RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma?

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/3/2011 5:43:09 AM

fragilepieces

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This is a good topic and so far every single response was well worth the read.    I am so pleased that the topic is not getting blown apart because often times when we enter into this arena it does.

I was an abused child---sexually abused by an older sibling way back when I was a toddler.    My family appeared to be a 'normal' middle class family but honestly our family was pretty fucked up and far from whatever normal is.

I do believe my entrance into this lifestyle stems from my upbringing and environment and I can trace certain aspects of it directly back to my childhood.    However, because I was never given the opportunity to grow up not being abused, I can not say that I would not have turned to kink anyways.

I love littlewonder's post because I saw a great deal of me in that post...I took a long step away from D/s and dating to find myself and came back way different.    I don't think that there is enough inward reflection---how we are, why we are, and plain old being honest with yourself.

ChatteParfaitt---thanks again for this thread---you are wonderful.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/3/2011 8:02:53 PM

catize

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Just some general thoughts on your OP.

Any particular grouping; (bowlers, skiers, etc) will have the same percentage of people who have “issues” or past traumas. So my answer is nope, we who are 'kinky' have the same demographics as the bowlers and skiers when it comes to past experiences. I don't think it has anything to do with our proclivities over all.
The “ick” factor notwithstanding, we all have to draw our own lines regarding whether or not it is abuse. A top who hates the person they engage with in pain play will soon tip over the line. Yeah, it does happen, and if they didn't have S+M to use as an excuse, they would still be abusive.
And for me, submitting to the right person makes me feel good; about us and about myself. It is where I feel 'at home'. I may lead in other areas of my life, but in my intimate relationships, my ego is boosted by my submission. I have never had a 'vanilla' relationship that made me feel so good about myself as I do within my D/s ones.

< Message edited by catize -- 12/3/2011 8:14:57 PM >

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/3/2011 8:12:02 PM

LookieNoNookie

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I was always told it was somehow related to shellfish.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 7:21:36 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

For me, somehow feeling bad was part of it for me. If M spit in my face, it shocked me and made me feel bad or cry. If he called me a "fucking bitch," it made me feel very low. But somehow, for me, that was where the power of it was. It's not something I see myself doing casually, like the very obese woman I mentioned earlier. it was possible because of the connection, but you know, I did have bad self-esteem before I met him. That relationship actually built my self esteem up, because somehow giving him ownership of those things, and knowing how he felt about me actually diffused a lot of the self-generated stuff. It made it something we could explore. He could tear me down, but he always built me right back up, and made me stronger.

Some fantastic insights into your psyche, and proof positive that members of the younger generation are capable of deep self-reflection.

I feel exactly the same way about humiliation, for the same reasons. Being a highly sexual female (regardless of how many partners you have had) has been viewed by members of my generation as "bad." It's that Madonna whore thing. The highly sexual female is great to have sex with, but you don't marry her or take her home to Mother.

So being called a slut by someone who I know loves me takes the taint of that word away. It lets me own who and what I am and know that I am lovable, despite anyone's preconceived ideals of "how females should be."

I am hoping the generations that follow mine will get away from some of that Madonna whore crap.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 7:28:33 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: curiousslave90

What an amazingly interesting discussion.

Personally, I believe that there are firm links with one's past and their bdsm interests.

Take me for example, I'm still pretty young but through out most of my teenage life, have suffered depression as a result of always being an 'outsider'.
I'm still a pretty normal guy as in I get good college grades and I am reasonably intelligent and seemingly sane.
My strongest sexual desire is to be ultimately destroyed?
I don't know, but I constantly see links with my personality and my past. Enough to make me think that these fetishes I now have are a result of what has happened to me and that I am now 'damaged'.

If you see yourself as damaged, and your strongest sexual desire is to see yourself destroyed, I have to ask if you are in therapy. And if not, why not?

Although I don't make a point of stating it publically, I am the survivor of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse from a very early age. Not surprisingly, when I married my (dom) husband was very emotionally abusive. I stayed in that relationship for 20 years.

I finally sought professional help, and when I did, guess what? I was gone (at great financial cost to myself, but at that point I knew I was fighting for my life).

I am telling you this to let you know I understand about feeling damaged. Please find some professional help, b/c it will only get worse until you do.

Best, Chatte

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 7:37:12 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Is sadism *always* the result of hating your "victim" on some level, while masking it as "love?"

from SuzeQ via Haytch House

quote:

No, I completely disagree with this idea. I used to ask this same question when I first discovered I enjoyed causing pain to others but I don't anymore. We went to a friend's place where I had the chance to flog somebody other than one of the other Haytchies, and I really didn't like it much, it seemed cold and just unpleasant. It was missing the intimacy that exists when I spank or flog one of the people I love. And I do love them, I don't hate them, or at least if I do hate them, its a deeply subconscious hate I am unaware of. Also, seeing the way Hannah adores Heather, there is no doubt in my mind that that is love, as real and true a love as I have ever seen and not a mask for anything.

Having been in an abusive D/s relationship, I can tell the difference. The dom I am with now is the most loving and kind man I have ever known. We adore each other, and are horrified when we learn we have inadvertently hurt the other in an emotional way.

I've learned (the hard way) to trust my gut: does this relationship make me feel built up emotinally, or torn down?

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 7:42:17 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: easterlilly

I would have to agree with the general consensus that "always" is a word that shouldn't be used in describing why a large group of people do anything. I would like to add that I believe it is extremely and sadly more common that people ignore there, lets call them"baser" urges. For the majority of my very short time living I have judged myself to the point of depression. Being only 27 that means I've wasted the so called best years of my life. I was raised by a feminist and I watched her go toe to toe with every man who ever tried to belittle her including my father. ( I don't think my my father realized he was doing it) I have also always been far to independent, to the point where it's a little unhealthy, so I've always shunned my needs to have a dominant male in my life. Because of that I almost married a man who I subconsciously handed more and more power to. I became weaker and hit a bit of an identity crisis. It got to the point that I wished for death. Thank god he was the type of guy who didn't want that power and we split on good terms. I was very lucky. Now that I am embracing my true desires I see that my need to submit stems from a want to trust some one enough to let go of my own judgments. And, my desire to dominate someone stems from wanting to be needed and utterly responsible for another persons happiness.
I fear that there are far to many people out there ignoring there true needs for whatever reason.

I agree about always statements, however I purposed worded my original post in a way I hoped would generate great discussion as well as insightful statements like the one above.

Thank you for contributing, and welcome to the discussion side of CM!!

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 7:47:56 AM

LillyBoPeep

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quote:

ORIGINAL: curiousslave90
My strongest sexual desire is to be ultimately destroyed?

I don't necessarily think therapy is necessary for this, and the reason for that is because well, I have a similar "thing." I call it an "annihilation fantasy," but I don't talk about it very much because people tend to respond the way you did.
(Edit: I did decide to take a chunk out -- if you want further clarification, feel free to PM me. :p I figured it wasn't good "open forum" stuff.)

I guess therapy would be necessary, though, if someone really was hoping to act out something with the intent to lead to their own demise. Like a suicide-by-cop or I guess suicide-by-play-partner sorta thing.

To me, it's not about being damaged, it's a reduction down to "it-ness."
That's another somewhat uncomfortable, not-possible-in-a-casual-fling realm for me, but something that's alluring, anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
Some fantastic insights into your psyche, and proof positive that members of the younger generation are capable of deep self-reflection.

I feel exactly the same way about humiliation, for the same reasons. Being a highly sexual female (regardless of how many partners you have had) has been viewed by members of my generation as "bad." It's that Madonna whore thing. The highly sexual female is great to have sex with, but you don't marry her or take her home to Mother.

So being called a slut by someone who I know loves me takes the taint of that word away. It lets me own who and what I am and know that I am lovable, despite anyone's preconceived ideals of "how females should be."

I am hoping the generations that follow mine will get away from some of that Madonna whore crap.

I agree with you very much on the Madonna/whore complex. I do hope that, as gender definitions continue to expand, this sort of thing will fade. I think there are lots of reasons why these types of things are alluring to us -- there's a lot of power and complexity in things that are generally forbidden, or seen as negative, or whatever. Facing those things gives us a glimpse at parts of ourselves we rarely get to see.
Certain facets are more "proper" or correct, depending on who you are. But you get a 50% view, with the rest left in the closet.

One thing I like about BDSM iiiiiss the fact that it often offers the opportunity to tinker with those things.
The taboo stuff isn't the entire draw for me, as I said in another thread, BUT I won't lie and say that I don't appreciate that the capacity for that exists.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 12/4/2011 8:11:45 AM >

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 8:12:19 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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HHMM.....I'm thinking about your "itness" concept. I don't have that in a death is beautiful sense, but I *do* have it in a "two people so close they become one" sense, which is itself a bit of a death, perhaps?

In any case I think your itness concept is very different emotionally from someone who self identifies as being damaged and who knows himself to have long term depression.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 8:18:10 AM

sexyred1

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I do not believe a proclivity for BDSM is a result of past trauma. I had a fantastic childhood, loving family, totally supportive, blah blah blah.

I never really need to analyze why I am submissive.

I imagine it must be because:
-it turns me on
-I had these weird fantasies of being dominated even as a young girl before sexual thoughts entered into it
-it is a great stress reliever for me
-it is exciting and empowering to be able to live out fantasies that most people repress

One thing I have found through my experiences, is that you can find out the true nature of a person through BDSM and how they express that is key.

For example, as most people here know, my ex boyfriend and I were in a D/s relationship. As his first sub ever, he was excited to release this part of himself, but as time went on, his psychological issues, propelled him to act out his anger towards me and the world, on me through our BDSM interactions.

This was obviously the unhealthy way to participate in anything labeled BDSM. So for me, while I approached this from a healthy POV, I felt devalued and mistreated and not built up, but brought down because of him. I recognized that I tried to "help" him by allowing him to behave in this manner, but all it did was hurt me, so I ended it.

So my view is that you may go into BDSM participation having had a fairly trauma free life, but if you possess unhealthy traits (anger issues, self esteem issues, inability to communicate, lack of empathy), then being involved in BDSM may exacerbate those problems.

On the other hand, if your entire relationship is healthy, you may be able to work through the issues via the self expression that BDSM provides, but the key is to be self aware and not in denial, as my partner was.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 11:21:33 AM

submaleinuk

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If someone is loved, nurtured and able to express themselves fully there is just no way they would want to control or humiliate others or vice versa, when someone isn't then they create a false self, id say a lot of people do this, not just those who like bdsm, so in some ways trying bdsm is expressing yourself, but there's a better option.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 11:30:08 AM

Lucylastic

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Personally, abuse, violence, harm, injury, trauma etc is too prevalent to be used as a REASON or a result, everyone suffers trauma of some kind in their lives.
my sisters had the same level of "child abuse" as I did, they both have traumas, and abuse in various ways during their lives, different times and places and effects, including gun violence domestic violence and sex abuse
neither of them have any interest in BDSM.
thats only MY pov, ymmv

there cannot be absolutes with a proclivity, in mnsho

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 6:44:34 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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Thank you very much for your input; I am very glad you responded to this thread.

Because this is the crux of the issue, now isn't it?

You say this:

quote:

If someone is loved, nurtured and able to express themselves fully there is just no way they would want to control or humiliate others or vice versa, when someone isn't then they create a false self, id say a lot of people do this, not just those who like bdsm, so in some ways trying bdsm is expressing yourself, but there's a better option.

I say, I am loved, nurtured and able to express myself fully, but being called a slut and being taken rough in a sexual way makes me hot. When the man gives me a command and gives me that "I mean business" look, I love saying "Yes Sir."

I can assure you, I am not in an abusive relationship in any way. We both love, honor, and nurture each other daily.

We also both like some kink in our relationship. Certainly some sadomasochism in the sex, certainly some power exchange in the actual relationship.

I have been to a shrink within the last year, and my dom has come with me, my therapist thinks we are one of the most loving couples she has ever seen. Not everyone's version of normal, perhaps, but a nice strong solid relationship.

So, how does this figure into your thinking?

(My therapist in not on the list of kink friendly, BTW, but she is very good and so far has dealt with all kink related issues in a very matter of fact way.)

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/4/2011 7:22:14 PM

KnightofMists

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Child birth was a bitch! So traumatic that I have blocked out any memory of it. Wonder if my sadistic tastes are some deep seeded subconscious drive as result of the trama of being hatched into this world?

Cause really.... This world is fucked up!!!! How much more traumatic can it get than that?

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/5/2011 1:45:47 AM

pdv99

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In answer the the OP - I had kinky stuff about D/s and gender roles running through my mind long before there was any trauma on my life. T was loved and nurtured as a child, and I feel loved and nurtured now - I happen to be loved and nurtured in a relationship which is female led, and in which we happen to enjoy sex whilst I'm restrained, and I demonstrate my submission thro some corporal "punishment". I get an adrenaline buzz from that and she gets off on the physical expression of my devotion to her. We are also good friends and there's a whole lot more in our relationship - most importantly there is trust, and there's never been any hint of abuse of that - unlike some vanilla relationships I've had.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/5/2011 3:48:19 AM

MrBukani

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Recent studies show that 50 to 70% of children who were abused in any way, especially violent ways, become violent and abusive themselves.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/5/2011 8:40:20 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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I have no idea if those stats are correct or not. But, what is your point as it relates to the discussion?

Could you expand on that please?

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/5/2011 11:55:13 AM

MrBukani

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If half of all kids who have been abused become abusers. It is taught to be rewarding. We live in a society that glorifies violence and dominance in consequence.. So its normal to have selfish desires and realize them. It's accepted to be greedy. Society promotes greed and violence. The result is traumatic for the victims. So maybe half of all perps are victims.

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/5/2011 12:30:08 PM

LillyBoPeep

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Are you trying to change the subject of the thread?
Or calling us perps? :p

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RE: Is the proclivity for BDSM a result of past trauma? - 12/5/2011 1:02:13 PM

MrBukani

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Im saying(edit suggesting) if you've had a damaging(edit 2 shouldasaid abusive or violent)traumatic experience you have a 1 in 2 chance to cause trauma.
Since a lot of bdsm is about abuse, maybe there are higher rates of people doing this being fucked up. Most will say here they are not fucked up. While most profiles bitch about people here being fucked up only askin for sex etc.A psycho wont cum on the forum saying he is totally fucked up wacko weird pervert. Or maybe sadism is not abusive? Maybe you like being abused...Maybe it's normal. lol

Butt assumptions are the mother of who?
just a thought...
No I am not changing the subject. I am turning it upside down from another perspective.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 12/5/2011 1:24:59 PM >

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