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RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 6:24:37 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats what you are afraid of.
Thats what conservatives are afraid of.
Thats what democrats are afraid of.
Thats what big business is afraid of.

Dont know why all of you are afraid... its what you have been begging for, demanding, pushing and working towards for a long, long time.

Now that its on the horizon, you are screaming in terror.

Dont, you asked for it.


I'm not afraid of it at all. I'm waiting for it with popcorn ready to pop. I'll watch the protesters get what's coming to them all night if the news crews stay with it that long.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 7:46:48 AM   
leonine


Posts: 409
Joined: 11/3/2009
From: [email protected]
Status: offline 		Non-violence works if (a) there is an alternative, a violent movement dangerous enough to scare the authorities into looking for someone nice to talk to, and/or (b) there is an international audience being favourably impressed by the non-violent protests and bringing pressure to bear on the government to listen and to stop violently suppressing it.

The most successful have both.  Ghandi, MLK and Mandella had big fanclubs abroad, but they were talked to because the authorities were afraid the alternative was the fire next time.  If there hadn't been any threat of violent uprising, and if there had been the sort of media blockade that Syria is using and that Israel clamps on Gaza when things get hairy, the police would have happily gone on clubbing and shooting them till they ran out of protesters.

This gives OWS a problem.  Here in the UK we've had some brief but scary popular riots, which is one reason our authorities are walking very carefully around the Occupy camps, but there is no comparable threat of popular violence in the US to make OWS look good.  And since it's an international movement by intention, no government is going to speak up for another country's Occupy movement when they've got troubles with their own.  Cynically, the best strategy for OWS would be to continue holding to non-violence, but to moonlight as some kind of undercover terrorist movement, sending letter bombs and such, to convince the authorities that there are worse alternatives.  (OK, that wouldn't work because the camps are undoubtedly thick with undercover cops, so they'd never get away with it, but it's a thought.)


_____________________________

Leo9


Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 9:51:34 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Is Rall right? Do the Occupiers need to recognize violence, and the credible threat of violence, as legitimate tools in the box?


Were jefferson,adams,washington et al right?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 9:53:33 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

They are violence by proxy, give these punks a little more maturity and enough power and there will be a civil war, blood flowing through the streets


Have you ever considered taking a class in english or logic?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/6/2011 10:27:45 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 9:58:23 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Screaming in terror?

Your strawman arguments grow more pathetic every day taz, a sure sign that you cant debate the actual facts.

I am still waiting for you to enter into a discussion on any topic. All you do is run your mouth about your talking points with absoluely no effort made at discussion.

These punks are preying on each other


Cite please

and doing a lot of harm to the far lefts already faltering movement,

In what alternative reality is this happening?

I am happy to see them screaming at soccer moms and janitors at these banks. Shivering in the snow... rioting in the most far left cities in the land.

cite please

More than anything, this far left debacle is highly amusing to me.

Then why all the "high angsiety" at their efforts?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:08:15 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

I'll watch the protesters get what's coming to them all night if the news crews stay with it that long.


Did you feel the same way about the "boston massacre "?

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:10:03 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Did you feel the same way about the "boston massacre "?


Considering how that was hundreds of years ago, I wasn't alive then.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:21:37 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If anything should cite the OWS to violence, this is it...

quote:

In the middle of an Occupy Chicago teach-in this week, traders at the Chicago Board of Trade dumped several sheets of paper on top of the heads of protesters below. Demonstrators were angered to find out they were showered with employment applications for McDonald’s. RELATED: Chicago Board Of Trade Taunts Occupy Chicago: “We Are The 1%” “Real class acts, the Chicago Board of Trade,” tweeted Occupy Chicago. “This week, it’s McDonald’s job applications they litter from the windows. Soulless place.”

I personally this it's hilarious.



Why do you think that protestors littering is a bad thing and the cops should arrest them for it when cbt litters you approve. You are a perfect example of the hipocracy of cops.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/6/2011 10:24:55 AM >

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:24:23 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Raining McDonald's applications on them from above. I fucking love it!



Why do you like it when cbt litters but are incensed when ows does?
Isn't this called partisan hypocracy?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/6/2011 10:28:10 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:29:42 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Did you feel the same way about the "boston massacre "?


Considering how that was hundreds of years ago, I wasn't alive then.




Why would you have to have been alive at the time of the boston massacre to have an opinion about it?

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:31:45 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Employed as what, Tazzy? Professional activists? If they are employed, why are they hanging around the plaza in the middle of a weekday afternoon? "Get a fucking job," works just fine.



We find it difficult to believe that dick does not know dick about the unemployment picture in the u.s.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/6/2011 10:33:10 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:32:13 AM   
leonine


Posts: 409
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Please take the time to read Ted Rall's column at the link. I have some profound philosophical differences with him, but he's smart, straightforward, and funny. Sometimes, he is also dead on right. I think this is one of those times, whether I agree with his goals or not.

The Occupier�s Choice: Violence or Failure


quote:

The Occupy movement can wind up in one of two ways:

Failure.

Or success, partly via the occasional use of violence and/or the credible threat of violence that results from those sporadic outbursts.


As Jerry Rubin supposedly said, "a movement that isn't willing to take casualties, isn't worth shit."

Is Rall right? Do the Occupiers need to recognize violence, and the credible threat of violence, as legitimate tools in the box?

During one of the UK's recent riots an NBC reporter asked a rioter "Does rioting achieve anything?"  He replied "You're talking to me now, aren't you?"


_____________________________

Leo9


Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:37:26 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Raining McDonald's applications on them from above. I fucking love it!



Why do you like it when cbt litters but are incensed when ows does?
Is't this called partisan hypocracy?



Have I mentioned litter, Thompson? Now, I have brought up the complaints of public masturbation by the protesters, both literal and figurative, and speculated that they might run into problems with street people getting in on the freebies and creating problems (as reported in today's LA Times). I suppose jerking off could be considered littering, depending on what you do with the kleenex, but that's quite a stretch.

Please provide a link to me being incensed at the litter, or drop me from your shotgun attempts to get someone to pay attention to you.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 11/6/2011 10:39:03 AM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 10:57:01 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Why would you have to have been alive at the time of the boston massacre to have an opinion about it?


Well considering that my comment that you quoted referenced watching the violence all night long if the *news crews* stay with it all night long, it's kinda hard to feel that way about the Boston Massacre since A) wasn't alive then and B) no TVs then. Ergo, I couldn't have "watched it all night long" since neither I nor the news crews were around then.

Honestly, try to think a little more before you ask these questions.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 11:08:01 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Raining McDonald's applications on them from above. I fucking love it!



Why do you like it when cbt litters but are incensed when ows does?
Is't this called partisan hypocracy?



Have I mentioned litter, Thompson? Now, I have brought up the complaints of public masturbation by the protesters, both literal and figurative, and speculated that they might run into problems with street people getting in on the freebies and creating problems (as reported in today's LA Times). I suppose jerking off could be considered littering, depending on what you do with the kleenex, but that's quite a stretch.

Please provide a link to me being incensed at the litter, or drop me from your shotgun attempts to get someone to pay attention to you.



So your position is that you have no problem what so ever with any llitter left by th ows folks?
or
Is it your position that you dance well?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 11:11:08 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

Please provide a link to me being incensed at the litter, or drop me from your shotgun attempts to get someone to pay attention to you.


If you find yourself emotionally unwilling or intellectually unable to have a discussion with me dick you know where the block button is dick.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 11:17:53 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Why would you have to have been alive at the time of the boston massacre to have an opinion about it?


Well considering that my comment that you quoted referenced watching the violence all night long if the *news crews* stay with it all night long, it's kinda hard to feel that way about the Boston Massacre since A) wasn't alive then and B) no TVs then. Ergo, I couldn't have "watched it all night long" since neither I nor the news crews were around then.

Honestly, try to think a little more before you ask these questions.



You are being obtuse.
you said:

I'll watch the protesters get what's coming to them all night if the news crews stay with it that long.

I said:
Did you feel the same way about the "boston massacre "?
The question you seem to have missed is:
would you have enjoyed watching the protesters at the "boston massacre" get what they had comming to them?




(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 11:31:20 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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There will eventually have to be violence, for even more to take notice and look into all of the issues. Yes there will be those that marginalize it, but the diversity in the movement speaks volumes to me.

Even if this violence is locking arms while stand and allowing the police beat them into submission, violence will have to be done to keep the momentum going.

I just wonder what is going to happen when someone sets some firecrackers off in a tense situation, and we have another Kent State type incident.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 11:43:09 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Thompson, a discussion does not mean that you make up stupid shit to claim I said or believe, and then keep challenging me to defend it.

Yes, I do know right where that button is.

Dismissed.







_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Making the case, FOR violence in OWS - 11/6/2011 11:51:31 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You are being obtuse.


You'd surely know since that's all you are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
would you have enjoyed watching the protesters at the "boston massacre" get what they had comming to them?


Comparing the current protesters to the ones in the Boston Massacre is like comparing apples to oranges.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 80
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