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RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 11:26:20 AM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
I don’t think its quite fair to equate micromanagement with immaturity.
Some people enjoy it. Some don’t. Some prefer well-spoken submissives. Some prefer their submissives only speak at certain times. If I put my submissive under a silence order, that doesn’t mean I don’t think he is adult and capable of saying the right thing at the right time. It simply means he and I enjoy the particular dynamic of a silence order. Same thing applies if I want to control my submissive’s bathroom habits.

Just because a couple enjoys the dynamics of micro-management, doesn’t mean that the submissive doesn’t know how/when to use the bathroom, shower, talk, walk, eat, sleep… or that the submissive lacks competence as an adult. It simply means the two of them enjoy micro-management. It works for them. It doesn’t work for you. That’s why everyone is different. It’s ok to see those differences, but I don’t think it’s ok to equate micro-management dynamics with not being a responsible adult, lacking intelligence, or not being competent.

I’m not personally into a lot of micro-management, but if it works for others, that’s great for them. I just don’t think we should be making the assumption that micro-management activities are in some way correlated to intelligence, maturity, competence, or responsibility.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 11:27:01 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I guess I could fit in a box that was large enough and for the right One..smiles

Erin.

At the end of the day if your voice is not heard those of us who have similiar feelings will not feel like we fit in either. Express yourself and there will be some that identify and those who do not. I post things for those who identify with me but do not post for whatever reason. I love to read your posts because I often identify with your perspective, don't abandon us!...smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 11:32:05 AM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline 		After weeks like this last one, Erin.. I couldn't agree with you more.  There is a whole other planet that some of us are on than others.

I've almost gotten to the point where I don't even want to associate myself with BDSM because of peoples insistance on following some archane or inane set of rules and regulations because "Thats what BDSM is".  If a Dominant can't think for themselves, and needs someone elses' list of rules to "dominate" then we're probably not going to work out.

I'm just me.  Dominant or sub.. I'm just me.

When I run into subs that have been "active" in the "lifestyle".. which Me and Mine have begun to term "mainstream".. and come to serve willingly out of a true inner need, only to find them utterly terrified.  Something is wrong.

I find that I dont fit in any box.  And I'm just fine with that.




(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 11:38:02 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
No, you don't fit into the box.  Because no one REALLY fits into a box. 


"Box" on my part was a bad choice of words. I guess what I am trying to express is that even though this is a community of submissives, sometimes it seems like I am so far from what appears to be the general concensus that I feel as though I might as well be from another planet.

(and yup, the chances are good that I may have indeed started something that was at least similar....it is a feeling that seems to come more often as time goes by)


 I understand to a degree the feeling of not quite coming from the general consensus. I don't have a problem with that at all as I'm very used to it but it can be a little isolating, speaking for myself.

I read so often about the *need* to serve etc. and * being submissive to the core*...  and so on. I am not those things, and still find that being a slave suits me as a choice of relationship.

Someone ( Sunshine) stated that they weren't *slave material*....as if it means that you nosedive into some mindless serving wench type existence.( Correct me, please, if I have misunderstood what was implied but that was the inference I took from it)

The way you describe yourself sounds lovely, sensible, responsible and dare I say it .....adult.

agirl



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 11:42:12 AM   
ADomDoc


Posts: 312
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
All of my life I have been in relationships with Dominant men. I am fulfilled in these relationships because at my core I have a genuine desire to please my partner. Their power over me has not come through force. ... Their Dominant role has come to them in the same way that my submissive role has come to me….it is who they are in their most natural state.

When I come on these boards some days I walk away feeling like I just don’t belong here. As I read the thoughts and words of MANY of the submissives here I find that I just can NOT relate, and I walk away feeling like, if that is what it takes to be able to consider yourself submissive, then I am clearly not one.  I find comfort in the words of a few who seem to emit an echo of what resonates inside of me, but they seem to be the exception and certainly not the rule. ....

I could not be fulfilled in a relationship with someone who has some inner need to be a control freak and micromanage my life. ...

In reading the advice that is given on these boards frequently, I come across things that make me wonder if some people in this lifestyle really believe that a submissive can not function without being constantly told how to. Things like having to rely upon your Dom to tell you when or how you can talk, rely upon your Dom to make you lose weight, rely upon your Dom, rely upon your Dom, rely upon your Dom…it starts to sound like a broken record or a mantra being chanted by mindless drones.

So here is where I just don’t feel like I can fit. It would be a cold day in hell before I found myself involved with a man who thought that I was not intelligent enough or responsible enough to know how to talk, when to talk, when I needed to lose weight, how to look, how to think, how to eat, when I need to go to the bathroom, when I need to shower, or what appropriate or inappropriate behavior is. Holy crap I’m grown up for gosh sakes.

I serve because as I said, I have a genuine desire that drives me to do so, not because I want to be involved in some cool and popular role playing game that has rules dictated by the masses. I WANT to know the different nuances of the partner I am with and I will seek those out through communication. I want to know how he likes his steak cooked, how he likes his feet rubbed, how he prefers to be awakened, how he likes his home environment, the million other things he does like and the million other things he doesn’t. I WANT to know these things BECAUSE I want to please him. I DON’T want him to tell me how to be an adult and take responsibility for myself…that much I’m perfectly capable of doing without his help.


mistoferin ...
Don't judge yourself by the standard of the majority.  you are obviously one of the exceptional subs that the exceptional & confident Doms seek. 

It's sad that so many subs have such low self-esteem & confidence that they can't choose which of 10 identical panties to put on w/o direction from their control freak Doms.  But ... at least they are well-matched for each other.

If you are currently in a relationship with a compatible Dom, then you are one of the lucky D/s couples at the top of the heap.  If not, do NOT settle for less than your perfect Dom ... there are a few out there.  But, like intelligent, self-motivated subs, confident, courteous, intelligent Doms are scarce as hen's teeth. 

Best wishes.
ADomDoc
SanAntonio

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 11:43:34 AM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

I agree - it's possible to be a great sub, and to make your Master/Dom/Top very happy, without losing yourself and your identity.

To each their own.  I've had great Doms, and they didn't expect or want me to be utterly dependent for every little thing. 

mistoferin, you're not alone, there's a lot of us out here.


Ditto to this. Couldn't have said it better myself.

If someone wanted to micromanage my life i'd have a serious problem with it. I'm and adult with a brain and can make some decsions very well on my own.

I like having certain tasks and routines that are to be followed but really, i don't need or want someone telling when to get up, eat or pee lol

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 11:46:53 AM   
angelface183


Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		Erin,

I hope that you can see from the responses that you are not alone.  I personally don't believe in boxes or rules for relationships.  The relationship is about the two (or more, don't want the polys jumping down my throat) people that are involved.  What anyone else thinks is inconsequential.  If it works for you and yours, it fits!  'Nuff Said.  Be happy with your choices for they are your own and only you know what it takes to make you happy. 

I really enjoy your posts because I think that you and I have similar views and outlooks on a number of things, so your perspective is always welcomed by me!



_____________________________

"...... all that, a bag of chips AND a pickle!!!"

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 12:16:53 PM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Rules.

  1. There are no rules
  2. See rule one
  3. Be yourself


_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

(in reply to angelface183)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 12:18:18 PM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

Sometimes I wonder if there is a category that would be "Barely Submissive"? 



Well if there is this does not fall under it.

I love when a sub is thoughtful and intuitive.  I mention something I like and its done shows the sub is listening and really wanting to please.  It makes it a very personal service to me.

I enjoy pulling a leash in tight  and having a more formal time with a sub but constant micromanagement wouldn't do it for me so I quite like letting the leash out and seeing the sub express their submission to me with their own slant on it.

Micromanagement works great for some and good for them, the joy is that there are all sorts so we should all be able to find someone who meets our needs and wants.    

In my own experience ( I'm not saying it is fact or anyone else's experience) I have met more fem subs who submit this way and when I see a male sub who is of this mind set I expect them to be snapped up quickly.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 12:30:34 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Using Fast Reply...
 
mistoferin,  you belong.  This lifestyle is so diverse and can be as diverse as those of us living it want it to be.  There is no OTW no matter what anyone says. 
 
I like the comment about "barely submissive" however IMO it doesn't apply to you or others like you (like My mouse) who don't want or need to be micromanaged.  I don't believe it makes you less submissive because you aren't doing anything at all without being commanded or asked to do it.  I personally don't want to have to tell my sub every single thing to do.  As my submissive, she's to make my life easier and more pleasant.  If I have to tell her what to wear, when to pee, what to eat, how to look...oh no, I have a child, thank you, don't need another one.  I think it makes you a natural submissive rather than a created submissive.
 
Like you, she's learned how and what I like for instance, how I take my coffee and she learned that not by having a lesson, but by asking and taking note.  She knows I want coffee as soon as I wake up, I don't have to tell her every morning "go make coffee".  She's attentive to me without being under my feet, and she does that naturally.  There was no rigorous or extensive training, nor will there be.  I don't operate that way.  And I wouldn't want a sub that needed that.  That's not to say that it doesn't work better for someone else, it just doesn't work that way for me. 

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to angelface183)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 2:29:37 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the understanding and kind words. It does encourage me to see that so many can relate.

There are days when I come onto the boards and read the posts and it seems that the feelings expressed are so far removed from any that resonate with me, that I wonder at times if I were to respond to that post if I would even be understood. Yes, even with over 1800 posts, I hold back on many of them because I just don't think that what I have to say on the subject will be of any assistance....mostly because it is just so far off of what the other responders are expressing.



_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 2:34:37 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I hold back on many of them because I just don't think that what I have to say on the subject will be of any assistance....mostly because it is just so far off of what the other responders are expressing.




With all due respect, Mist, those are the posts I would like to see the most.  Diverse thinking allows me to expand my mind and see outside my own perspectives. Please don't hold back. Hell, if you need one, I'll make you a flame retardant suit! (or, maybe just one that I crochet, but the thought is there!)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 2:36:04 PM   
gentlethistle


Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		Erin

I can relate to what you describe.  I know that I am submissive, but I find it hard to consider myself as 'a submissive'. 

Perhaps trying to belong to the 'community of submissives' and expecting to share common ground with all, or even most, is about as useful as wishing to belong to the 'community of cat owners'.  Sure, 'cat people' may kid themselves that they all share certain pre-dispositions that uniquely differentiate themselves from 'dog people', but I suspect there's going to be an awful lot of common ground that has to be ignored to make that conclusion.  Thusly, perhaps with kinky v vanilla or submissive v dominant deliberate divisions.  Surely these things are constructs.  We're wired the way that we're wired.  We add in the life experiences that we've had. But labels are just labels...and people are more than just constituent fibres and washing instructions.

Laura

P.S.  I think I mixed my metaphors a bit and some of the kittens ran in the wash...but maybe the gist survived....

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 2:42:04 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		MissTress,
The way you spoke of your mouse, that really is very much what I was trying to explain. In reading your post the phrase "self motivated submission" is what came to mind. While a Dominant may inspire my feelings of submission, he need not verbally motivate me to "act it out". My submissive actions are my outward expression of the feelings that he inspires. It is my desire to be pleasing that motivates the action, and it is his inspiration that is the catalyst for that desire. If that makes any sense at all.......

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 3:01:42 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

self motivated submission 



I love it!!!  That's a fabulous name for it.  I hope you don't mind if I use it when I'm ready to start looking for sub males again.
 
As far as My mouse is concerned, I couldn't have asked for or created a better sub, for me.  And that's because she is a "self motivated submissive".  I don't know if it's because she's just submissive, or if it's because I inspire her to serve me well, I don't really care, as long as it continues to work for us.



_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 3:18:01 PM   
apb


Posts: 103
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

I love it!!!  That's a fabulous name for it.  I hope you don't mind if I use it when I'm ready to start looking for sub males again.
 
As far as My mouse is concerned, I couldn't have asked for or created a better sub, for me.  And that's because she is a "self motivated submissive".  I don't know if it's because she's just submissive, or if it's because I inspire her to serve me well, I don't really care, as long as it continues to work for us.



i believe it is a combination of both my dear MissTress.  i love to serve you and make you happy ... and i also firmly believe that with a Dominant Partner i am naturally submissive ...

To me there is no greater joy than making my Domme happy ... especially the way Her face lights up when i start acting SAM'y!



_____________________________

~ apb

"This is who I am - you can like it or not. You can love me or leave me 'cos I'm never gonna' stop."
~ Madonna

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 3:58:47 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Fast Reply here...

Erin, you are definitely not alone in feeling like you are the thing that just isn't like the others, the thing that just doesn't belong.  I feel that way all the time, especially when reading boards like these.  I am an adult, I can function fully and capably on my own.  I've been peeing when I need to for nearly 42 years now.  There are things that I would like someone's support while I attempt them, weight loss being one.  I can do it and I can do it for myself, I just need someone that will come take that walk with me or help me make the time to do it.  I certainly don't need someone to tell me that I must lose weight or lose him, whatever.

I'm going to do my level best to please him in everything that I do.  I will ask him how he prefers my hair (I've been blonde before, no big deal) or what clothing he finds most becoming to me.  I don't need for him to make me a list of chores and time limits to get them done in and to call and check on me to see if I'm on schedule.  (Seriously, I had someone tell me he'd do this...I said no thanks). 

The way I see it, my dominant (whoever the lucky bastard is) shouldn't HAVE to manage my every move.  I think that would be a hardship on him, wouldn't it?  If not, then he ain't the lucky bastard

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to apb)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 5:00:50 PM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I know how you feel, I'm so far out of any type of box and I don't fit any of the catagories. I would maybe dye my hair blond, if I thought it would look good, but if he ever told me to eat sitting on the floor, I'd get a blanket, drag him down there with me and make a picnic out of it. I'm a giver, but don't consider myself sub, my partners have also been givers, but not sub. We do things that please each other. Some of which would make a vanilla persons' mouth drop to the floor and say ewwww. 
I'm left searching for a partner, not fitting into the vanilla world, nor this world, but this is so much closer, so here I be.
~big

________________________________
ahhhh I see sounds.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 5:22:55 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I am so far from what appears to be the general concensus that I feel as though I might as well be from another planet.


I have had that all my life as well. As a little girl I was more interested in books, writing, photography and microscopes than dolls, dress up, music or even sports. 

As a teen I hung out with a wild crowd, but I was the caretaker and observer.  They saw me as the good girl and a kind of dorky.  My other set of friends were the honor students, who viewed me as the wild one, the girl they kept around for excitement but never really accepted.  My parents viewed me as the well adjusted, responsible one while my teachers pitied me as the perfectionist overachiever from a "bad" home. It is all relative.

With the other wives, I bit my tongue when they spoke disapprovingly of pornography and absently wondered if my husband's date was going well.

With my mommy friends, I watched them paste labels from baby's first jar of food into a 478 page scrap book and discuss how it broke their heart to go to work every day.  Or the joy they had in not working, and staying home.

Just because I have shifted some of my peer group and friendships to people who identify with bdsm, I do not expect to suddenly find myself on the same planet.  Just maybe in the same solar system.

I have just learned to embrace the outsider feeling and even enjoy it.  I can appreciate people with different attitudes (usually) and it makes that "clicking" with someone who does get you even more satisfying.

When I get concerned is when I seem to be agreeing with everyone around me.  I feel it is a sign I am not paying close enough attention.

Planet Erin seems just fine to me.  Enjoy your individuality.


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: I don't think I "fit" into the box........ - 5/26/2006 6:03:27 PM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

All mine needs to do is mention in passing that he prefers or likes something one way or another and it is tucked away in my brain for future use.  He has told me that I am a good listener as he often doesn't remember even mentioning things that I do for him from this list of "tucked away" things.

However, I do have my own mind, my own spunk and my own sense of being.  No one will ever be able to take away from me the person whom I am.  I'll never be slave material.  And I have no desire to worship at my Dominant's feet.

Now, that being said, I think there are alot of us on this board that are in this category.  Bitatrouble comes to mind immediately.  Sometimes I wonder if there is a category that would be "Barely Submissive"? 



Ahhhh....and you just hit the nail on the proverbial head. Why is it that being your own person would make someone less submissively or "Barely Submissive"? Where does that idea come from?

This may piss some people off but when you live in a relationship with another human being for 3 years, 5 years, 7 years, 10 years, 20 years, etc.....and your driving force is to please that other human being, through all of the good moments and the bad moments.....that IS submission. And I would go so far as to say that is submission at a level that many of the "your Dom will tell you to's" can not even begin to comprehend.

It is perfectly possible to be submissive and retain your own identity as a complete and responsible human being that does not need to be told when to walk, talk, think or pee and how to do those things.


mistoferin, you've just described a biblical house wife.  Isn't BDSM different from that, or are the two really that similar?
 
zuma

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 40
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