RE: Cheap Bastards!!!!

RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (Full Version)

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tolovetolaugh -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 7:19:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr I do care that they use their gas and vehicle to spare mine. However, I don't need to tip them to show that I care about them using their equipment. I already pay them to show that I want them to use their equipment. There is a delivery charge on the bill because they are delivering instead of me picking up. The delivery charge goes straight to the company. Not one penny is given to the driver. It's one of the great misconceptions of the business. I don't know what pizza companies are near you, but for Dominoes atleast that is wrong. Dated a guy who was a pizza guy back in college- he said they got the delivery fee, and thats why he never tipped them as much as the girls at hooters. [8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 10:05:19 AM)
In most cases, the pizza companies are plowing the additional delivery income right back into the till. The delivery fees are not going to the drivers. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2002-09-03-pizza-delivery-fee_x.htm http://tipthepizzaguy.com/qna/2dollarfee.html (2009)

Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 10:41:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr I do care that they use their gas and vehicle to spare mine. However, I don't need to tip them to show that I care about them using their equipment. I already pay them to show that I want them to use their equipment. There is a delivery charge on the bill because they are delivering instead of me picking up. The delivery charge goes straight to the company. Not one penny is given to the driver. It's one of the great misconceptions of the business. So what, are you saying these guys don't get payed at all and work on tips alone? Considering that they are causing wear and tear on their own vehicle, why on Earth would they take a job where they don't get payed a single cent? quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr So while I won't tip to show him that I appreciate him doing something I already pay him to do, I WILL tip to show him that I appreciate that he always gets here as fast as he does. And if everyone followed that mindset, there'd be no drivers because they'd not be making enough money to justify the cost of filling their own gas tanks nightly. Maybe they'd actually start paying the guys decent wages then. I have no problem paying for the service, however, I do not and will not ever tip, to pay for a service I've already payed for. I tip to show people how to what degree I appreciate the effort they put into to the service I already payed for.

GreedyTop -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 10:51:13 AM)
Ishtarr.. for your first question: in this economy, it is often because it either the ONLY job they can find, or it is a supplement to a current job. ETA: if my car was worth a crap, I wuold be all over a job that paid me a wage (albeit a teeny tiny wage) plus tips

Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 11:28:48 AM)
Okay, I was curious now, so I looked it up. Domino's delivery drivers are employees NOT independent contractors. They get payed minimum wage and get a minimum compensation of 50 cents per mile. The 50 cents per mile is a federal minimum BTW, that applies to ALL pizza delivery drivers who are employees and payed minimum wage or less. So unless the guy that drives for you is and independent contractor (which Dominos doesn't have) they get BOTH a salary AND a mile compensation. So again: I already pay for delivery. I do not and will not tip to "pay" for a service I already pay for. I tip to comment how well the service I already pay for was delivered.

GreedyTop -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 11:43:41 AM)
.50? have you LOOKED at gas prices lately????? I paid $3.04 today (reg. unl) p/ gal. so please tell me in what world that .50 p/ mile is adequate compensation for fuel AND mechanical upkeep? Esprcially when min. wage isnt even a livign wage? Ishtarr, I like you.. but really.. do REAL WORLD maths, please? ETA: p.s. $3.04 is fucking CHEAP by most current standards...

tolovetolaugh -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 11:52:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop .50? have you LOOKED at gas prices lately????? I paid $3.04 today (reg. unl) p/ gal. so please tell me in what world that .50 p/ mile is adequate compensation for fuel AND mechanical upkeep? Esprcially when min. wage isnt even a livign wage? Ishtarr, I like you.. but really.. do REAL WORLD maths, please? ETA: p.s. $3.04 is fucking CHEAP by most current standards... That is cheap. At around 3.20 near me.

Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 11:54:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop .50? have you LOOKED at gas prices lately????? I paid $3.04 today (reg. unl) p/ gal. so please tell me in what world that .50 p/ mile is adequate compensation for fuel AND mechanical upkeep? Esprcially when min. wage isnt even a livign wage? Ishtarr, I like you.. but really.. do REAL WORLD maths, please? ETA: p.s. $3.04 is fucking CHEAP by most current standards... Greedy, it was said here that drivers don't get the delivery charge, don't get paid, and are in no way compensated for the delivery if I don't tip them. That's simple not true. I've made no statement whatsoever, about whether or not I find the compensation they get adequate or fair. The fact is that they do get payed, and that I do get charged for the delivery. I tip, and I tip well, precisely because I don't think American wage scales for the food industry are absolutely preposterous. However, the fact that I feel that way doesn't mean I think it's useful to have an argument about this based on false information.

GreedyTop -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 12:00:14 PM)
Ishtarr.. I think Tazzy (?) posted a couple of links..

agirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 12:18:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop Ishtarr.. for your first question: in this economy, it is often because it either the ONLY job they can find, or it is a supplement to a current job. ETA: if my car was worth a crap, I wuold be all over a job that paid me a wage (albeit a teeny tiny wage) plus tips To be honest Greedy, I really don't have enough compassion to suppliment other people's poor income, no matter what the circumstances. I'll tip if I get something exceptional that I appreciate. I don't tip just because someone is on piss poor wages. The delivery guy is not doing me a favour; he's employed to carry out a function that his company offers. agirl

GreedyTop -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 12:20:36 PM)
agirl.. I get that.. once again, as I said before: there is a MAJOR disconnect between the US and anywhere in the UK... and the entire EU, as far as I can tell. shrug

tazzygirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 2:39:27 PM)
quote: Greedy, it was said here that drivers don't get the delivery charge, don't get paid, and are in no way compensated for the delivery if I don't tip them. That's simple not true. No one said they didnt get paid. Lets put this into perspective. Federal Law clearly states that pizza drivers MUST be reimbursed at least the (IRS) standard business mileage rate of 50 cents per mile (2010) or for their actual costs if they are paid minimum wage or less. We have also found that "Tips in excess of statutory tip credit may not be credited against uniform purchase and maintenance costs" What this all means is that if you are paid minimum wage or less, your mileage or commission or reimbursement MUST be at least 50 cents per mile or equal to your actual costs for miles driven while delivering pizza. If not, they are ripping you off and BREAKING FEDERAL LAW! Here is all the law info found on the matter: From page 31 of the DOL Field Operations Handbook (FOH) chapter 30 http://www.dol.gov/whd/FOH/FOH_Ch30.pdf This might be of interest... http://gregspages.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9 http://gregspages.com/discussion/viewforum.php?f=14 I particularly like this one... mikehoughton wrote: So heres my situation I work at a fairly large Pizza Chain. I get paid 7.25 an Hour. I deliver maybe 8 times per 5 hour shift. Each delivery has averaged about 8 miles per delivery. The employer charges customers either 3.00 or 4.00 dollars per delivery based on distance. Of that I get either .50 or 1.00 depending on the distance. Should he have to pay me more? ......... Answer 8 deliveries x 8 miles = 64 miles 8 deliveries x $1 = $8 $8 / 64 miles = 12.5 cents per mile If it costs you more than 12.5 cents per mile to operate your car, then you are being underpaid. The average price for gas here is $3.47 today. Say your car gets about 19 MPG city. (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm) $3.47 / 19 MPG = 18.2 cents per mile just for gas alone. You are DEFINITELY being under reimbursed for your car expenses (and that is even ignoring your costs for tires, oil, maintenance, depreciation, insurance and licensing.) Ask the owner if YOU can drive HIS car using HIS gas for just 12.5 cents per mile!!!

Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 2:54:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Greedy, it was said here that drivers don't get the delivery charge, don't get paid, and are in no way compensated for the delivery if I don't tip them. That's simple not true. No one said they didnt get paid. DarqueMirror said that they don't get one penny from the company. quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror The delivery charge goes straight to the company. Not one penny is given to the driver. It's one of the great misconceptions of the business. Hey, I'm not at all arguing that they get a fair wage. Just that it's not true -if they're employees instead of independent contractors- that they don't get reimbursement for gas and equipment. I'm all for them getting better wages. I also don't mind paying for their better wages. I just don't think that a tip system is the way to do it. If they remain dependent on tips to make up the difference, there are always days they'll just be royally screwed over. I'd much rather see a system where they -and the rest of the service industry- just get paid a survivable base wage and tipping provides an extra. Oh and that they, just like in Belgium, get company vehicles and gas to do deliveries with.

tazzygirl -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 3:01:16 PM)
Ah, I dont see his posts. I did find it interesting that all those class action suits are started.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 6:34:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe Since Ishtar got her pizza in 20 minutes I'm guessing Domino's does. The Domino's I was standing in while watching mine get made would dispute that guess.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 6:40:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr So what, are you saying these guys don't get payed at all and work on tips alone? Considering that they are causing wear and tear on their own vehicle, why on Earth would they take a job where they don't get payed a single cent? They do get paid. But that delivery charge you see on th receipt doesn't go to them. They make an hourly wage that doesn't come close to paying gas and wear and tear. quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr I have no problem paying for the service, however, I do not and will not ever tip, to pay for a service I've already payed for. I tip to show people how to what degree I appreciate the effort they put into to the service I already payed for. And again, if everyone had that mindset, there'd be no delivery because no one would take the job.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 6:44:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr DarqueMirror said that they don't get one penny from the company. Actually, if you'll re-read my post, I said they don't get a penny of the DELIVERY CHARGE. They do get paid a wage, albeit a shitty one. quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr I'm all for them getting better wages. I also don't mind paying for their better wages. I just don't think that a tip system is the way to do it. No you aren't. Can you honestly tell me you would be ok paying $40 for one pizza just so the drivers make a decent wage?

Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 7:51:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr So what, are you saying these guys don't get payed at all and work on tips alone? Considering that they are causing wear and tear on their own vehicle, why on Earth would they take a job where they don't get payed a single cent? They do get paid. But that delivery charge you see on th receipt doesn't go to them. They make an hourly wage that doesn't come close to paying gas and wear and tear. They get an hourly wage and a milage reimbursement. And it doesn't matter if the delivery charge goes directly to the driver or not. I pay for the delivery, and they pay their drivers. What funds they use to pay the drivers and where it comes from doesn't really matter. BTW, the delivery charge I get on my bill from the Domino's here in town is $1.50. Their location is a little under 5 miles from our house. So, if they get the federal minimum milage compensation, they get payed almost $2.50 for the delivery to our house. They get payed more to deliver -beside their wages- than Domino's charges me in the delivery fee. At that point, I think it's rather irrelevant whether or not Domino's uses the $1.50 delivery they charge me to pay PART of the driver's milage compensation, or if they use different funds than the delivery charge to do so. quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr I have no problem paying for the service, however, I do not and will not ever tip, to pay for a service I've already payed for. I tip to show people how to what degree I appreciate the effort they put into to the service I already payed for. And again, if everyone had that mindset, there'd be no delivery because no one would take the job. Oh, so delivery wouldn't work on a non-tip based system? That's odd, considering that I had no trouble getting pizza delivered in Belgium, where tipping the driver is nearly unheard of. What happens there is that pizza companies actually charge you what it costs to deliver a pizza and then let you decide whether you want to pay for the convenience or not. If everybody had the mindset to not tip for service already payed for, and only to tip for the effort put into service, nobody would take delivery jobs that didn't pay a fair BASIC wage and considered tips extra... instead of a necessity. Consumers would be charged what a service is actually WORTH instead of what their whim is -as is normal with ANY other service or goods people acquire. And people working in the service industry would still have the incentive to put in extra effort, to get the little icing on the cake that tips can provide. BTW... I'd have no problem whatsoever with Domino's actually charging me the minimum of $2.50 they are actually paying their driver to delivery at my door. Hell, if they find that $2.50 wouldn't be enough to cover his costs, I'd have no problem with them charging me enough to actually cover his costs. And even if they did, I'd still tip him the 20%-30% I'm tipping him now, providing he keeps getting here as fast as he currently does.

Kaliko -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 8:14:22 PM)
FR I had a pizza delivered to my office once. (Okay, more than once, but I digress.) This one time, I didn't have a tip for her. I told her so when she delivered the pizza, and apologized and said I'd catch her next time. She said not to worry, that we get charged a delivery fee anyway so there is no need to tip. Anyway, overall, this seems to be much more an emotional issue than anything else. Personally, I don't think there's all that much of a disconnect between the UK* and the US because I am in the US and I think the tipping structure sucks. I don't think I should have to tip my hairdresser because ... isn't that what I'm paying for in the first place? I shouldn't have to tip the pizza delivery guy because...that's his job. The argument that these people are providing a service to me and therefore deserve further compensation from me in the form of a tip doesn't convince me. The person who makes my coffee at Dunkin Donuts is providing me with a very much needed service, as are the people who deliver my mail, fill my prescriptions, ring up my groceries, and dry clean my clothing. While I agree that these jobs pay shit, I continue to be confused as to why certain jobs that make at least minimum wage are deserving of tipping while other jobs that make at least minimum wage are not. It smacks more of contrived political correctness than a fair business transaction. I can't believe that it would be expected that I, the consumer, would be personally responsible to make up for salary and benefit shortcomings on the part of the employer for any single worker. Alas, I do it. It's one of the things about life I've come to accept, along with having to wear a bra. I do it, but...I can't say I agree with the expectation that I do. ETA - *UK? Maybe I have the location wrong. But you know what I mean.

Ishtarr -> RE: Cheap Bastards!!!! (11/26/2011 8:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr I'm all for them getting better wages. I also don't mind paying for their better wages. I just don't think that a tip system is the way to do it. No you aren't. Can you honestly tell me you would be ok paying $40 for one pizza just so the drivers make a decent wage? Where do you get the lunatic idea that it would cost $40 for a pizza? Okay, I've looked it up as a means to compare: Belgian minimum wage is $11.06. I don't know if that's what drivers make, but let's assume they do. I used Pizza Hut as an example because we don't have Domino's there. I used an address that's the exact same distance from the Pizza Hut than I currently live from Dominos. I used a menu that is comparable to what my husband and I may order. 10 chicken wings 1 medium deep pan pizza with 3 toppings 1.5 liter Pepsi Total cost, including taxes and delivery charge; with no tip expected: $28.85 Now let's look at the same order from the Dominos I order from: 8 chicken wings 1 medium deep pan pizza with 3 toppings 2 liter coke Total cost, including taxes and delivery charge; + expected tip of 20%: $22.41 + $4.50 = $26.89 So the orders aren't perfectly the same, because the same options aren't offered. The Belgian offer has got 10 chicken wings but only 1.5l of soft-drinks, while the American example has only 8 chicken wings and 2l of soft-drinks. I think chicken wings are a tad more expensive than drinks, which may cause the slight price difference, but I'm too lazy to calculate it out to the cent. So between the two orders, the Belgian one is $1.96 more expense. $1.96 more expensive to pay the driver a minimum wage of $11.06 an hour, full health and dental insurance, and 20 payed vacation days a year, with tips as a little extra on the top. Which is the BARE MINIMUM of what the Belgian driver will be getting. Yeah, you're right... the entire US service industry would crumble down into non-existence if American consumers have to pay $2 more for their pizza so that the driver could have a fair wage.

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