is romance dead? (Full Version)

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asensualpet -> is romance dead? (10/19/2004 6:04:59 PM)

I have talked to many Doms since I've been in the lifestyle like those I'm sure many of you have met. I've met those from one spectrum to the other... those who are wannabes.. all the way to those who have been in the lifestyle so long they have their minds set on what a submissive/slave should be and that's that. I was lucky enough to meet some great friends early on who showed me how things could be.

As much as I know I am submissive, I've been accused of not letting myself be what I could be. As my nickname says, I am a sensual pet. There are things I enjoy, though I know I couldn't be a pain slut. I am looking for the total package, which includes BDSM but also someone who can have fun in vanilla ways.

Maybe reading my profile would help explain this, but I hope romance is not dead in this lifestyle. I don't want to be ordered around 24/7, but I do enjoy many aspects of the lifestyle. I am not looking to be pampered, but I would like to find someone who wants to take care of me as much as I want to make Him happy.

I've been told before that I'm not submissive because I am a strong woman. But that makes me think of the Dom I met early on who told me that if I didn't have any strength, there was no power to take from me or for me to sacrifice.

Anyway, I have met so many who are set on their definition of a sub/slave and will not vary from that. Is there some reason romance can't be a part of this lifestyle? I'm not looking for someone to send me flowers on a daily basis or anything like that, though I would be flattered to receive them. I'm looking for someone who can show compassion and have fun with His partner. Someone who can give me a look from across the room that makes my heart flutter, but at the same time lets me know I am His. Is there something wrong with wanting that, or am I looking in the wrong place? I hate to think I am.



susannah -> RE: is romance dead? (10/19/2004 6:26:06 PM)

I think romance shouldn't be dead. I think I've seen some "What is a Master", etc. writings that state that D/s relationships are Reciprocal (or should be). To me, that means (hopefully) that the sub is sacrificing some of her power in a TPE to the Dom so that they both are getting what they need from the relationship. If what you need is romance, maybe it's time to re-negotiate, if you're not getting it. I know what I am looking for in a D/s relationship is some form of chivalry, such as occasional flowers and dinner, and I love it when my Dom opens doors for me. There was a discussion a few weeks ago (some thread or other) about whether this kind of chivalric behavior on the part of a Dom made them "less Domly". There seemed to be no general concensus, and even though you are a sub, if you will be accused of "topping from the bottom" if you state you need more "romance" (and I'd be specific about what "romance" includes, be it sexual or just behavioral) then maybe you are with the wrong Dom. But I'd give things a chance and discuss them first - maybe he has no idea "romance" is what you need?

I know that I've seen some folks just focus on what they want as far as bdsm stuff and "poof!" they are in a "relationship" - based on the fact they both like what: Anal sex? Flogging? That might work for "sceneing" - and that's what some are looking for. But there is a person to get to know for a 24/7 R-time relationship to flourish. Some folks can be compatible in the bedroom and pretty incompatible elsewhere - although a whole lot of sexual compatibility might mean they work hard to overcome or "live with" incompatibility elsewhere if they want a 24/7. My opinion only here, this is what I think, and i realize it's probably not what lots of people think. Good luck. - Susannah

- Susannah



sweetpleaser -> RE: is romance dead? (10/19/2004 7:14:57 PM)

Well I hope romance is not dead. I am extremely romantic!! I love chivalry as well. I don't see why a Dom can't open doors for his sub. That doesn't make him less domly. Frankly it's a big turn on for me to have a man open doors, order for me at a restaurant, lightly hold my elbow as we meander around tables and such.

I love to take care of His needs and I know my place in the relationship. But I want to be appreciated as well and treated like a woman. I want him to be a man and stand up for me if someone gives me a problem. He needs to be the security guard of our home. He needs to be the bug catcher (can't stand spiders!). I don't see that as topping from the bottom at all.

I know you and Susannah are new to the forum (welcome!!), but you will get to know some of the Doms/Masters here through their writings. Their personalities will show up and you will see there are some romantic men here.

Good luck asensualpet; I am sure you will find someone who appreciates your nature.



asensualpet -> RE: is romance dead? (10/19/2004 7:24:48 PM)

ann,

I think you understand where I am coming from. I hope more do, and I hope we get more responses from male Dominants. I agree with you that I enjoy a Dom opening doors for me and such. The first one I met was very big into that and it made me feel special.

I think the first response I got to this thread had a different perspective than I did. I hope to see some more opinions in coming posts. :) According to your post, I will find some Doms who feel differently than those I have met recently, and I hope you are right.

asensualpet



susannah -> RE: is romance dead? (10/19/2004 7:28:28 PM)

Thank you for the welcome, Sweet Pleaser. I know I've seen some Doms on thse boards who know that "chivalry is not dead", so there is hope, asensual pet! - Susannah



subbiejenn -> RE: is romance dead? (10/19/2004 7:29:23 PM)

*Agrees 100% with Sweet*

i love being treated like His Queen! *grins*

Also there are many Doms who post regularly in forum who have these wonderful qualities and many more. I've meet several wonderful romantic Doms here at collarme just takes time...





asensualpet -> RE: is romance dead? (10/19/2004 7:33:21 PM)

Thank you, ladies! :) I guess we'll see if we can get any Doms to reply to this thread. If not, then I'm worried... lol.



susannah -> RE: is romance dead? (10/19/2004 7:44:24 PM)

Last Spring, when I first started really researching my interest in bdsm, I was on-line friends with a guy who sort of mentored me (in an unsexual context - he just answered a lot of questions I had about bdsm). He said he considered opening doors, etc., part of his basic way he treats women. He said he wanted his partner to feel special, and cherished. I think there are probably many Doms out there who do feel this way, and if you're giving your all to meet their needs, and this is one of yours, they will meet it.

There are also men who were not ever raised to treat women as anything other than dishrags, and would never consider opening a door for a woman, helping her on with her coat, buying her dinner, etc. If they state in their profiles what they are looking for (and if someone who may be interested in them asks them what they think of occasionally buying a woman flowers, their response might tell you everything you need to know - as in, they are not for you). If they tell the truth.

There are probably Doms out there who would lie about their feelings about things like opening doors for women, buying flowers, etc. - just to "scene" with someone, but I have to wonder where it gets them in the long run, if they state they are looking for 24/7 R-Time with a sub who wants these things. - Susannah



compes -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 12:22:59 AM)

I'm thinking that any Dom who ventures an opinion here after all of this buildup will have his words examined in the focus of a withering feminine romantic magnifying lens.

But I’m brave, or foolish. (There's a fine line there!)

Sensualpet, from what I’ve read of your words here, and in your profile, you seem (IMO) to be interested in only one aspect of BDSM – the D/s portion. (Perhaps bondage too.) You seem to put firm limits on what you are not willing to do. I’m not judging that – you should do what makes you happy.

I also think that Doms put firm limits on what they are looking for in a submissive. Yea, yea, I know – there are ‘wannabes’ who will say anything to get into your panties – I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about Dominants who know what they are looking for, as far as BDSM likes and dislikes, and who carefully use BDSM as a filter. I think that could be a shame - a good match may be filtered out because a couple didn’t get to know each other first – and then figure out how to mesh their BDSM likes together.

But then again BDSM likes and dislikes can be a deal-breaker – so I guess there isn’t an easy solution there.


As for romance – it isn’t dead. (It’s ailing perhaps!) The problem is that (in America at least) we seem to talk a LOT about romance, but we don’t really teach men how to do it. (Yes, I said men! There are woman who are completely non-romantic too, but I think men are the majority in non-romance! However women in my opinion are more likely to have unrealistic ideas of romance – but save that for another topic.)

I don’t think the average guy realizes just how carefully a woman will watch him. BDSM helps heighten a man’s awareness of a woman’s scrutiny, but there are still plenty of clueless Doms. I also think that romance gets lost on the average guy in a sort of Big Hollywood Romantic Event; such as filling the bedroom with flowers and balloons and candles, or presenting her with a diamond right out of a DeBeers commercial. It’s too easy for a guy to try to ‘purchase’ romance – and then expect to just ‘coast’ for a while afterwards.

When it comes to a standard ‘romantic gesture’ the guy might open doors, and then he’s stuck for what to do. The average guy might try to score points by doing the dishes or cleaning the house. But that’s not really romance, that’s just two people living together.


I don’t see why a Dom can’t be romantic. If a Dom can spend six months practicing with a single-tail whip until he can put out the flame of a candle, he should be able to spend a week (or more – some of us are slow learners) learning how to be romantic with his partner.

I know that small, thoughtful gestures work very well. “Domliness” <chuckle> isn’t threatened by being a romantic too. A picnic, a hand written note, a walk together, an inexpensive but thoughtful gift, unexpected praise. I think that chivalry is only a small part of romance – chivalry can lose its value by turning into a habit that requires no thought. True romance is based on thoughtful gestures.

Compes




Greybeard50 -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 9:32:31 AM)

Romance isn't dead. Yet anyway.
I realize that I come from a different generation than most, and I was raised to open doors and do the heavy work. But that isn't even any part of romance, that's just being a gentleman. I do that for strangers too.
D/s to me is the ability to carry your love, trust and committment further than you dreamed possible. It's not about beating someone senseless. That's a whole other facet of BDSM that I have no interest in. I'm the way I am for pleasure, in many forms, but the pleasure has to be a shared one.
What I desire is to have someone hand me their heart, their soul, and their body. It's not something I can take, they have to give it to me eagerly.
What I have to give is my full protection, my committment, my desire and the feeling of total trust.
I have to realize how precious a gift it is that I demand, and treat it as such. And that means that I give my love... and show it.. That's all romance is really, just showing your love in many ways.
D/s isn't about contracts, limits or scenes. It's about committment to another and it has to run both ways or it's just a game.



MissFem -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 9:58:35 AM)

Its not dead I swear!!!.....I can be very much the romantic....as well as very much the Domme........bring it back....revive it I say



happypervert -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 10:39:34 AM)

You seem to be assuming that dominants are somehow different in this respect than non-dominants in the population at large. I'm sure you could go to the bar with your friends on girls night out and listen to them talk about what clods the men in their lives are. So what else is new?

You can probably find the answer to your question by going to the news stand and picking up the latest issue of Cosmo, Ladies Home Journal, or anything else aimed at a female audience.



susannah -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 11:38:59 AM)

I really like what you say, here, Greybeard. I know that, like Compes mentioned above, that chivalry can be considered mechanical manners a lot of men were taught, and things like opening doors, etc. can become just rote. I think I was thinking it's the thoughtfulness behind the act that makes it romantic, if it is something someone doesn't have to do, or does for just one special person. I guess it doesn't have to be about opening doors (but I think that's nice, and I like it when it happens), but it's more like what you can do for someone that day that will make them feel special and let them know that you are the most important person in their world, whether it's note, a card, a hug, talking for awhile, a walk together or I guess making some kind of sacrifice and doing something you wouldn't normally do, except if you do it for them, they'll know it's because you love them? Like going to a Mexican restaurant if it's not your favorite ethnic food? Maybe a silly example, but you get my drift.

No, I am not into being beaten senseless, either, although I would learn to take a little (maybe more) pain if it turned my partner on, I wouldn't do pain for pain's sake. I think I read someone who said a D/s relationship is about lifting two people up, not beating them down (or one of them) - I think that is called "deconstruction" if I'm not mistaken (beating someone down, and just leaving them there - Nope, not for me. - Susannah



Mercnbeth -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 11:45:41 AM)

Romance is dead? Maybe. What’s the definition? Yours seems pretty one sided. I don’t think this is too liberal an interpretation of what you said; “I want a man who will dominate me, but not too much.” “I’m submissive, but don’t want to submit to anything that I really don’t want to do.” “I don’t want to be pampered, but I want someone to take care of me.” “I can put up with some of the things associated with the BDSM lifestyle as long as there is not too much pain involved.” “If he does that, takes me places and sends me flowers every so often, then he can look at me from across the room and know that I am his.” I guess that can define romance; it’s the foundation of almost every romance novel. Does it define a D/s lifestyle? It’s not for me to judge. I can say it doesn’t define mine/ours.

I do not believe that weakness is a necessary trait of submission. To the contrary it requires strength and conviction. In fact a Master’s strength is derived by the power relinquished to him by his slave. So I challenge anyone who says they may be too strong to submit. It only takes desire to relinquish that strength. And the precursor to relinquishing it is having trust in the person you are relinquishing it to. But that is the power and foundation of the relationship we enjoy. And we both feel it’s very romantic, 24/7.

I also challenge the premise that all relationships are based on compromise. Long term, compromise breeds resentment. Replace compromise with honesty and you have a better chance. Want to know why we have a contract, unenforceable legally as it is? It documents our honest expectations. And if during that process, receiving flowers every other week was beth’s expectation it would have been included. Anyone who has contacted me on either side of the lifestyle that asked me what they should do to find the right person has gotten my opinion that whatever they do – do not compromise. The process starts from the desired goal and working backwards. The most difficult part of the process really isn’t finding the right person, it’s the difficult, honest, self-evaluation to determine if you are willing and have what it takes to achieve that goal.

So there it is again – Honesty & Trust. That’s true romance. All the trips, adventures, romantic nights by the fire, or walking hand in hand along the beach all happen within that context. When I read what I feel are whiny posts from subs and doms about unfulfilled expectations or starting with; “Why can’t my sub/dom be more….” (fill in the blank); I wonder if they really know what they want? It also makes me think that a large amount of profiles and ads posted can be condensed down to one line. For those looking for the physical - “Willing to do just about anything it takes to get laid.” For those looking for the ‘romance’ – “Willing to endure some physical discomfort for companionship.”



susannah -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 11:54:32 AM)

You're right, Happy Pervert, most women's magazines have scads of advice on "how to imrpve" this or that about a relationship.

I personally don't think most men are clods at all, but - it's crossed my mind that some people might think having a D/s relationship (and this could be a man or a woman, a sub or a Dom) might be a way to "take all the work, romantic or other, out of it" because the Dom's word will be "law" and the sub won't have to think (or won't be allowed to think)and make major decisions (I am saying women and subs could think this as much as Doms could). So maybe they think romance isn't an issue, because the Dom says it's not? Hmmmm. Note here, I am not referring to anyone in particular - I certainly don't know anyone well enough to say anything like this, and wouldn't do it even if I thought I did. But I have seen a few who seem to think this. I've also seen just as many who I think are honest and sincere and really looking to make this work, long-term.

Reading the forums here for the past few weeks (Yes, I confess I was a "lurker") and seeing all the references to HNGs, etc. and reading profiles and seeing people says things like "on your knees now b_", etc. it crossed my mind some people think this D/s thing is the perfect solution to get to go from Point A to Point Z with out having to touch any in-between points.

I've also read a lot of posts from people who strike me as completely dedicated, honest and trustworthy (with lots of good things to say).

But from what I've read, anyone serious about a D/s relationship (especially a 24/7 or TPE relationship) should be prepared to really work at it, as well as enjoy it. - Susannah



susannah -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 11:58:24 AM)

You're brave Compes, beacuse you kept this post alive, hehe. I think I've revised my notion of chivalry to include personal thoughtfulness - good point. - Susannah



susannah -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 12:02:35 PM)

There is lots of food for thought here in Merc and Beth's post (for me in particular, and I am guessing others, too). This was a great post. - Susannah



NoCalOwner -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 12:25:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: asensualpet
I guess we'll see if we can get any Doms to reply to this thread. If not, then I'm worried... lol.

Don't be worried. There are a lot of romantic Doms here, and even slave owners, but most of them don't talk about it much. It's one of those things like not being sadistic, or feeling service-oriented -- traits which are perfectly compatible with being a Dom, but which don't necessarily fit the stereotypical image, in which "Dom" and "top" get muddled. So they're mostly kinda quiet about it. But sometimes there are things which give them away. Take that pic over to the left of the screen, for example...



srahfox -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 12:31:35 PM)

I think the biggest hurtle 'romance' truely has, in the vanilla world and in bdsm, is there isn't one answer to what's romantic. I think it's wonderful if my husband (Dom) brings me flowers. He doesn't, he sees nothing romantic about bring someone something that will die. But you know, every once in a while he does it because he knows I like it. It's not a compromise om his part really because he knows it makes me happy. Yes he does open doors for me and carry the heavy stuff. Was he raised that way? Sort of. Mostly he does it to be gentlemanly. Then he's like that for everyone. It never makes me think he's less domly or manly, it just reminds me that I love him that much more.
But he's not beyound telling me to get down on my knees.
The bottom line is that there are so many people out there and so many believes. If there is something you really want, really feel you must have. Some out there thinks the same way.



asensualpet -> RE: is romance dead? (10/20/2004 8:33:37 PM)

Mercnbeth.. I think you definitely twisted everything I am or said. Thank you for belittling a sincere post by making me out to be some Harlequin romance reader with her head in the clouds.

I do appreciate some of the other posts though and will probably reply when I have more time. Right now, it's bedtime.



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