RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine...

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tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:22:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl How about this. You prove a paint gun was used. The paint came from somewhere. Even without the presence of a paintball gun, you still have protesters throwing rocks and bottles. That's assault too. Oh poor babies. Plastic bottles of water people said were thrown by teenagers... and the protesters told them to stop. Shocking huh.

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:27:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Oh poor babies. Plastic bottles of water people said were thrown by teenagers... and the protesters told them to stop. Shocking huh. Assault is assault. It starts with little things and then escalates.

tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:31:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl They didnt have a search warrant to go through and trash peoples stuff. In fact, what they did to peoples possessions there was illegal. They don't need a search warrant to disperse protesters. The fact that the protesters put up tents doesn't mean it was their home. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And, if I shoot someone within my home who is unable to defend themselves and leave them no exit, its murder. If you shoot someone who is assaulting you after you've told them to leave it's called self defense. I have yet to see proof of who started the altercation. You keep insisting it was the protesters. Your proof is needed.

Hillwilliam -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:33:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam As usual, you don't pay a FUCKING bit of attention to what I write. I have consistently said it's 1-5% that give the rest of the police a bad name and asked why they are protected. You then give a bunch of ACLU inspired platitudes about innocent until proven guilty. You asked for examples and I supplied them and now Im a cop hater. If I'm a cop hater, why did I fucking TRAIN them to help them survive? Here's the undeniable fact: neither of us has all the information about the incident and neither of us was there. The difference between us is that you are ready to condemn cop you've never met, nor even seen despite the absence of those facts. I am not. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Second claim. I have yet to see a shred of evidence that the protestors were violent. Only your claims. How violent can someone be when you wake them up at 4AM and roust them? Evidently violent enough to throw rocks, bottles and paint. I knew one guy when I was in basic training that you couldn't wake up by shaking. If you did, you'd likely be punched. People are capable of a lot in the right (or wrong) circumstances. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I'm calling bullshit on your last claim. You were referring to the marine that was hurt with your 'dirtbag' remark and you damn well know it and now you're backpedaling. I really don't care what you "call bullshit" on. You aren't me. Only I know what I said and about whom I said it. You can believe it or not. It makes no differenceto me. The only person I have seen that looks like a dirtbag is the guy in the photo. Kinda hard to make a reference to someone I've not seen. (Well, hard for me but not apparently you since you still condemn the cop without all the facts.) Once again, I'll type slowly so you can understand. I have not condemned any individual. I have said that there is sufficient evidence to indicate that a police officer improperly used his weapon which critically injured a civilian and as a result he should be investigated. You support him 100% and say there was no problem. Let him go. Have you figured out that it is exactly that attitude that makes civilians distrustful of the police? You claim that the protestors were violent and neither have I seen, nor have you shown a scrap of evidence. There are only your claims and you weren't there and the claims of the OPD which has already been caught in lies. You call a marine that you have never seen a 'dirtbag' but you castigate me for saying that an officer acted improperly because OMFG, I have never seen him. The Oakland police have been caught in lies. When you catch a suspect in a lie, do you give him the benefit of a doubt? Do you think they should be given the benefit of a doubt after being caught lying? If they weren't spoiling to kick ass, why did they go in at 0400? That has been proven militarily as the best time to launch an attack as the human body is at its lowest ebb. They've known that since the days of Alexander.

tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:39:55 PM)
Its his circle jerk, Hill. Frankly, he is full of shit, we all know it, and I am done with him.

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:45:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have yet to see proof of who started the altercation. You keep insisting it was the protesters. Your proof is needed. So is yours since you're also one of the ones condemning the cops. Where's your proof that they weren't assaulted as they indicated?

tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:51:50 PM)
I didnt condemn all the cops... which is what you are so full of shit about. I agreed with Quan that 99% did their job. Your refusal to even admit SOMEONE got out of control is what is pissing people off. But you continue to believe the cops are all good and pure and filled with puppy dog tails just there to help us all out. And when they come for you.... [;)]

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:55:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Once again, I'll type slowly so you can understand. I have not condemned any individual. I have said that there is sufficient evidence to indicate that a police officer improperly used his weapon which critically injured a civilian and as a result he should be investigated. And the evidence is.....? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You support him 100% and say there was no problem. Let him go. Wrong again. I've repeatedly said it's possible but we should wait til all the facts come in. You on the other hand have done nothing but bash the nameless, faceless cop based on a short video. I believe that qualifies as condemnation. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You claim that the protestors were violent and neither have I seen, nor have you shown a scrap of evidence. The cops made the claim, actually. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You call a marine that you have never seen a 'dirtbag' but you castigate me for saying that an officer acted improperly because OMFG, I have never seen him. Actually, I have seen the dirtbag in question. A photo of him looking like a tatted up, pierced dirtbag was already posted. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam The Oakland police have been caught in lies. By whom? You? You do realize there's more than one cop on the force, yes? Everyone may not know what everyone else did or didn't do. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If they weren't spoiling to kick ass, why did they go in at 0400? That has been proven militarily as the best time to launch an attack as the human body is at its lowest ebb. That's also the time of least resistance. Go in when everyone's asleep and you can, hopefully, minimize the chances of a conflict.

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 6:59:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I didnt condemn all the cops... which is what you are so full of shit about. I agreed with Quan that 99% did their job. Your refusal to even admit SOMEONE got out of control is what is pissing people off. But you continue to believe the cops are all good and pure and filled with puppy dog tails just there to help us all out. You did, actually, condemn them when you made snap judgements with no more facts than the rest of us had. And I've already stipulated two....possibly three times now that it was possible that the cop was wrong. However, I wasn't there and will not bash the guy without all the facts. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And when they come for you.... [;)] It will be never. I obey the law and follow the instructions of officers when given. I have yet to be beaten, shot, pepper sprayed, or taxed by police.

Hillwilliam -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:06:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Once again, I'll type slowly so you can understand. I have not condemned any individual. I have said that there is sufficient evidence to indicate that a police officer improperly used his weapon which critically injured a civilian and as a result he should be investigated. And the evidence is.....? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You support him 100% and say there was no problem. Let him go. Wrong again. I've repeatedly said it's possible but we should wait til all the facts come in. You on the other hand have done nothing but bash the nameless, faceless cop based on a short video. I believe that qualifies as condemnation. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You claim that the protestors were violent and neither have I seen, nor have you shown a scrap of evidence. The cops made the claim, actually. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You call a marine that you have never seen a 'dirtbag' but you castigate me for saying that an officer acted improperly because OMFG, I have never seen him. Actually, I have seen the dirtbag in question. A photo of him looking like a tatted up, pierced dirtbag was already posted. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam The Oakland police have been caught in lies. By whom? You? You do realize there's more than one cop on the force, yes? Everyone may not know what everyone else did or didn't do. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If they weren't spoiling to kick ass, why did they go in at 0400? That has been proven militarily as the best time to launch an attack as the human body is at its lowest ebb. That's also the time of least resistance. Go in when everyone's asleep and you can, hopefully, minimize the chances of a conflict. Evidence I showed earlier. Either the guy aimed high or he makes Elmer fudd look like a sniper. I condemn the actions of someone that is quite possibly incompetent or unfit to own a badge. You've supported him 100% and now you're flip flopping. Ive already said that the police have been shown to have lied about other things on the report. Are you going to give them a pass on that? If paintballs had been fired, don't you think the mayor would have pictures all over the place of uniforms and/or shields with splat marks instead of having to deal with damage control? Again, no evidence. One of the most damning things you could come up with is a guy fawke mask lying on the ground. WOOOOOOOOOOO MOST professionals hold themselves and their peers to a higher standard than the general public (ok, maybe not lawyers). You obviously don't because you have done nothing but give these people a pass and present innuendo and heresay to make the protestors look bad and justify an action that is potentially deadly while calling a marine who you don't know a dirtbag. Once again. This is the attitude that makes people mistrust the police. You dont hold yourselves to a higher standard or even the same standard as the public and I find that shameful.

Hillwilliam -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:08:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Oh poor babies. Plastic bottles of water people said were thrown by teenagers... and the protesters told them to stop. Shocking huh. Assault is assault. It starts with little things and then escalates. Like a headshot with a teargas cannister?

tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:10:00 PM)
quote: You did, actually, condemn them when you made snap judgements with no more facts than the rest of us had. And I've already stipulated two....possibly three times now that it was possible that the cop was wrong. However, I wasn't there and will not bash the guy without all the facts. You are looking for boogey men where none exist. I agree with her assessment of the "99%" http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3900181 In this thread no less! Hill was right, you dont read... you assume.

tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:11:10 PM)
quote: It will be never. I obey the law and follow the instructions of officers when given. I have yet to be beaten, shot, pepper sprayed, or taxed by police. I havent either and I break laws everyday... everyone does. [;)]

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:35:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Evidence I showed earlier. Either the guy aimed high or he makes Elmer fudd look like a sniper. That's not evidence. That's your incorrect assumptions based on limited data. It's your assertion that those are the only two possibilities. They aren't. There's tons of factors at play in a situation like this. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I condemn the actions of someone that is quite possibly incompetent or unfit to own a badge. Again, based on limited data. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You've supported him 100% and now you're flip flopping. Wrong again, Senator. And this ain't a political debate, so I don't get where the flip-flopping comes in. I simply said (and will say it again) that I'm more apt to take the word of someone doing a thankless job protecting people every day than I am to take the word of mask-wearing people who assault cops and then act like the victim. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Ive already said that the police have been shown to have lied about other things on the report. Right. You have said they "lied." you have yet to prove it. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam One of the most damning things you could come up with is a guy fawke mask lying on the ground. WOOOOOOOOOOO On the ground? Hardly. I've seen countless news pieces since this whole "movement" began and have seen those masks frequently in addition to other methods of identity concealment. Stop being facetious. It doesn't help your case.

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:42:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Like a headshot with a teargas cannister? No. "Headshot" implies intent. I'm still waiting to see evidence of that "intent," but I dontthink it exists. Here's another hole in your "intent" theory. When shooting at human targets, cops are trained to aim for the torso, as it presents the biggest, easiest target to hit. So even if there was "intent" to hit a person with a non-lethal round, the head would not have been the target. And for another hole: we don't even know it was a tear gas round. It could easily have been a bean bag round, which are intended to be fired at people. However, the previous statement about aiming for the torso would still apply, as that would be the ideal, non-lethal yet effective place to hit a person with such a round.

tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:50:11 PM)
IF they aimed for the torso, they obviously missed. So much for their training. quote: A bean bag round can severely injure or kill in a wide variety of ways. They have caused around a death a year since their introduction in the U.S.[2] A round can hit the chest, break the ribs and send the broken ribs into the heart. A shot to the head can break the nose, crush the larynx or even break the neck or skull of the subject. This is why many officers are taught to aim for the extremities when using a bean bag round. A strike in the abdominal area can cause internal bleeding or strike the solar plexus which can disrupt breathing or heartbeat, but such a hit is generally safer than most other areas as well as presenting a larger target than an extremity. Fatalities are occasionally the result of mistaking other shotgun rounds for bean bags.[2] Ban bags are not intended to be aimed except at extremities. What happened?

errantgeek -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:52:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror The cops made the claim, actually. See, here's your problem. You're taking cops' claims as indisputable evidence in this matter. Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed flashbangs were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying. Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed bean bag rounds were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying. Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed rubber shot and bullets were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying. Despite the fact the protesters initially claimed flashbangs, bean bags and rubber shot were used against them, and they provided evidence to back their statements up. You're claiming the word of demonstrated liars is sacrosanct, simply on the fact they're LEO's. When in fact, a clear, demonstrable credibility gap exists between the police and the protesters in this case. And you're the one that's claiming others are being willfully obtuse in this matter? Give me a fucking break.

tazzygirl -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 7:53:17 PM)
But dont you know the cops are never wrong? ever? never ever?

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 8:08:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl IF they aimed for the torso, they obviously missed. So much for their training. Ban bags are not intended to be aimed except at extremities. What happened? And can you hit exactly what you're aiming at 100% of the time? Have you even ever fired a weapon?

DarqueMirror -> RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marine... (10/28/2011 8:11:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: errantgeek See, here's your problem. You're taking cops' claims as indisputable evidence in this matter. No, I'm just lending the word of a sworn peace officer more credibility than a mask-wearing protester who would incite a riot bythrowing things at uniformed police officers. quote: ORIGINAL: errantgeek Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed flashbangs were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying. Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed bean bag rounds were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying. Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed rubber shot and bullets were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying. I still have yet to see any evidence of these claims you claim the cops made.

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