RE: Forgive Student Loans?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Forgive Student Loans?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Forgive Student Loans?

Page: << < prev 7 8 9 [10] 11 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 10:40:47 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

EVERYTHING FREEEEEE! Yeah, that works everywhere it's tried. I say let the idiots sing and chant... they are the true face of the modern democrat party. One more year of this nonsense. ONE MORE YEAR.

What happens in one year?

(in reply to ArizonaBossMan)

Profile

Post #: 181

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 10:42:39 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

EVERYTHING FREEEEEE! Yeah, that works everywhere it's tried. I say let the idiots sing and chant... they are the true face of the modern democrat party. One more year of this nonsense. ONE MORE YEAR.

What happens in one year?

We just get a different dickhead in Congress/WhiteHouse to bitch about.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 182

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 10:46:44 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personal responsibility. If I offer you rat poison and you know it's rat poison and you eat it anyway, is it my fault you get sick?

Where is your "personal responsibility" if you give rat poison to a fool whom you know will eat it?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Profile

Post #: 183

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 10:48:52 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

If the banks are giving tuition loans to kids to make them unemployable when they graduate, I really can't see any problem with them being expected to eat the cost themselves. Sorry.

The only thing that makes a student unemployable when they graduate is the student either fucking off and flunking out or choosing a major that leads to a McJob.

Personal responsibility. If I offer you rat poison and you know it's rat poison and you eat it anyway, is it my fault you get sick?

Fair point.
I can still understand some idiot whose careers advisor told him that a joint honours degree in medieval metaphysics and Bowie studies would get them a job feeling a bit narked when they meet reality, though.

If someone is that stupid, I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for em.

It would appear that you feel that those who are not as clever as you should be punished.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Profile

Post #: 184

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 10:51:55 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

EVERYTHING FREEEEEE! Yeah, that works everywhere it's tried. I say let the idiots sing and chant... they are the true face of the modern democrat party. One more year of this nonsense. ONE MORE YEAR.

What happens in one year?

We just get a different dickhead in Congress/WhiteHouse to bitch about.

Same shit different flies?

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Profile

Post #: 185

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 11:07:05 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Semi, I think you are talking about two problems. Built up student loans and high cost of education. Are you saying fuck you to all the people that have student loan debt? That that group basically is fucked for life?

I agree that education costs need to be brought in line.

Who told you to take out loans you couldn't afford to repay? Who held the gun to your head as you signed on the dotted line?

In NJ, most of the community colleges have programs that with a certain GPA or higher all credits will be accepted at most 4-yr universities, leading to only needing to be at a 4-yr school for 2 yrs to get your BA/BS.

Rutgers University tuition per year: $10,104 (In-state) / $22,766 (Out-of-state)
Local Community College tuition per year (based on 15 credits/semester): $4,000 (in-county) / $4,300 (out-of-county)

Savings in tuition for 2 yrs at community college: $12,208 - $36,932

Additionally, MANY employers have tuition assistance, so if you go to school AND work, your company may foot much of the bill as well.

So, after 2 yrs, you will have an associate's degree, you can transfer into a good 4 yr college, and may have saved almost $40K in the process of getting that education, and if you work at a company with tuition reimbursement, you are getting work experience (potentially in your field) making it easier to find employment when you get your 4-yr degree. Of course doing it this way will limit your socializing, but what are you going to school for: the parties or an education?

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Profile

Post #: 186

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 11:15:30 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

If the banks are giving tuition loans to kids to make them unemployable when they graduate, I really can't see any problem with them being expected to eat the cost themselves. Sorry.

The only thing that makes a student unemployable when they graduate is the student either fucking off and flunking out or choosing a major that leads to a McJob.

Personal responsibility. If I offer you rat poison and you know it's rat poison and you eat it anyway, is it my fault you get sick?

Fair point.
I can still understand some idiot whose careers advisor told him that a joint honours degree in medieval metaphysics and Bowie studies would get them a job feeling a bit narked when they meet reality, though.

If someone is that stupid, I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for em.

It would appear that you feel that those who are not as clever as you should be punished.

I feel that people who make bad decisions should be held accountable for their own decisions and not go whining that others need to pay.
By the same token, people who make good responsible decisions should reap the rewards of those decisions.
Nothing about being clever or not. That's your strawman, not mine. People with low intelligence make good decisions and people of high intelligence do stupid things all the time.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 187

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 11:15:57 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

but what are you going to school for: the parties or an education?

If you want to make money go to trade school.
If you want to become educated go to college.

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Profile

Post #: 188

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 11:16:55 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

but what are you going to school for: the parties or an education?

If you want to make money go to trade school.
If you want to become educated go to college.

Excellent assessment.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 189

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 11:35:51 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

but what are you going to school for: the parties or an education?

If you want to make money go to trade school.
If you want to become educated go to college.

I don't have a problem with trade schools either. A BA has become the equivalent of a HS diploma in the workplace due to the glut of them. A BA/BS is really only necessary in a few fields, certainly not as many as there are degrees ;)

In fact, I'm in the process of saving money for a trade school (culinary arts/culinary mgmt) and I already have a BA. Food is one of my passions.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 190

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 11:42:48 AM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

I read this. God, Student Loans are worse than goddamn mortgages in terms of trying to figure them out. What I understood this link to say though was that in the FUTURE this is how loans would be made. I did not get the impression that this affect preexisting loans, unless the borrower consolidates.

I would like to comment on consolidation loans. They give people an opportunity to lump a number of loans together, and write one check instead of many. They often allow extended payment terms and favorable interest rates, depending on the market at the time. The problem is, you can only consolidate once, so it is kind of a crap shoot. Obviously you want to consolidate when interest is low, since that rate applies to the new loan. However, if the rate goes down further, you can't consolidate again. In short, another opportunity to gamble with your future!

Isn't the real problem here a lack of jobs for college graduates? After all, not having loans is not going to affect whether you find a job or not. I am just trying to work out in my mind how forgiving of student loans will create jobs and improve this fucking death spiral we are in.

By the way DomYngBlk, I am a shareholder in a couple of banks. Believe me, I have been feeling a lot of pain from my bank stocks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Hi Semi

Maybe I'm not understanding something- but it looks to me like the Fed has taken over the loans that had been handed to the banks. The banks may have originated the loans, but the Dept of Ed is now responsible. See: http://www.estudentloan.com/student-loans/federal-stafford-loan.html

Since it's not the banks capital- I don't see how much squawking they can really do. Furthermore, given the high rate of defaults, its clear that the banks haven't been responsible lenders, so again, I'm not so sure that their contracts would really hold water.

DBG- there's a spreadsheet that I downloaded that I can't find the link to again called debtatgraduation which breaks down student debt, parent debt etc. It looks like the average student educational debt at graduation is $37k with about $24k of that being student debt or about $6k per year with the remainder being parental debt. There are big differences between the mean and the average though, which means that there are some people with six figure debt in the average as well.

Sam

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to samboct)

Profile

Post #: 191

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 12:10:30 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

The *real* money is not in "getting" a degree it's in *selling degrees!*
The smartest thing a group of college grads could do is to start their own college when they get out!
The "Stevie, Bobby, "Ray", Linda, Sue college of....."
You give them a bargain rate of $20k a pop and you get 500 of them there after three years you do the math.
You'd have all your building loans paid off in a short time and it's all "gravy" after that!
"Stevie, Bobby, "Ray", Linda, Sue are all driving Cadillacs and taking a salary of $1 per year with a $500 k expense account to spend any way they wish!
I have a nephew who just graduated U. New Hampshire with a "degree" in ....."International relations" one of those "bullshit degrees."
Guess what, he drives a bus part time, is a "helper" for his father who's a carpenter and yes,.....lives at home with the parents.
Did he think some big corporation was going to snap him up and send him over to France or Germany to have good "relations" with the chicks over there?
He spent about $120k on a B.A. and I don't know how much his loans are but they're probably substantial and the interest keeps accruing on them until they're paid off.
What's he going to do for a job with that kind of degree even if people and companies were hiring?
Any kind of job he could have gotten was probably "outsourced" long ago!
One thing's for sure, he paid for three Cadillacs! And he's driving a 7 year old Toyota!
Too bad he wasn't an accounting major.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 10/20/2011 12:16:31 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to kalikshama)

Profile

Post #: 192

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 12:18:59 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

This is the reason that we don't let you handle money.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to popeye1250)

Profile

Post #: 193

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 12:20:20 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

One way to deal with the moral issue is to go to principal only loans- these folks said they'd borrow money for school and it'll get paid back, just not with interest. This is halfway between complete forgiveness and not doing anything. Since most of the loans are now held by the federal gov't- we don't have the banks whining about losing money.

I like this too.

(in reply to samboct)

Profile

Post #: 194

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 1:06:34 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

but what are you going to school for: the parties or an education?

If you want to make money go to trade school.
If you want to become educated go to college.

I think students failing in college due to excessive partying are in the minority. It's far more likely professors are assigning too much time consuming homework for working college students. Most college students have jobs so the amount of homework professors assign should reflect that.

Most people want to make money, regardless of where they receive their training. There shouldn't be a difference between trades schools and colleges. Nobody should be forced to pay for courses they don't need, regardless of career choice. People shouldn't have to borrow thousands of dollars for what many foreigners they're forced to compete against get free.

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 195

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 2:37:27 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

but what are you going to school for: the parties or an education?

If you want to make money go to trade school.
If you want to become educated go to college.

I don't have a problem with trade schools either. A BA has become the equivalent of a HS diploma in the workplace due to the glut of them. A BA/BS is really only necessary in a few fields, certainly not as many as there are degrees ;)

In fact, I'm in the process of saving money for a trade school (culinary arts/culinary mgmt) and I already have a BA. Food is one of my passions.

Here a culinary degree and 2 bucks will get you a cup of coffee. The schools here are cranking out so many of them "chefs" many cant find work.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Profile

Post #: 196

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 3:28:25 PM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

Those culinary schools are scary. They are incredibly expensive, and they basically train their students to wait tables. I think those types of schools need to be closely scrutinized, and possibly not allowed to participate in the federal loan programs if their default rate is high. If the schools believe their students will find great jobs, the schools should be the ones lending the money.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Profile

Post #: 197

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 3:58:11 PM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline

Well...do we not forgive foreign countries for their loans??? Do we not forgive large banking business in this country of their debt and have the tax payers bail them out?

Seems the USA forgives trillions in debt and yet can't seem to forgive debt created in this country when banks got a sweet deal on those student loans, they get to keep all the profits while the lose is passed onto the taxpayers.

So private profits and social loses is good for this country.

Why don't the lenders eat the loses from the bad student loans.....they took the risk, why is the taxpayer stuck with only the loses and none of the profits the banks make from the dam student loan program.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Profile

Post #: 198

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 5:54:24 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Here, we had three different culinary schools. One has closed since the bubble burst. Students become nothing more than line cooks with debt.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Profile

Post #: 199

RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/20/2011 5:55:05 PM

KeriB

Posts: 315
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It occurs to me that a lot of the private debt is probably guaranteed by the parents of the student, for younger borrowers. Even if the kid goes bankrupt,the parent is still on the hook.

Not always, you remember how after the big best they made it harder for the credit card companies to target young college kids, because the kids had been getting offers and taking them and then stupidly racking up credit card debt? The private student loan companies(Citi, Wells Fargo, BofA, etc) were targeting young students with private loans and they didn't have to have a cosigner. They just said you would likely need a cosigner, but I never had to have one when I got all of mine. The only thing I had in my credit history at the time was one credit card and a co-singed car loan. I was only 20 at the time.

_____________________________

I fear neither death nor pain. A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire. ~ Eowyn

I've seen honest faces, they usually come attached to liars.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Profile

Post #: 200