untoutored fanciful hypotheticals, right? Yanno, like the WMD thing.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 7:15:22 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If that person is a self admitted traitor, as both these were, and beyond the reach of our laws, residing in a foreign nation that does not extradite to the US, then I'm hard pressed to see how they could be afforded the protections of our laws.

So, according to this logic, as long as a US citizen is outside our borders, it's ok to have them assassinated?

Is that what I wrote? No. Then that isn't what I meant.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

BTW where was your concern when Padilla was being held in direct violation of this same amednment?

Was that the shoe bomber?  I wasn't aware that he was assassinated.

Firm


He was held by the US government in direct violation of the 5th amendment for several years. You never complained about that.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 10/1/2011 7:18:09 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 120
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