RE: The Transgender Thread (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 10:45:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

If you are saying that there is nothing wrong with trans folk then I agree. Personally I just accept & get on with the rest of my life. When it comes to this shizzle I'm the 1st to admit I know sod all & understand less.



It's not simply that there is nothing wrong with them, but the ludicrous concept that it is something that needs to be "fixed." Coming from people who are all over the idea that the kink they partake in should not be considered "deviant behavior," and is just "natural" for them.

But that is the whole point of prejudice, isn't it? That usually the people who are so vocal are not simply ignorant of reality, but ignorant of their own behavior that would equally qualify under their concept of something that needs to be "fixed."



LafayetteLady -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 10:46:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

That's just the way it goes. Stuff like this doesn't really bother me any more. It's not like it changes anything.



You're absolutely right!

What changes stuff is people like you and the others who are willing to engage with other people's prejudices. Of course, you wont change the world overnight, but you eat away at prejudice and ignorance the same way you eat an elephant - one spoonful at a time.

For my part, I have to recognise the prejudices that I have picked up, and challenge them - one spoonful at a time.



But you are willing to try to work on your prejudices when you realize you have them. It keeps you out of the group of ignorant bigots. Because ignorant bigots have no desire to recognize their behavior or their failings.



Ninebelowzero -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 10:55:18 AM)

Yeah needed to be fixed is more on the nail than I was LH>
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

If you are saying that there is nothing wrong with trans folk then I agree. Personally I just accept & get on with the rest of my life. When it comes to this shizzle I'm the 1st to admit I know sod all & understand less.



It's not simply that there is nothing wrong with them, but the ludicrous concept that it is something that needs to be "fixed." Coming from people who are all over the idea that the kink they partake in should not be considered "deviant behavior," and is just "natural" for them.

But that is the whole point of prejudice, isn't it? That usually the people who are so vocal are not simply ignorant of reality, but ignorant of their own behavior that would equally qualify under their concept of something that needs to be "fixed."




SixMore2Go -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:04:26 AM)

So, should I tell Janie she wasted her time and money on all that surgery and medication and counselling, or will you?

I have to ask myself, does the unpleasant lawyer lady ever stop to consider what she's saying before she posts her shite? Or does she just let her fingers do her thinking for her?




LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:07:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

So, should I tell Janie she wasted her time and money on all that surgery and medication and counselling, or will you?

I have to ask myself, does the unpleasant lawyer lady ever stop to consider what she's saying before she posts her shite? Or does she just let her fingers do her thinking for her?




I didn't think that last post was so bad. But I read her as saying that "trans folk don't need "fixing"" as in "help with their mental health crisis", like the folks who think you can be brainwashed out of being gay would have us believe.



GreedyTop -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:08:58 AM)

*what Hibbie said*



SixMore2Go -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:24:21 AM)

Ah well, perhaps that is so. But to my thinking somebody whose brain is on a different page from their body does have at least a wee bit of a mental health crisis, and they are needing help with it, else why do they go around killing themselves off with such alarming regularity? Did you not read the stories of the trans folks on this very same thread? About how their life was a bloody misery until they made the big switch?

Ah, but what do what do I know, I'm still half sober.



GreedyTop -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:30:46 AM)

*passes 6 a few more pints*

I have my thoughts on the suicide rate, but since I am not TG, I cant really be sure if I am seeing it right.

IMO (and I could very well be wrong), the higher suicide rates among the TG population is mainly due to self-conflict combined with the non-acceptance from the non-tg/biased/bigoted folks.
again, I am not TG, so cant be certain.. but that is kinda what I have gotten (in a nutshell) from folks that ARE TG, and what I have :"heard" about their experiences.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:33:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

Ah well, perhaps that is so. But to my thinking somebody whose brain is on a different page from their body does have at least a wee bit of a mental health crisis, and they are needing help with it, else why do they go around killing themselves off with such alarming regularity? Did you not read the stories of the trans folks on this very same thread? About how their life was a bloody misery until they made the big switch?

Ah, but what do what do I know, I'm still half sober.




This is true, I do think it's an issue, but I don't see it as a brokenness that can be repaired by becoming heteronormative. If you are some other gender at heart, no amount of anything will change that. It's become the other gender, or be really unhappy.

A man I know got electroshock therapy in the 60's, to cure him of being gay. NOT KIDDING. No, it didn't work. I am thinking that this happened to some trans folks in the past, too.



GreedyTop -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:43:58 AM)

to me, saying that a TG is broken in some way is the same that saying that any other gender is broken in some way.

Like Otter has said: gender is in the head, sex is between the legs.

(and on that note, I'm am going to nap, cause I'm not certain I am making sense now...)



SixMore2Go -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:51:04 AM)

quote:

It's become the other gender, or be really unhappy.

Oh aye, that there's no denying, but that is fixing it, and that is science doing it, now isn't it?

Take a person like my Janie/Jimmie ... one of the better shags I've had, by the way ... now there's no way to make Janie feel like she should be Jimmie, but there is a way to make Jimmie feel and look more like Janie. So to say it isn't something that science can fix is a bit off, don't you think?





LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 11:51:21 AM)

I think that EVERYONE is broken in some way or another. Not everyone CAN be "fixed", if the goal of that repair is living independently and functioning in society as a reasonably content person. Bad verbiage on my part, but I can't come up with a more concise word.



LafayetteLady -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 12:30:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

So, should I tell Janie she wasted her time and money on all that surgery and medication and counselling, or will you?

I have to ask myself, does the unpleasant lawyer lady ever stop to consider what she's saying before she posts her shite? Or does she just let her fingers do her thinking for her?




Here's a thought....

I was speaking AGAINST the concept that it is something that needs to be fixed. So maybe you need to stop trying to read so fast and impress and pay a little closer attention.




SixMore2Go -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 12:34:15 PM)

quote:

I was speaking AGAINST the concept that it is something that needs to be fixed.
Oh I know that darling, which is why I called it shite. But here's a big thank you though, for answering my question for me.



LafayetteLady -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 12:42:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

quote:

It's become the other gender, or be really unhappy.

Oh aye, that there's no denying, but that is fixing it, and that is science doing it, now isn't it?

Take a person like my Janie/Jimmie ... one of the better shags I've had, by the way ... now there's no way to make Janie feel like she should be Jimmie, but there is a way to make Jimmie feel and look more like Janie. So to say it isn't something that science can fix is a bit off, don't you think?



Honestly, did you just pop in the middle of this without reading what others have said?

I was responding to someone saying:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Fact is, there is no consensus on this point and very little in the way of scientific evidence. I regard it as important that we discover the root cause of this particular disharmony between mind and body - whether physiological or psychological - and then work to eradicate it. The only feasible way in which this can be done is through the scientific method. Simple acceptance of principles put forward by special interest groups - such as the trans community - will not achieve this. Accordingly it's imperative that we bring some science into this arena, rather than simply promoting those ideas which the trans community finds palatable.



Now look at that bold part. Are you sober enough to grasp the concept that someone is saying "eradicate the issue that makes you identify as something you physically aren't."

The very idea that someone who is TG is something that science and psychology should work to "eradicate" is repulsive. I have continuously held that standpoint. The point, since you are obviously trying to be the new "funny man" on the block and can't comprehend things above a fifth grade level, is that if one believes that TG is some sort of psychological/scientific malady that can be "eradicated," they likely feel the same way about homosexuals and are completely ignorant of the fact that their desire/enjoyment for the kink they partake in would also fall within a "scientific/psychological" malady that needs "fixing."

In your haste to be popular, don't lose reading comprehension or jump on me for something you fail to understand.

Not wise to make assumptions about me either. You haven't got what it takes to figure it out.



LafayetteLady -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 12:46:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

quote:

I was speaking AGAINST the concept that it is something that needs to be fixed.
Oh I know that darling, which is why I called it shite. But here's a big thank you though, for answering my question for me.


Ah, so you think there IS something to be fixed.

To give you a better grasp of psychology, which you obviously lack, the "mental issues" are finding a way to accept who you are, which isn't being "fixed." Psychological issues don't get "fixed," nor do they get eradicated.

Don't think just because you "shagged" a TG you have some deep insight. By your own words, you were drunk (something I suspect you spend a great deal of time being) and basically fucked a person that turned you on and didn't really care about what was going on in her psyche at all.

Doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a guy who was horny and wanted to get laid. Not really a big achievement.



SixMore2Go -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 12:48:47 PM)

quote:

Not wise to make assumptions about me either. You haven't got what it takes to figure it out.
Ah well, but here's the thing darling, I do, we all do, right here.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3924605





PeonForHer -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 1:21:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
a little experiment i did this morning was to go to Google Image Search, and type in "feminine" and then "masculine"
When you type in "feminine," look at the results you get.
You have to scroll to the second page of results before you even see anyone who isn't white. =p Seriously. The concept of acceptable femininity is limited to such a ridiculous degree.


That *is* pretty intriguing, Lilly. My advice - write an article on the matter and flog it to a magazine. That's a little gem of an empirical finding.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 1:24:28 PM)

I don't know that it's a *new* finding, Darling, I do see it on the science shows... but yes, Lilly! You can totally get published with a spin on that!



NocturnalStalker -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/16/2011 3:46:02 PM)

quote:

****NocturnalStalker. Really if you have a problem with transgendered people, why not choose to be neutral rather than offensive by "calling it the way you see it"? If someone called you a "fag" because you have long hair and they see guys with long hair as homosexuals, how would it make you feel? And more important would it be fair?


Because I've chosen to be offensive since it is wrong thinking.  There are many sexual abnormalities that are wrong and though you may have bought into being a mindless sheep that thinks they are defending the weak all you're doing is hurting them more by enabling them to justify their sketchy stories and actions.  Society should work to make the transsexual types be at peace with their original selves, not telling them that it is "okay" to go and change themselves overnight.  It's like saying, "You're right, you are a shitty guy.  Go grab some dice and roll a female instead." 

Because even if society does say to, "Do whatever you want" there's omission that once you do go through that you'll be ridiculed and looked at as a freak. 

And sorry but it doesn't add up that you're more inclined to kill yourself *before* the transformation as opposed to after it.  Especially if it is poorly done and makes you look terrible as most often do.  Logic tells me that they would be more susceptible to suicide when they realize that the average person won't tolerate them beyond casual friendship or civility.  Before the operation they're just guys or girls with psychological problems.  After the operation they're girls or guys with psychological problems and now widespread social issues. 



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