RE: Atheists have a PR problem

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tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 6:36:27 PM)
Imagine telling people you "worship" the earth, that you dont believe in a "formal god" and that there is no heaven or hell. I get it from both sides.

tj444 -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 6:50:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Since the only religious people I come into contact with seem pretty intolerant, except for my Mormon partner, I guess I should be more careful about announcing my atheism, even if the tolerant Northwest. I would not call myself an atheist or an agnostic, i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not.. As a result of what I learned at catechism, i decided as a child that God was no one I wanted to be in heaven with so if he exists or not is entirely irrelevent to me.. I posted a while ago, a question on if a religious person and a non-religious person could be in a successful relationship.. I agree with you, the vid is an eye-opener.. I dont recall any situations where my non-religionism affected me in any way but it could very well be a problem if i were to ever enter a relationship with someone religious.. (I do chat with someone who is religious and we have talked about meeting at some point).. i dunno... perhaps it would destined to be doomed.. [:(]

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 6:56:43 PM)
Religion in relationships is tricky. I had a couple of men that I was dating stop calling me after finding out I was an atheist. I know I would not be interested in being in a relationship with someone who was very religious. My SO now is not religious either, but he did tell me that he believed human beings were "tampered" with. When I asked him what he meant, he started talking about aliens. Surprised the hell out of me, since the man is a scientist and a pretty smart guy. Hopefully the topic won't come up again.

tj444 -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 7:32:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet My SO now is not religious either, but he did tell me that he believed human beings were "tampered" with. When I asked him what he meant, he started talking about aliens. Surprised the hell out of me, since the man is a scientist and a pretty smart guy. Hopefully the topic won't come up again. thats pretty funny (in a cute way).. yes, hopefully he wont try to "convert" you.. or perhaps he already has but you dont realize it.. (hmm.. remembering the Body Snatchers) [:D]

MissAsylum -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 7:33:44 PM)
[:D] Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything. Also, i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people. quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum I pretty much agree with Heather. Thinking like some of the more religious folks i know (don't take this as what i believe), i'll break down the thought process in simplistic terms. 1. A god or higher spiritual being shapes a believer's moral being. 2. Atheists do not believe in a god or higher spiritual being. 3. Atheists do not have morals 4. Atheists are not trustworthy. I can see where an Atheist could make the opposite argument. A Deist obtains any sense of morality from an external source, and therefore, lacks an internally developed morality. A Deist is de facto amoral. Deists generally believe that faith alone is all that is required to gain some sort of reward after death. Because they will be forgiven their transgressions by proclaiming their faith prior to death, they are able to act immorally and unethically. They will be absolved of their "sins". Since it is impossible to know whether a Deist is acting in good faith or are acting in bad faith because they believe their sins will be forgiven, they are untrustworthy. That's every bit as logical as the argument MissA hypothesized. [sm=seesaw.gif]

MissAsylum -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 7:53:42 PM)
Been there, done that, bought the t shirt, don't plan on going back for a visit. I've had a few relationships fail because i am jewish and the person's parent(s) had a problem with it. I've had relationships fail because i am not deeply rooted in Judaism (I am a proud Jew by birthright, but i have pretty fluid ideals....and i tend to think that the old testament is irrelevant. Tends to rub some Jews the wrong way. Who knew?). I dated an atheist pretty casually for a year, then when we decided to try for a more serious relationship, he began to randomly chastise anything religious i did because i offended him. They were stupid things as far as i was concerned. Saying "no thanks" if i said "bless you" when he sneezed. Sneering at me for blessing my food silently before i touched it and saying that i embarrassed him when i did it at a restaurant. He was an asshole who just so happened to be an atheist. I know for a fact that not all atheists are not like that, so i'm not saying anything otherwise. I just know that having very different religious views is bad for business for me when it comes to a relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Religion in relationships is tricky. I had a couple of men that I was dating stop calling me after finding out I was an atheist. I know I would not be interested in being in a relationship with someone who was very religious. My SO now is not religious either, but he did tell me that he believed human beings were "tampered" with. When I asked him what he meant, he started talking about aliens. Surprised the hell out of me, since the man is a scientist and a pretty smart guy. Hopefully the topic won't come up again.

BanthaSamantha -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 7:54:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not.. Chaotic Neutral.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 8:45:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum [:D] Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything. Also, i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people. I find it more profoundly moronic than funny. And I know you didn't originate the argument. You just put it into the form (more or less) of a hypothesis. It's just bizarre to me that there are people who "think" that way.

tweakabelle -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 9:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not.. Chaotic Neutral. How's about Astral Freefloater ...as in serenely, insouciantly floating above the fractious dispute happening below? Is this a situation where apathy can be positively virtuous? [:D]

tj444 -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 9:58:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not.. Chaotic Neutral. How's about Astral Freefloater ...as in serenely, insouciantly floating above the fractious dispute happening below? Is this a situation where apathy can be positively virtuous? [:D] well,.. I meant a generally recongnizable label.. one that didnt need a long drawn out explanation... [:D] I am not apathetic exactly.. it tore me up that God required belief in him to go to heaven, you could be a sister Teresa (without the sister bit) but all the good work you did helping people wouldnt get you into heaven unless you believed in him (but a serial killer that found God in jail could).. I just thought it was extremely unfair and rather egotisical for him to have that as a requirement (assuming he even exists for real).. Imo, being a good person should be the only requirement.. So I never really considered if he existed or not as i had already rejected him..

Kirata -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/4/2011 10:05:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything. i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people. Well I wouldn't make a habit of repeating it, if I were you. Just a heads-up. The argument presents Deism where at least Theism is demanded, Western monotheism in particular and in some respects Christianity specifically. K.

SpanishMatMaster -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 3:34:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not.. Chaotic Neutral. Seriously - "apatheist". This is the official label, and it is a kind of agnosticism which I consider particularly reasonable. "Why do you not use reason on the problem of God?" "Because I do not give a single shit of a thought about God on the first place". Reasonable.

MissAsylum -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 5:18:38 AM)
What difference would it make if I repeated it or not? I've already pissed off my family with it more than once, just from repeating back what they said. I've said one point, followed by "Correct?" after each one to ensure i am understanding them. When i repeat it back, they get upset. If people would get made for me using a point blank approach to breaking down their logic, let them. quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything. i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people. Well I wouldn't make a habit of repeating it, if I were you. Just a heads-up. The argument presents Deism where at least Theism is demanded, Western monotheism in particular and in some respects Christianity specifically. K.

vincentML -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 6:04:47 AM)
quote: Care to give me some examples of people basing decisions solely upon logic, with no emotional aspect whatsoever? It cannot be done Two examples: (1) in medical care, which if I recall correctly is your field, protocols are established to remove emotions from decisions as for example responding to a code blue; (2) when Captain Sullenberger ditched US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River, and countless other responses by people who relied successfully on training and protocol in times of stress. The logic was established before the need specifically to avoid emotion. Not the case when converting to a religion, I think. Religion is emotional. It is a matter for the "heart." Either you love/fear your god, or you don't. Nothing logical about it. The same can be said about falling in Love with another person. Totally irrational. [:D] Is it possible, tazzy, that you as an extremely logical thinker and meticulous researcher are not able/willing to imagine a decision made without reason?

vincentML -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 6:19:54 AM)
quote: How's about Astral Freefloater ...as in serenely, insouciantly floating above the fractious dispute happening below? IDK, tweak. Seems kinda boring [:)]

Kirata -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 9:20:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum What difference would it make if I repeated it or not? I've already pissed off my family with it more than once, just from repeating back what they said. I've said one point, followed by "Correct?" after each one to ensure i am understanding them. When i repeat it back, they get upset. If people would get made for me using a point blank approach to breaking down their logic, let them. Okay fine, I was just trying to give you a heads-up. Somebody doesn't know what Deism is and the argument is ridiculous when stated in terms of Deism. Other than that, have a nice day. [:D] K.

tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 11:11:10 AM)
quote: Two examples: (1) in medical care, which if I recall correctly is your field, protocols are established to remove emotions from decisions as for example responding to a code blue; (2) when Captain Sullenberger ditched US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River, and countless other responses by people who relied successfully on training and protocol in times of stress. In sorry, even in a code blue there are emotions that run extremely high. The desire for that patient to live, the fear that the patient will die. Which is why family members are not supposed to treat their own families. Yet it still happens. I participated in a code for a 2 year old drowning victim... and the emotions were extremely high. We lost that patient, there wasnt a single one of us that didnt cry. Sure, it sounds good that you believe emotions play no part in that scenario.... I prefer knowing they are a huge part of it. Just because they relied on training does not, in any way, mean emotions did not play a factor in their decisions. You havent proven your point with those examples. quote: Not the case when converting to a religion, I think. Religion is emotional. It is a matter for the "heart." Either you love/fear your god, or you don't. Nothing logical about it. The same can be said about falling in Love with another person. Totally irrational. Every decision we make is based, in some part, on emotions. Im still waiting on you to prove that wrong.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 11:29:59 AM)
quote: How do you "divorce" yourself from emotions to come up with the "irrational" decision many want this choice out to be? Want to try that again, in English this time? quote: According to Heather, someone is irrational because they are basing their decisions on emotions. No, that's according to reality, that's what the word means.

tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 11:31:30 AM)
It is in English, dear. Try to read, or ignore it as you usually do.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Atheists have a PR problem (12/5/2011 11:34:30 AM)
quote: It is in English, dear. No its not, at least not what is understood to be English outside of your mind.

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