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You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 2:22:53 PM

strongnsubmissiv

Posts: 197
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline

Equal: Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.

I regularly flip through profiles here at collarme, and amongst the many things in Dominant profiles that make me shake my head, one is the notion that submissives are not seen as equals. This perplexes me and i can't imagine myself being in a relationship with anyone who doesn't think of thier partner as an equal.

Perhaps it's the meaning of equal that is sort of lost in translation. Surely, by engaging in a D/s relationship, it would appear that the freedom of actions and choices of a submissive are restricted, yet i fail to see how that has anything to do with "worth" or "value".

For me, this lifestyle is all about two people in love, who's sexualities perfectly compliment each other, equally.

_____________________________

*** Strong and submissive are not contradictions ***

Post #: 1

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 2:26:37 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

It really depends on what you are measuring. One can be equal (or at least have the potential for equality) in most things, but when it comes to power and the control and authority of that power, there is only one Master.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 2

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 2:28:25 PM

VvShadowspawnvV

Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

It's "D/s", there's a "D", and there's an "s". Half and half, as far as the relationship goes. (please don't bring up poly- i hate doing math =P) It's the power ratio that is unequal, not the person's individual worth.

becca

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 3

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 2:33:57 PM

wouldlike2

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

i do have the same problems like You strongnsubmissiv including talkings and discussion with Dom/ Masters.
i can just decide for myself. and at least when i get the impression/ feeling i am not equal as person, human and partner.. it is definitly not for me.
i also got questions like .... how worthy are You? thats a statement i often see on profiles too... show me how worthy You are.
what does that mean? worthy as woman, as lover, as human, friend, bitch, slut or whore?? the domestic sub.. the mother???
i am not into M/s.. and define myself as sub. i have limits and with the right One i personally do believe there is no prooveness of worthy.. neither as Dom nor sub.
but these are just my two cents... - smile -
be well

pet

_____________________________

Love arises from the mind while the body follows and reflect the soul

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 4

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 2:47:13 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I regularly flip through profiles here at collarme, and amongst the many things in Dominant profiles that make me shake my head, one is the notion that submissives are not seen as equals. This perplexes me and i can't imagine myself being in a relationship with anyone who doesn't think of thier partner as an equal.

Submissives are not only equal, oftentimes they can excell in many areas over the dominant, but I don't think people are literally basing entire relationships on choosing someone they feel are superior or inferior. My understanding of D/s is: there is a person who enjoys, thrives on, lives for dominating/controlling the objects of their affection; and the objects incidentally enjoy and thrive on being controlled and dominated.

For myself, it really is as simple as looking up Dominance

quote:

: the fact or state of being dominant: as a : the relative position of an individual in a social hierarchy —compare PECKING ORDER 2: the state that exists when one person or group has power over another; "her apparent dominance of her husband... [syn: ascendance, ascendence, ascendancy, ascendency, control] 3: the power or right to give orders or make decisions

Submission:

quote:

The act of submitting to the power of another
3 : an act of submitting to the authority or control of another

I say submission is not for the faint of heart... I think it requires an incredible amount of trust, love and humility to allow someone that much authority over your life/choices... But I cannot imagine a more fun, sexy, effective way to run a relationship with a minimum of drama, and perhaps it's twisted of me to think this way, but that is my personal kink.

quote:

strongnsubmissiv
Surely, by engaging in a D/s relationship, it would appear that the freedom of actions and choices of a submissive are restricted, yet i fail to see how that has anything to do with "worth" or "value".

I doubt most of us view submission as less worthy than dominance, or vice versa. It's about 2 people having complementary parts to make a whole, yes it's codependent in my view. So though they are equal in value as human beings and as parts to a whole, they are not equal in authority. There are plenty of folks who get off on thinking I'm a worthless pig to my superior woman.. That isn't my thing, but to each his own.
Hope that makes sense, M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 5/26/2006 3:26:58 PM >

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 5

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 3:22:44 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv
the notion that submissives are not seen as equals.

Perhaps they are insecure 'dominants'. Having to denigrate another to feel superior yourself is a sign of weakness, rather than strength.
There is a difference: doms dominate and subs submit, but that is not relevant to worth.

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 6

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 3:29:20 PM

MistressMelissa

Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv
Equal: Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.

I regularly flip through profiles here at collarme, and amongst the many things in Dominant profiles that make me shake my head, one is the notion that submissives are not seen as equals. This perplexes me and i can't imagine myself being in a relationship with anyone who doesn't think of thier partner as an equal.

Consider this thought: Equal in value, but not in station.

Webster's:
1 a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : EQUIVALENT b : like in quality, nature, or status c : like for each member of a group, class, or society <provide equal employment opportunities>
2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way :

So while they may be equal in value, they are not equal in station. The President of the United States and I are not equal in station. We are both of equal value under the law, but we are not equal in social standing or station.

quote:

Perhaps it's the meaning of equal that is sort of lost in translation. Surely, by engaging in a D/s relationship, it would appear that the freedom of actions and choices of a submissive are restricted, yet i fail to see how that has anything to do with "worth" or "value".

Actually the value of the sub/slave is in their ability to submit. By restricting their freedoms and actions, I provide them with what they desire. By placing them in a structured environment with a clear set of rules, the sub/slaves finds freedom within their bonds. So while a sub/slave is a highly valued member of my house, they are not my equal by their own desire to be a sub/slave. If you want to be someone's equal, go live in a vanilla relationship. The reason they come to me is because they understand that I don't want them to be my equal, I want them to be a slave.

quote:

For me, this lifestyle is all about two people in love, who's sexualities perfectly compliment each other, equally.

Actually BDSM is a very wide umbrella and Ds, aka dominance and submission, does not have to invole love or even sex for that matter. What it does require is that someone dominantes and someone submits. I knew a respected slave of many years who told me if her master ever informed her that he loved her, she would beg release. She identified as a lesbian, and she served a male dominant. Their relationship was not based on sex or love, but on domination and submission.While it is common for couples to add BDSM to their relationship, there are also Ds relationships based purely upon the power exchange. Phoenix who has served me these last 3.5 years was given to me by her last master. He did not ask her what she wanted, he told her she now belonged to me. She obeyed and serves my house well. I know several Dominants and slaves that will tell you it is just wrong for a dominant to have sex with their slaves. That would be like the Mistress of a Victorian Manor House screwing the staff.

It is all a matter of perspective of what you want. What I want is two slaves that understand their slavery and are looking for the power exchange. If your counting that would give me three subs/slaves in my house. It's about how I want to live and finding others that share my desire. If I desided to play (play is bondage or SM, Ds is how I live) with my property that's purely up to me. They serve me because they desire to live a life of service and slavery gives them that. They serve me for their own satisfaction of serving. All I do is provide the world they desire to live in and in return I get to live like a queen. Come to think of it, it's really not a bad deal for them.

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

< Message edited by MistressMelissa -- 5/26/2006 3:37:19 PM >

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 7

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 3:33:39 PM

iliv2servher

Posts: 228
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strongsubmisiv

I regularly flip through profiles here at collarme, and amongst the many things in Dominant profiles that make me shake my head, one is the notion that submissives are not seen as equals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

It really depends on what you are measuring. One can be equal (or at least have the potential for equality) in most things, but when it comes to power and the control and authority of that power, there is only one Master.

Celeste

I guess it would depend upon what the definition of "equal" or "equality" means to each of you. If you accept Celeste's definition, then there is equality in a BDSM relationship, but the level of equality is measured by one's place in the heiraracy or chain of command. However, isn't that just a misnomer? But with strongsubmitiv, the assumption is that we are all equal, but that we recognize and honor each other equally and for our own contribution.

_____________________________

Dating sucks!

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 8

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 3:40:26 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: iliv2servher

But with strongsubmitiv, the assumption is that we are all equal, but that we recognize and honor each other equally and for our own contribution.

Amen! Too tired, am I, at seeing people continually tell submissive people that they are not equal to a dominant person. Le bull, le shit, I say. What each person offers the relationship is different, but each offering is no less valuable than the other. One does not work without the other, therefore, they are equally important. That being said, it really doesn't matter if there is love or sex involved in the relationship, does it?

< Message edited by feastie -- 5/26/2006 3:41:04 PM >

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to iliv2servher)

Post #: 9

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 3:49:10 PM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv
For me, this lifestyle is all about two people in love, who's sexualities perfectly compliment each other, equally.

I think herein lies the difficulty... some do not equate love or sex with D/s...
Some truly do wish to find someone who is happy in FEELING superior/inferior within a power exchange. I often tell males that I am not a female supremacist, that I don't feel superior, I simply want the freedom to allow my Dominance to flow as freely as any Dominant male without being questioned for it. Yanno what happens? most males go looking for someone who WILL treat them inferior. Go figure.

The key seems to be: Look for what matches YOU without judging those that don't match where possible. There's room for all types within this lifestyle and what one may value, someone else will devalue...

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 10

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:00:42 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv
For me, this lifestyle is all about two people in love, who's sexualities perfectly compliment each other, equally.

I think herein lies the difficulty... some do not equate love or sex with D/s...
Some truly do wish to find someone who is happy in FEELING superior/inferior within a power exchange. I often tell males that I am not a female supremacist, that I don't feel superior, I simply want the freedom to allow my Dominance to flow as freely as any Dominant male without being questioned for it. Yanno what happens? most males go looking for someone who WILL treat them inferior. Go figure.

The key seems to be: Look for what matches YOU without judging those that don't match where possible. There's room for all types within this lifestyle and what one may value, someone else will devalue...

Well said!

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 11

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:06:18 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

blktallfullfig,

I respect your views all the time, and enjoy reading your voice. But I have to say only to YOU and those who think LIKE YOU are subs not equal. Many doms (including the one I am seeing) do not feel as YOU do. It is not a universal view. It serves only you and those who think like you. Two people define their power exchange (or more if they are poly). No one else.

Even if I did feel my dom was somehow superior to me, it would only be him, and no other dominant... people can call themselves dominant, but they are not MY dominant, and I respect them no more than I respect a vanilla person or a fellow sub.

on edit: I prefer to look at the two halves that define the whole..soft is not superior to hard, gentle to harsh, salt to sweet, hot to cold.. these things define extremes, but they are not better than each other.. they are different. I find this chain or authroity heirarchy stuff to be Western Civilization crappola.. It is linear thinking, I prefer unilinear thinking... Yin Yang concept is much more in keeping than being in a military command heirarchy for me (and my Dom)

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/26/2006 4:10:02 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 12

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:10:48 PM

Littlepita

Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

It really depends on what you are measuring. One can be equal (or at least have the potential for equality) in most things, but when it comes to power and the control and authority of that power, there is only one Master.

Celeste

I agree with this. I have willingly submitted my equality to my Dom. Of course, he is a wonderful Dom and treats me like an equal on almost every issue. But, he is always the one who has the complete authority and control over us both.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 13

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:32:49 PM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

A D/s relationship has an equal number (unless poly) of people, each person is an equal component to the relationship, as take away the D or the s, and you have no relationship.

However, I think that while each person may be equally valuable in the scope of life, the roles in the partnership are generally not equal. One has authority or control over another. If you go to work, you may be as valuable of a human being as your boss, but your roles are not equal. The structure of the relationship has a chain of command. If you submit completely to another, you reliquish much of your control, authority, and generally equality in the relationship.

(in reply to Littlepita)

Post #: 14

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:33:40 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

blktallfullfig,
I respect your views all the time, and enjoy reading your voice.

Thank you Juliaoceania, I'm flattered.

quote:

But I have to say only to YOU and those who think LIKE YOU are subs not equal. Many doms (including the one I am seeing) do not feel as YOU do. It is not a universal view. It serves only you and those who think like you. Two people define their power exchange (or more if they are poly). No one else.

I don't think I said that anyone is superior, nor that this is universal. In fact I said

quote:

I doubt most of us view submission as less worthy than dominance, or vice versa.
Submissives are not only equal, oftentimes they can excell in many areas over the dominant, but I don't think people are literally basing entire relationships on choosing someone they feel are superior or inferior. My understanding of D/s is: there is a person who enjoys, thrives on, lives for dominating/controlling the objects of their affection; and the objects incidentally enjoy and thrive on being controlled and dominated.
It's about 2 people having complementary parts to make a whole, yes it's codependent in my view. So though they are equal in value as human beings and as parts to a whole, they are not equal in authority. There are plenty of folks who get off on thinking I'm a worthless pig to my superior woman.. That isn't my thing, but to each his own.

So I'm thinking we are actually agreeing, unless I'm misreading that you misread me, lol. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 15

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:50:55 PM

Misstoyou

Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:06:18 PM

I'm sorry, close, but not equal. I understand my way is not for everybody, but in my relationships, I'm the 51% partner.

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)

Post #: 16

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 4:57:05 PM

Sab

Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline

In the relationship I have with my sub, look at my signature and you will see what I mean, she is my equal in every way - simply the opposite side of the coin that is us! She is my submissive because she chose to be - that does not make her any less of worth. My value has grown because of her being part of what WE are, and I will allow her to answer how much value she applies to that herself.

We are very much equals - we just have differnet roles in life to play, and that includes all aspects of our lives together.

_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 17

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 5:13:33 PM

Kirei

Posts: 146
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Actually your both equal....one the dominant is the control, sets the control, makes the control, etc. The other the sub/slave has only choice...freewill to choose whatever they like, and is the opposite. The sub/slave desires, wants, needs, etc that specific control the dominant gives.
Alone they are only 1/2 of the equation to any ms, ds, or sm relationship. Each needs the other, so they are equal, but only if your willing to look at it that way.

Koneko

"....the truths we cling too, depend greatly upon our point of view." Obi Wan

(in reply to Sab)

Post #: 18

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 5:23:00 PM

Slipstreme

Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I prefer to look at the two halves that define the whole

I echo this notion as well. I tend to like balance in everything. So yes my submissives are my equal. They are what completes me, and us. Sure, they may submit their will to me, and I may have authority over them, but that doesn't make them any less my equal, and I would never claim superiority over anyone.

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to Sab)

Post #: 19

RE: You mean we're not equals? - 5/26/2006 5:26:54 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

I think I'm just going to cut down the wordiness since it all gets lost and say that in my relationship with a submissive (when I've had one) we are

quote:

close, but not equal. I understand my way is not for everybody, but in my relationships, I'm the 51% partner.

We are equally necessary and valuable within a relationship, but anyone who wants 50/50 knows not to come to me for it, nor will I seek him out. I don't do arguments over who's word is final, especially when someone is in a relationship with me as a submissive to me.
We can do discussions where I come to apreciate his point of view is the better one for the best outcome, but if we disagree, and it is something I consider important (deal maker/braker) his choice is to obey or leave. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Sab)

Post #: 20

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