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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 7:18:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Oh, there are great gobs of shit enshrined in our constitution that are given the wink since before the ink was dry.

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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 7:20:36 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
~FR~ As Alwaki had renounced his US citizenship, how does he stand legally ? IE, is he no longer American ?

It depends, there are some things you have to do to legally renounce your US citizenship. If he did those things then he was no longer a citizen. If he didn't then he was still a citizen as far as the law is concerned.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 8:06:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Ron

This has been discussed before, in the theoretical:

Obama authorizes killing of US citizen  (4/8/2010)

My comments (and discussion with you) start on page 4, post 71.

Firm


Ron Paul is ranting about this.   Yay Ron PAUL.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 8:14:18 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Its bizarre how certain leftists imagineer technicalities for every situation they would scream "WAR CRIME!!!" over, if a Republican were president, which magically makes that same thing "heroic" when a Democrat does it...

Hows that "liberate Libya" thing coming along anyway, boys...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
~FR~ As Alwaki had renounced his US citizenship, how does he stand legally ? IE, is he no longer American ?

It depends, there are some things you have to do to legally renounce your US citizenship. If he did those things then he was no longer a citizen. If he didn't then he was still a citizen as far as the law is concerned.




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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 8:31:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well there aren't any 'free' people in Libya in the Sanity-Iraqi sense, so its goin pretty fuckin good.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 10:36:59 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

Well... except... one can hardly be apprehended by a drone and it's senseless to waste the cream of American troops on a faux firefight


Unless I read the reports wrong there were special forces in Ospreys onsite and available along with carrier based fighter bombers. It does not seem much of a risk to me with that kind of support to at least make an attempt at capture...even if only a loudspeaker demand to stop... then fire away.

The point is not the actual operation but how it is reported... It is down right stupid and incompetent not to of made an attempt no matter how weak before killing him...Under no circumstances can we kill citizens without a trial… Would you stand behind your local police force if they took it upon themselves to be judge jury and executioner.

Now if in trying to appended a suspect and they resist arrest then a police force or our arm forces can and should use deadly force.

Just damn common sense. What the hell is wrong with Obama and his advisors?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/1/2011 10:49:18 AM >

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(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 1:09:35 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its bizarre how certain leftists imagineer technicalities for every situation they would scream "WAR CRIME!!!" over, if a Republican were president, which magically makes that same thing "heroic" when a Democrat does it...

Hows that "liberate Libya" thing coming along anyway, boys...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
~FR~ As Alwaki had renounced his US citizenship, how does he stand legally ? IE, is he no longer American ?

It depends, there are some things you have to do to legally renounce your US citizenship. If he did those things then he was no longer a citizen. If he didn't then he was still a citizen as far as the law is concerned.




What the fuck are you trying to say now? Are you denying that if someone wants to renounce their US citizenship there is a legal way to do so?
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 1:13:44 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its bizarre how certain leftists imagineer technicalities for every situation they would scream "WAR CRIME!!!" over, if a Republican were president, which magically makes that same thing "heroic" when a Democrat does it..

What, you mean like all of these Republicans who are throwing shitfits over a Kenyan Democrat carrying on in exactly the same fashion as the last Republican to run the country did?
If you want to complain about partisan cognitive dissonance, you should probably address that one as well...

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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 1:25:47 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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Status: offline 		Or maybe... he is wondering why the same people who threw a shit fit over the "same fashion as the last Republican to run the country" seem to give the current a pass.



(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 1:38:04 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		unfortunately the last president didnt capture nearly half as many terrorist leaders as this one has done.. he lost interest didnt he... I guess finishing off the job his daddy should have done was good tho!!!!
This one has deported almost as many illegal immigrants as bush let in....
The republican party became the party of no, WHY?? it wasnt because they tried to be interested in the people of the USA but because they have fought against EVERYTHING
to deny that the divisions are down to just "him" are idiotic.






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(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 2:41:01 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry, Lucy, but absolute numbers and as a percentage of GDP might show something entirely different.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 2:53:44 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Well yeah, that and which party had control of the House...

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(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 3:12:29 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		If you have got something different Firm..from treasury figures, please go ahead.

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(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 3:26:13 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Or maybe... he is wondering why the same people who threw a shit fit over the "same fashion as the last Republican to run the country" seem to give the current a pass.

I'm sorry I ust have missed some news. When did the Obama administration start torturing people? When did the Obama administration invade a country that had never attacked us on trumped up reasons? When did Obama declare that he didn't really care where OBL was? When did the Obama administration try and deny people in its custody their most basic constitutional right?

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 4:00:26 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Or maybe... he is wondering why the same people who threw a shit fit over the "same fashion as the last Republican to run the country" seem to give the current a pass.

I'm sorry I ust have missed some news. When did the Obama administration start torturing people? when he continued renditioniWhen did the Obama administration invade a country that had never attacked us on trumped up reasons? good thing nobody hasWhen did Obama declare that he didn't really care where OBL was?he didnt need to since he realized that continuing GWBs policies would eventually root him out When did the Obama administration try and deny people in its custody their most basic constitutional right? when he had two US citizens killed



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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 4:30:00 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its bizarre how certain leftists imagineer technicalities for every situation they would scream "WAR CRIME!!!" over, if a Republican were president, which magically makes that same thing "heroic" when a Democrat does it...

Hows that "liberate Libya" thing coming along anyway, boys...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
~FR~ As Alwaki had renounced his US citizenship, how does he stand legally ? IE, is he no longer American ?

It depends, there are some things you have to do to legally renounce your US citizenship. If he did those things then he was no longer a citizen. If he didn't then he was still a citizen as far as the law is concerned.






Projecting much ? Nothing you have quoted backs up your viewpoint. You also forget I have often posted Bush was right to go after terrorists and invade Afghanistan. Then again, taking in what you read never was your strongpoint.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 4:46:13 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Does torture cause terrorism?

No.




quote:


I did not say that it might not encourage it.  It's just not the penultimate cause of it.

Firm




Semantics Firm. The torture of terrorists causes more terrorism, by the fact it acts as a recruiting agent.

The question you posed wasnt what is the main cause of terrorism, but does torture cause terrorism. History shows it clearly does, since it acts as a rallying flag.


< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/1/2011 4:47:19 PM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 5:07:34 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Or maybe... he is wondering why the same people who threw a shit fit over the "same fashion as the last Republican to run the country" seem to give the current a pass.

I'm sorry I ust have missed some news. When did the Obama administration start torturing people? when he continued renditioniWhen did the Obama administration invade a country that had never attacked us on trumped up reasons? good thing nobody hasWhen did Obama declare that he didn't really care where OBL was?he didnt need to since he realized that continuing GWBs policies would eventually root him out When did the Obama administration try and deny people in its custody their most basic constitutional right? when he had two US citizens killed



Bullshit
The Obama administration rendition policy expressly forbids torture.
Iraq never attacked us and the invasion was based on trumped up reasons.
Bush did quite famously say he did not care where OBL was and was not spending any time trying to find him. Obama used our national security apparatus to find and kill OBL. It required a distinct change in policy from GWB's to do so.
How precisely did the Obama administration deny those two men a right they could only be afforded if they were in the custody of the US or a state or local government? How precisely were those two denied anything guaranteed in the US Constitution.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/1/2011 6:05:16 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The Obama administration rendition policy expressly forbids torture.

Iraq never attacked us and the invasion was based on trumped up reasons.

Bush did quite famously say he did not care where OBL was and was not spending any time trying to find him. Obama used our national security apparatus to find and kill OBL. It required a distinct change in policy from GWB's to do so.

How precisely did the Obama administration deny those two men a right they could only be afforded if they were in the custody of the US or a state or local government? How precisely were those two denied anything guaranteed in the US Constitution.



If you think the United States has not used enhanced interrogation techniques since President Obama came into office you are beyond naive.

The United Nations authorized the invasion of Iraq and Congress went along with it as well... You might want the reasons to be trumped up but your reasoning has more to do with your political views.

Your next line is just pure political pap.

A United States citizen may renounce their citizenship, but they are incapable of renouncing their legal rights, especially their inalienable ones. They have them whether they want them or not and even in a foreign country, even when subjected to foreign laws.





< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 10/1/2011 6:10:18 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/2/2011 10:37:17 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The Obama administration rendition policy expressly forbids torture.

Iraq never attacked us and the invasion was based on trumped up reasons.

Bush did quite famously say he did not care where OBL was and was not spending any time trying to find him. Obama used our national security apparatus to find and kill OBL. It required a distinct change in policy from GWB's to do so.

How precisely did the Obama administration deny those two men a right they could only be afforded if they were in the custody of the US or a state or local government? How precisely were those two denied anything guaranteed in the US Constitution.



If you think the United States has not used enhanced interrogation techniques since President Obama came into office you are beyond naive.

Got any evidence for this claim?

quote:

The United Nations authorized the invasion of Iraq and Congress went along with it as well... You might want the reasons to be trumped up but your reasoning has more to do with your political views.

Are you still under the belief that GWB and his handlers believed there were WMD's in Iraq? You need to read the Downing Street memos.

quote:

Your next line is just pure political pap.

A United States citizen may renounce their citizenship, but they are incapable of renouncing their legal rights, especially their inalienable ones. They have them whether they want them or not and even in a foreign country, even when subjected to foreign laws.

The discussion was of constitutional rights which do not apply to people not in the US or under the control of the US government.






(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 140
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