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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 5:48:09 AM   
strawberryshake


Posts: 21
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline 		Gosh....this is one of the most bigoted treads I've ever read. 

Those who are anti-trans seem to have a closed-minded, hateful POV and an intolerant disposition.I can understand if something is not your "cup of tea". But why must you say hurtful and potentially destructive things?One thing I can say for sure is that many of you are are misinformed.

@Awareness. How can you speak for all heterosexual men? Have you had this conversation with them?

@NocturnalStalker. Really if you have a problem with transgendered people, why not choose to be neutral rather than offensive by "calling it the way you see it"? If someone called you a "fag" because you have long hair and they see guys with long hair as homosexuals, how would it make you feel? And more important would it be fair?





(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 6:54:12 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strawberryshake

Gosh....this is one of the most bigoted treads I've ever read. 


Hie thee to the politics and religion section at once... this is a fabulous thread by comparison to many!

quote:



Those who are anti-trans seem to have a closed-minded, hateful POV and an intolerant disposition.I can understand if something is not your "cup of tea". But why must you say hurtful and potentially destructive things?One thing I can say for sure is that many of you are are misinformed.



I couldn't agree more, so the discussion has to be, in part, about how to address the issue. Having the likes of stella, hausboy, otters (and any other tg folk who've contributed) join on this thread seems to me, to be a pretty good place to begin.

In the 1980's I met quite a few South African teenagers (at school and college), they'd arrived in the UK from SA with some pretty gobsmackingly fucked up views - what was I to do? Should I have written them off as jackasses, or tried to help them on the understanding that they were as much a product of their environment as I was of mine?

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Profile   Post #: 202
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 6:57:28 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Aww c'mon.... LillyBoPeep - I love your posts, I really do but... "particularly men"????? So less stereo-typically attractive women get looked after and defended by their more attractive sisters do they? Not bloody likely.

Women are every bit as prone to making superficial judgements as men are - and they very often do so.


That's true, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I agree, though, my post does sound a little jerky. But like it or not, there is such a thing as the "gendered gaze," more specifically the male gaze. Media is generally tuned to it, art is, etc. Men grow up within it and don't realize just how much they benefit from that.
If the world were tuned to the female gaze, it would still be just as superficial, certainly, but the subjects/objects would be different.


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Profile   Post #: 203
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 6:59:24 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Bizarrely, I had a long conversation about the "gendered gaze" with someone earlier this week.

No, I don't like it at all, but yes, I have to concede that it's there, and pervasive.

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Profile   Post #: 204
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 7:11:27 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		A small observation regarding appearance:

IT TAKES A LOT OF COURAGE TO BECOME AN UNATTRACTIVE WOMAN.

Crazy, look at your story of the doubletake. There are a lot of MtF trans folk like that out in the world. Women who have "mannish" features, less than perfect skin, whatever. Maybe they weren't handsome as men, either. It's not that big a deal if a man is plain, unappealing, has a big nose, or bad skin. It's a Problem for a woman.



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Profile   Post #: 205
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 7:16:30 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		^^ YES. Men can get away with a lot more slobbishness than women can. =p
This is all part of why MtFs have a hard time -- the minute you step outside, you're judged on your appearance as an acceptable female. =p Men don't have this problem at all.

a little experiment i did this morning was to go to Google Image Search, and type in "feminine" and then "masculine"
When you type in "feminine," look at the results you get.
You have to scroll to the second page of results before you even see anyone who isn't white. =p Seriously. The concept of acceptable femininity is limited to such a ridiculous degree.

Then when you type in "masculine" what do you see? People with different facial structures, different ethnicities, different hair styles and hair lengths.


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Profile   Post #: 206
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 7:17:43 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		<off to google>


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 207
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 7:22:12 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Fuck me sideways. I am absolutely gobsmacked!

Thank-you LillyBoPeep, you've just sparked an afternoon-wastingly long list of thoughts!

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Profile   Post #: 208
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 7:22:30 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Exactly, Lilly!

Maybe it's something you have to be a chick to get right away.

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Profile   Post #: 209
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 7:25:17 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		It's literally something you feel every day. =p I can't imagine what it's like living without it, like men do. 

crazyml -- yay, thoughts are good! ^_^


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"Obey your Master." Metallica


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Profile   Post #: 210
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 8:07:01 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Yea, we don't get to be supermodels either...ain't life a bitch...

And so we have seen in this very topic the major arguments put up by many trans detractors:

Well, I suppose it's okay, as long as you pass.
If you try to pass, you are a liar.
Just get it done will you, you are making us uncomfortable having to look at you not passing.
But don't try to stealth, cause then you are deceiving us.

Yea...we'll get right on that...   




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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 9:05:59 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		*smooches Otter*

glad it wasnt just me that picked up on that.. I was thinking I was seeing that incorrectly, since I am not TG...

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 212
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 9:14:14 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

stella - I've really enjoyed your posts, and I hope you're not offended if I pick on you - Here's the truth... notwithstanding your wonderful personality and sense of humour, my immediate - lower brain - response to seeing your profile pic is "Dude in a wig". I'm not pleased that I have that response, but it would be dishonest of me to deny that I have it.



Crazyml, why should I be offended? Or upset for that matter?

I've already posted at length about my view and my experiences, none of this or these views is anything new to me, in fact I've been called far far worse.

And no, it isn't always pretty, it isn't always pleasant, nor is it always comfortable.

That's just the way it goes. Stuff like this doesn't really bother me any more. It's not like it changes anything.


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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 9:21:39 AM   
SixMore2Go


Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
Status: offline 		So, when I comes back to me home town from wandering the world I'm at the local, and there's this big bird there, not one to stop the traffic but handsome enough, and she looked like she could handle a good tossing about the place, so I chats her up, and we ends up ... well right where I had hoped we would.

So there we are, in the middle of the preliminaries looking like we have a shot at the cup finals, when she stops and says "Connor, the one with the git sister! I knew I recognised you from someplace," And so out comes the whole bleeding story. And a right sad one it was at that, lots of pathos and dealing with brutish buggers. Well let me tell you, it was quite the shock to me, I mean I used to play ball with Jimmie, but now he's Janie and is playing with me very own balls. Well Conn, says I to meself, how are you going to plow this field. I looked at her, and all the bits I fancy on a bird were in the right places. So I plowed that field. More than a few times, I mean what's a fellow to do, her hair was black and her eyes was blue.

It's like my old Grandda, bless his soul, used to say: "If it talks like an Englishman and thinks like an Englishman, then it can die like an Englishman" Oh aye, I knows that's a little violent, but we can get like that when we're sober, and my old Grandda was a bloodthirsty old bugger who didn't much like Englishmen, but its to the point.

So power to you trans types and your whole switcheroo, God loves you, and I do to ... well unless you're from Cork, of course, nobody likes you then.

< Message edited by SixMore2Go -- 11/16/2011 9:22:03 AM >

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 9:29:45 AM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
Status: offline 		Best laugh of the day. Brilliant.

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Profile   Post #: 215
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 9:43:00 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

The concept that science and psychology should figure out "what went wrong" and "fix it" for TGs' and people with GID is ludicrous when you think about this site. It reeks of ignorance and bigotry. By that theory, science and psychology should do the same with homosexuals and those who exhibt unusual sexual preferences.

The comments were not surprising, and actually provided quite a laugh. I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think they are smart little cookies because they can string some sentences together, but lack the sense to realize when they make a comment like that they are also negating everyone on this site for their various likes/dislikes as scientific or psychological maladies.

(in reply to Ninebelowzero)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 9:50:51 AM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
Status: offline 		If you are saying that there is nothing wrong with trans folk then I agree. Personally I just accept & get on with the rest of my life. When it comes to this shizzle I'm the 1st to admit I know sod all & understand less.

I suspect that as we have now moved on from the bigotry & hatred & condescension towards homosexuals that society has transferred this to other groups. Trans being one of them.

having been in trans bars all I can say is that my beer didn't go off, I didn't feel uncomfortable & really had a few laughs. The only downside was that the music was hellishly cheesy.

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Profile   Post #: 217
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 9:57:44 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		*likes Nine even more*


also: Six.. I do not pretend to know the rivalries within Eire, but even *I* got a giggle outta your last post!!

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 218
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 10:27:59 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

That's just the way it goes. Stuff like this doesn't really bother me any more. It's not like it changes anything.



You're absolutely right!

What changes stuff is people like you and the others who are willing to engage with other people's prejudices. Of course, you wont change the world overnight, but you eat away at prejudice and ignorance the same way you eat an elephant - one spoonful at a time.

For my part, I have to recognise the prejudices that I have picked up, and challenge them - one spoonful at a time.


_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to stellauk)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/16/2011 10:41:52 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		~I like Stella's looks~

Menz are odd, yanno?

And SIX we are keeping him!!

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Profile   Post #: 220
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