RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (Full Version)

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lemarquis2 -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 1:27:48 AM)

no - easy answer
the way I organize things may look unorganized for others - eg when I work I need certain things within arm's reach. That might look even messy for others. If someone minds, his/her presence is no longer required ...



Epytropos -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 2:42:31 AM)

I (at least I'm assuming) am the one blush is referring to in the original post, so I'll reply to a couple things.

@Endivius: Where did you get health and finances from? We're talking about housekeeping, not bookkeeping, and certainly not medical care. Is that another connection people are drawing? Messy house = no idea where money goes? Cuz I actually keep most of my money in the bank or the market; no danger of losing it under a stack of mail or something.

As to being in control of my belongings and so forth, that sounds really exhausting. That's right up there with the schedule-making people. How do you find the time and energy to do anything valuable with that much foofaraw in your life?

I will admit to occasional frustration when looking for a specific book, but apart from that I see no negative impact on my life and a great deal of positive in the form of more spare time and (much more importantly) much more peace and bliss. Clean makes me nervous. I once had a roommate that cleaned up everything as soon as she was done with it, and expected me to do the same. Finish a book? Back on the shelf. Finish a DVD? Back in the binder. I moved out 3 months in before I had to get myself (or her) committed.

As I said in the previous thread, to each their own, but I see no valid connection between dominance in a relationship and dominance over shelving.



Arienos -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 3:29:34 AM)

I do not label myself dominant and certainly do not fit the stereotype others have created for me as a submissive but my home, car, boat and office are well organized, clean and rarely in disarray. I don’t think dominant has a thing to do with organizational skills or the discipline to live within a preferred living environment.



NocturnalStalker -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 3:55:37 AM)

Personally, I'm near-obsessive about cleanliness on the hygienic scale.  I'm also the type that makes you put your drink on a coaster. 

However, I am "disorganized" when it comes to papers essential for my courses.  I have them strewn around my room and office space but it is how I manage to operate for whatever reason.  This also applies to textbooks, or novels, or even magazines.

Do I think it is dominant whether someone is orderly or not?  Nope.  Dominance is a way you feel within.  People have their preferences on what they feel is "dominant for them."  It's like how some prefer submissives that they eclipse in height, while I enjoy women that are on the more tall side from 5'6/5'7/similar in proportions to my height.  If there was "one ideal way" to look as a dominant, or to act, I'd probably be fucked since I don't look like the most masculine male out there.

However, actions tell more than mere glance.





xxblushesxx -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 3:57:17 AM)

He makes me put my wineglass on a coaster. Wth is up with that?!![:D]



NocturnalStalker -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 3:59:16 AM)

It just... just DO IT, okay?



Doomkittie -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 4:22:15 AM)


quote:



So you don't believe being in control of your life and your surroundings has anything to do with dominance?




I am not dominant, yet i am in control of my life, my surroundings and the other 3 people I have here, 2 kids and my partner. My partner isn't a Dom.

Being dominant isn't a skill it is a personality trait, organization and planning are learnt skills that go towards helping you be in control and keeping control of your life and surroundings. I worked from a very early age and was responsible for a lot of things, it taught me organization and responsibility, I also like my house to be tidy, yes there are dust bunnies and a few spider webs and a bit of Lego under foot, but we live here, yet I don't have to run around closing doors when you come over, unless you catch me on a recovery day then come at your own peril :)

Alli



crazyml -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 4:32:59 AM)


I'm happily in control of my life and health, but I would never ever claim to be in control of all of the things that go along with it!

For me too much mess would be a turn-off, but so would too much tidiness.

My home is cluttered, and messy at times. Never dirty, but definitely cluttered.

Personally, I'd see things a slightly different way - Ultra "ordered" homes give me the fucking creeps. Exaggerating for effect (and probably doing so largely to rationalise my own messiness) I'd say that the dominant who has to have everything utterly in order is acting out some deep insecurity which I think makes them less of a dominant. OCD isn't a dominant trait.

Too much order implies to me a lack of confidence and creativity. A little mess implies adventure and passion but sure... there's a boundary between "messy" and "slovenly".







xxblushesxx -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 4:44:50 AM)

I'm not saying that orderliness is a dominant trait in that only dominants tend to have that trait or that submissives aren't extremely orderly themselves (excluding me *lol*) but that it's a trait I tend to see in the dominants I've known personally, and wondered if others had the same experience or thoughts. (how's that for a run-on sentence?!!)

I would be surprised to be picked up for a date with a dominant and find the car littered with cigarette butts and miscellania, and I'd be surprised to visit, and find day-old dishes in the sink, dirty clothes strewn about and the trash over-flowing. To me, those would be red flags and I would proceed with more caution than if he were reasonably tidy. (not Seinfeld obsessive, just...neat) 

I really am hearing what everyone's saying though, but since I made this thread, I figured I may as well keep digging this hole deeper. *g*



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 4:47:38 AM)

Dominance does not imply an OCD level of cleanliness and organization, at least to me.

The man has his own room where he engages in his hobby of collecting and painting  war gaming (miniature) figures. He can easily have hundreds or thousands of these out in various stages of completion. His works surfaces might look like a total wreck to me, but he knows where everything is. He doesn't LOOK organized, yet he can generally find what he needs.

I think people vary widely on this issue. I, for instance, reorganize my craft stuff about once a month. I'm not OCD about it, I just know it's easier for me personally to take a project from inception to completion if I know where things are. I don't see this as dominant or submissive --  I see it as how my brain works.



xxblushesxx -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 4:53:51 AM)

Right. But OCD would imply a life that is not in balance. That's not what I'm asking about here. I'm just asking about a general level of organization in the home. Not scheduling everything to the t, and not cleaning until no spot is left de-spotted. Just taking decent care of what is yours.



searching4mysir -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 5:26:45 AM)

For me, the "public" areas of my home are usually neat, clean, and organized but the private areas, while clean, are not neat or organized. No one gets invited into my bedroom but Master, and I will pick up for his visits. The two room that always have to be perfect, for me, is the kitchen and bathroom. I am really (dare I say it) anal about the cleanliness of those rooms. Yes, I might have the morning newspapers on the kitchen table, but the counters, stove, etc. are disinfected after cleaning up after meals.

I'm an administrative assistant by occupation so I'm used to having to be able to find things at a drop of the hat.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 5:38:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Right. But OCD would imply a life that is not in balance. That's not what I'm asking about here. I'm just asking about a general level of organization in the home. Not scheduling everything to the t, and not cleaning until no spot is left de-spotted. Just taking decent care of what is yours.


My way of being organized and his way of being organized are quite different. He will never understand why all the baking staples have to be on the same shelf of the pantry, he just knows that's how I like it.

In my mind, I work more efficiently when I am organized, in his mind, as long as he can find his shit, he could care less. To me that says different brains have different ways they wish to have things organized.

A total lack of organization (or cleanliness for that matter), a not taking care of or caring about your stuff and where you live is a sign of depression. Chronically depressed people don't make good dominants or submissves, b/c they don't make good partners.

For instance: I have to have his express permission to vacuum his hobby room, b/c he wants the chance to make sure none of his lil figures or their many accoutrements are on the floor. To me that is taking decent care of your stuff. That I only get permission to do this every few months is not lack of dominance or caring to me, it that having his floor vacuumed only rises to the top of his priority list that often.

So I guess I am saying the ability to take decent care of your stuff is a good partner trait, not necessarily dominant or submissive.





Kana -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 5:45:50 AM)

Aw fuck. I am anal retentive, near OCD about things like neatness and order. I'd love to claim it's because I'm the jimmyjam and all, but mostly it's because I'm lazy-being organized means I know where everything is, which makes my life easier/smoother/less irritating.
Like seriously, I struggle not to judge folks morally for being slobs. And it's tough. Musta heard the "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" comment one too many times as a kid.



SweetCheri -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 6:09:52 AM)

In our home, it is Heather and I who are the neatniks. Both Suze and Hannah Lynn are the messier ones. I have thought on this a little, and perhaps one could say that excessive neatness and a need to organize is a submissive trait in so far as the person is allowing their environment to dictate their behaviour.

I know that is silly, but I think the reverse is as well, to say that a dominant wants to dominate her environment.

CG



kiwisub12 -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 6:12:30 AM)

Heck, my sweeties house is a bit of a mess - because of the kid living there. Admittedly he doesn't insist the kid pick up after himself, but that is his choice. I like my house tidier than that - but not by much lol. On the neatness scale of the OP, that would make me dominant - of the cleaning supplies!

As it is, i can relax when he comes to my house, because his is messier than mine.

So, no, i don't think neatness is equal to dominance - thank goddess!

but i also wouldn't tolerate piles of dirty clothes and dishes in my own house for long......



Arienos -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 6:24:21 AM)

quote:

So I guess I am saying the ability to take decent care of your stuff is a good partner trait, not necessarily dominant or submissive.


When my wife died I have 2, 21 month old boys (Twins) and a 4 year old daughter, my parents and family lived in California and I lived in Michigan at the time. Ultimately I had little support from my family so I soon became proficient in time management. Fortunately I was in a position to hire a live-in, a 40 year-old recent parolee who had served nine years of a fifteen year sentence for bank fraud. Her parole officer visited weekly, her continued employment was part of her parole and she took her job with me seriously, she was with me a little over five years.

It was her household organizational skills I learned from and most of them I don’t deviate from even today. What I think I am saying is, we form habits about our household and habitually do things without thought, we simply do then because it’s the time and day to do them. Well, that’s how it is for me and my home is always clean net and orderly.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 8:18:39 AM)

My room is a DISASTER. It's not that large, I don't have a desk, so there is a PILE of books, a tote thingy to hold papers/binders, my laptop case, all that stuff there. It looks like I live there. Can I find stuff? Absolutely. My bathroom, clean and neat, the rest of the house, we work at it,.. we're all a little confused, and there is a lot of paper. You can walk barefoot everywhere, heaven knows that I do! There is this twin obsession with laundry and trash...we empty the trash constantly. Dirty laundry? In the laundry baskets. Clean put away right away.

I wish that I had an architechtural digest kind of place, but my relationship to my possessions is such that I have to see and touch them. YARN there is a dish of it on the jewelry chest. Dolls everywhere, two curios of tchochkes and things, art, la la la. Sometimes I go GAH!! and madly put everything away and sigh in relief. Then I take stuff out again bit by bit because I LIVE THERE and that's how it is. There is not an unlimited amount of storage space, and that is a PROBLEM. I am the owner of too many things. That's not a problem at all. [;)]

Not everyone is organized. I am. That doesnt mean I am "more in control", it just means that I have a really good visual memory. Other people are not organized, and that's okay for them, I know I would have a harder time with it. I also have a problem with what I term "squalor", in that I cannot live that way. Dust? Well, I have a grey parrot, I am now immune to even seeing dust...but dishes in the sink? Trash cans full? Laundry everywhere? NO. To my judgmental little self that shows a lack of concern with the personal environment. Not a lack of "dominance", just a standard that *I* consider unacceptable.



xssve -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 8:52:57 AM)

There is order in chaos, it's really a question of mental organization.

So, different strokes, if orderly surroundings help you to focus, then there ya go - obsessive neatness just makes me nervous, I prefer a little clutter, although it does have to be livable.

The question however, seems to be "can a bag lady be dominant"?

I suppose it depends on what you want in and from a dominant - many homeless people are basically people who have difficulty compromising, for various reasons, which in other contexts we might consider a dominant trait.



Endivius -> RE: Does Dominance Imply Order? (10/21/2011 10:22:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos


@Endivius: Where did you get health and finances from? We're talking about housekeeping, not bookkeeping, and certainly not medical care. Is that another connection people are drawing? Messy house = no idea where money goes? Cuz I actually keep most of my money in the bank or the market; no danger of losing it under a stack of mail or something.




I percieved her question to be much broader than just relative to the cleanliness of a person's home or thier organizational skills. Although I see most everyone here has focused on that particular aspect of her question.

quote:


.... do you wonder about their ability to control other things in their life including you?



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