Who is reasonable

Who is reasonable (Full Version)

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kdsub -> Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 6:36:52 AM)
Occupy St. Louis will be ending in the next few days….at least occupy Kiener Plaza between 10PM and 6AM. The St. Louis Mayor in an attempt to deal with citizen complaints about occupiers and guarantee their rights to protest will be enforcing park hours. The Mayor says the protesters may assemble along with their signs during normal park hours. He has no desire to prohibit their right of protest but feels he must address the complaints of St. Louis citizens...it is their park too. The occupiers have said they will not leave peacefully. Again who is reasonable Butch

tazzygirl -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 7:24:26 AM)
Link please.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 7:28:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub The occupiers have said they will not leave peacefully. Gosh....more "peaceful" protesters threatening to not abide by the law or go "peacefully." How...shocking.

midmichiganguy -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 7:36:51 AM)
Amazing how that works! But bear in mind that these are the same protestors who claim that public destruction of windows, vandalism of vehicles and property and disruption of everyone elses life is not violence.... This is the similiar type of ridiculous and silly argument my feminist co-worker makes when she blatantly tells me that only men can be sexist or bigoted despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

tazzygirl -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 8:26:07 AM)
quote: But bear in mind that these are the same protestors who claim that public destruction of windows, vandalism of vehicles and property and disruption of everyone elses life is not violence Bear in mind that the Oakland Occupiers stood between Black Bloc and Whole Foods. http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Anarchists-Disrupt-Occupy-Oakland-Strike-133119143.html Watch the video... you tell me who is doing the damage.

Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 9:01:52 AM)
I can't stand them either. Near where I am in another part of the world they are acting like cunts by preventing the well known Eyre Square Christmas market of the city of Galway from taking place which brings in a lot of very much needed money to the local economy by attracting hundreds of thousands of shoppers. Why do they refuse to move? Apparently because "private interests" will gain from the market. No concern then for the large number of jobs that struggling retailers provide which the market would help preserve...

midmichiganguy -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 9:02:54 AM)
Okay, so there was a singular instance where someone in the Oakland Occupiers realized what was happening and tried to stop the anarchists from destroying property. Fine, I acknowledge that and give them their due for that. Every dog has their day. However physical property damage and group seperation aside, violence does not necessarily stop at the material level. What about the economic violence these protestors in Oaklland and across the nation are causing to small business owners who are losing customers? Who are having to lay off employees because these occupy groups are driving people away? What about the economic violence that is being brought to people who only want to work and support their family but because of the occupy groups, their company had to downturn their employee numbers and now they are out of work? What about the economic violence created then? I am not talking about the idiocy of trying to hurt large financial corporations instead of the politicians who are the most responsible but rather the violence against the small business owner? The everyday entrepreneur? Bloomberg: Occupy Wall Street ‘Really Hurting Small Businesses, Families’ http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/02/local-elected-officials-to-occupy-wall-street-protesters-clean-up-your-act-and-quiet-down/ How ‘Occupy Wall Street’ is Hurting Small Business http://www.lendio.com/blog/occupy-wall-street-hurting-small-business/ Wall Street Protest Hurts the 'Little Guys' Nearby http://businessonmain.msn.com/browseresources/articles/smallbusinesstrends.aspx?cp-documentid=31010770#fbid=mRvT2MVpMd5

EternalHoH -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 9:05:56 AM)
Bringing up a map of the place, all I see surrounding Kiener Plaza are strip mall businesses, an old courthouse, a couple of banks, a trade association HQ building, a Hilton hotel (filled with "local citizens"?? seriously?), and some chain restaurants that otherwise would be closed and not be doing business between the hours of 10 pm and 6 am. So I have to ask, just which "local citizens" who believe "its their park too" are being inconvenienced by having to deal with protestor 'congestion' between those wee hours? I see a 'reasonable request' laced with bullshit.

midmichiganguy -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 9:18:07 AM)
Quote from my earlier posting: "What about the economic violence these protestors in Oakland and across the nation are causing to small business owners who are losing customers?" So we went from Oakland, to Wall Street, and now to St. Louis, MO? Can you seriously tell me that people who are not involved in these protests are NOT avoiding these areas during normal business hours? I know that in my state capital of Lansing (near where I work) we have had several small business owner meetings on what to do about their loss of business. People are avoiding the area; Lansing Community College, MSU, Davenport, and Cooley Law students are going elsewhere for their afternoon and evening meals, and local businesses not so directly affiliated with the food industry such as print shops, tourism shops, and travel agencies (just to name a few) are also hurting. AND, this is only a small demonstration group there! So you tell me that local and small community businesses are not hurting by something like this and I will call you blind for not seeing how this type of impact hurts everyone overall.

EternalHoH -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 9:25:57 AM)
Why is using economic leverage considered "violence"? When professional sports teams and other businesses boycotted Arizona on account of its immigration laws, how was that economic action considered 'violence'? When church groups call up a television network and tell them about their boycott of advertisers due to the profanity in programming, is that 'violence'? Or is it simply using the power of the purse?

tazzygirl -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 9:26:23 AM)
Still, some area businesses say sales have picked up since the protest began. Foot traffic is up. A false rumor that rock band Radiohead would play a surprise show on a recent Friday drew hundreds — if not thousands — of people, while many more tourists and onlookers pass through in droves each day. http://businessonmain.msn.com/browseresources/articles/smallbusinesstrends.aspx?cp-documentid=31010770#fbid=DHj_S92gI_0 This link had no specifics at all. http://www.lendio.com/blog/occupy-wall-street-hurting-small-business/ And this one ... Enter, the Milk Street Cafe. It opened in June and manager Mark Epstein says business was growing steadily — until crowd control barriers appeared seven weeks ago, choking off access, reports CBS 2′s Brown. “As of yesterday we were down more than 30 percent than the weeks before the barriers went up,” Epstein said, referring to the café’s finances. “If their protest is gonna hurt businesses they’re kind of being hypocritical, but I just wish they would have thought about it more, especially considering this is a new business for us,” Cepeda said. Protesters who spend their days and nights railing against the injustices of unemployment acknowledge the irony, but say they don’t feel responsible. “We did not put those barricades in front of his store. We’re not trying to stop his business. In fact, we want him to stay in business because we know that it’s hard,” protester Angel Rodriguez said. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/02/local-elected-officials-to-occupy-wall-street-protesters-clean-up-your-act-and-quiet-down/

thompsonx -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 1:03:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras I can't stand them either. Near where I am in another part of the world they are acting like cunts "Cunts"????? by preventing the well known Eyre Square Christmas market of the city of Galway from taking place which brings in a lot of very much needed money to the local economy by attracting hundreds of thousands of shoppers. Why do they refuse to move? Apparently because "private interests" will gain from the market. No concern then for the large number of jobs that struggling retailers provide which the market would help preserve... We have to ask ourselves why it is that suddenly the interest of the small bussinessman is alligned with wall street and bond street? The word disingenuous comes to mind.

kdsub -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 1:08:58 PM)
That area is the approach to the gateway arch and is heavily used by tourists and the local citizens coming downtown. During the world series it was not a problem and there were many people in the area but I’m sure a lot of the complaints came then…But… that is not the case now. The mayor did not say who or where the complaints came from. He is a Democratic mayor as is the city so I don’t believe the proposed crackdown is politically motivated. He did say this crackdown would be different in that the protesters would be asked to remove their tents and would be given a reasonable time to comply. I am asking… can the protesters get their points across between 6am and 10pm at night? What real advantage is it to have a tent city between 10pm and 6 am. Butch

thompsonx -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 1:11:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Occupy St. Louis will be ending in the next few days….at least occupy Kiener Plaza between 10PM and 6AM. The St. Louis Mayor in an attempt to deal with citizen complaints about occupiers and guarantee their rights to protest will be enforcing park hours. The Mayor says the protesters may assemble along with their signs during normal park hours. He has no desire to prohibit their right of protest but feels he must address the complaints of St. Louis citizens...it is their park too. Let me see if I understand you correctly butch. The ows people want to be in the park from 10pm to 6am when the park s normally closed. You seem to be upset that the rest of the people who would want to use the park during these hours are being denied it's use by the ows people but you state that it is the mayor who has decreed to keep the park closed during those hours. You are not being very consistant here. The occupiers have said they will not leave peacefully. Again who is reasonable You don't seem to know much about how reasonable the folks who wrote the first ammendment were do you? Butch

thompsonx -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 1:12:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub The occupiers have said they will not leave peacefully. Gosh....more "peaceful" protesters threatening to not abide by the law or go "peacefully." How...shocking. Kinda like the "boston massacre"...whodathunket

kdsub -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 1:21:54 PM)
quote: Link please. Here is one tazzy...There were many interviews with the protesters and Mayor that were live on TV but are not shown here...but it is the same story overall. Butch

tazzygirl -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 2:08:21 PM)
Thank you. I read that one earlier. Just a question... where was the threat of violence?

kdsub -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 2:20:20 PM)
Tazzy I did not say violence...They said they would not leave peacefully in live interviews...in the written article some protesters said they would not leave... This will leave the City no choice but to evict them with force if necessary...but the Mayor wants to avoid a confrontation. Butch

tazzygirl -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 2:39:31 PM)
Ok... that sentence can be taken a couple of ways, depending on how its read. Everything I have seen is that they wont leave, and if they are forced to leave, they will return. They have the right to assemble. The city has the right to make rules. If they dont leave, the city will have them arrested. A slap on the wrist, and they are back to the same place. The problem I am seeing is the force. Is force necessary because someone told you no?

Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 4:44:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras I can't stand them either. Near where I am in another part of the world they are acting like cunts "Cunts"????? I stand by the wording I used because I think they are acting with contempt. quote: quote: by preventing the well known Eyre Square Christmas market of the city of Galway from taking place which brings in a lot of very much needed money to the local economy by attracting hundreds of thousands of shoppers. Why do they refuse to move? Apparently because "private interests" will gain from the market. No concern then for the large number of jobs that struggling retailers provide which the market would help preserve... We have to ask ourselves why it is that suddenly the interest of the small bussinessman is alligned with wall street and bond street? The word disingenuous comes to mind. I don't quite get your point why small and medium sized businesses should be implicated but the point is that retailers who have taken a devastating hit for the last few years are just surviving by a thread and could very easily go under with a poor yield at Christmas. It would result in very real hardship for many that loose their jobs in what is mainly a retail district anyway.

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